Terror doc

[Wh1tetiger]

infantry. Those grenadiers who have now just sucks. Apologists allies achieved their cry that KCH with their type of "divine" aura removed and added to this misery that we have now. Of course, after reading the howl standing there, you should pay attention to the fact that most crying are the ones who play PVE. If there is no fuel to the doctrine of Terror just sucks. in a time when ALMOST any doctrine allies can do without fuel and has a UNIQUE infantry units. A long time ago, when the development of fashion were answered by Xalibur and Ruhr (remember this ?) He wanted to remake Terror doc in the doctrine of Propaganda. So maybe we have to change this doctrine ? For now it is so nerf that to play for this doctrine pain... As a matter of any doctrine Axis Luft ... Except...Everything else weak...p.s: I can run PVE players and start to scream, Axis taxis, but I'd like to tell you, try to play PvP and you will drastically change your mind. In the early stages to play Axis almost impossible. Allies due to spam infantry and shermans with he just

[Panzerblitz1]

I don't agree mate, before jumping like a Tiger on the hard work to balance the pvp game , please reconsider it and play more games, Terror is one of the toughest doctrine in Bk, bk is much more pvp balanced than ever, perfection will never exist in RTS games especially with hundreds of units involved, but the bk we have now is a real beaute, we also want to keep the forum "Zen" without ranting or tension, thx mate.
Welcome back

[Wh1tetiger]

I don't agree mate, before jumping like a Tiger on the hard work to balance the pvp game , please reconsider it and play more games, Terror is one of the toughest doctrine in Bk, bk is much more pvp balanced than ever, perfection will never exist in RTS games especially with hundreds of units involved, but the bk we have now is a real beaute, we also want to keep the forum "Zen" without ranting or tension, thx mate.
Welcome back

LOL. Tell me please, when you did played PvP Game in last time? Look how play USA players ) Only armor - spam shermans with He and Airbone Spam 101/.. this is good balance ,))))
and i told with to many players , they are agree with me, allies more op then axis. really, try will play in pvp and you will see what i mean///

[kwok]

Before talking about terror doc at all, I want to challenge some credibility points.

I have +1200 games, I've only ever met 3 "allied only players": hardstyle (no longer plays), a player I cannot remember his name, and shadowichigo. one of them, I hope he doesn't mind me calling him out, shadow, converted and said "axis is so much easier, I get lazier".
I've met countless "axis only players" and for the most part they're the strongest advocates for "allies are OP". Only a few I've seen who play allies and say allies are OP. In most of those cases, they don't even say allies are OP except that allies have some unfair aspect to them like the long range at halftrack or something.
Whoever these "most players agree" people are either need to speak up or play allies more before judging.

Question, no need to answer if you don't want: what is your ratio of what factions you play?
Mine is like 60 allies 40 axis, and I'd like to play more axis but I'm frequently blocked by "axis only players".

[Panzerblitz1]

I don't agree mate, before jumping like a Tiger on the hard work to balance the pvp game , please reconsider it and play more games, Terror is one of the toughest doctrine in Bk, bk is much more pvp balanced than ever, perfection will never exist in RTS games especially with hundreds of units involved, but the bk we have now is a real beaute, we also want to keep the forum "Zen" without ranting or tension, thx mate.
Welcome back

LOL. Tell me please, when you did played PvP Game in last time? Look how play USA players ) Only armor - spam shermans with He and Airbone Spam 101/.. this is good balance ,))))
and i told with to many players , they are agree with me, allies more op then axis. really, try will play in pvp and you will see what i mean///

WhiteTiger, you just create your account today and its your 5th ranting post here without seing the big picture, im telling you here quietly, stop that now, im trying to be cool, but if you continue on this path, you will have problems here.
You can discuss why you think Allies are OP etc...etc... for sure, but don't say allies are OP and axis is shit now because its absolutely not the case, and like i said, bk is much more balanced than ever, and we worked HARD for that.
We know each other for quite a long time now so please understand what im trying to say here Paciba!

[Krieger Blitzer]

SnowLeopard, is that you?
I have to disagree with you about KCH removal. Removing them was the correct decision in my humble opinion... But I saw your other post about the flame grenades and Airborne doctrine generally; as I could partly agree with you on this matter perhaps.. 101st squads are actually true champions with flame nades. Not to mention about airstrikes too, however, I always think of other ways to nerf the AB doc. Such as to restrict the Quad AA emplacements for now.. since that to me... They are probably more problematic than anything else! But that is a different topic anyway... Don't judge on balance so simply like this or things will be really complicated.

I have +1200 games, I've only ever met 3 "allied only players": hardstyle (no longer plays), a player I cannot remember his name, and shadowichigo.

I totally respect your experience. But I have much more games than that number.. and I can tell you plenty more names of players who can be considered allied only players; TonyVE, 6th Airborne Division, General Belisar, Antho and his mate, Conan, elpiojoxp, Dr.Teleport, and even Lionelus is considered Allied only player... He only plays RE doc most of his time.. and much more...

[Panzerblitz1]

101st squads are actually true champions with flame nades.

Well they are champions in front of which units? Pios? Panzergrenadiers? because in front of Heavy grenadier, Sturmtroops, Sturmpios, Fallsh, Gebirgs, SS troops etc... they don't stand a chance in close / mid distance...
Remove or nerf the AB 101st and it become useless, again.

[Krieger Blitzer]

101st squads are actually true champions with flame nades.

Well they are champions in front of which units? Pios? Panzergrenadiers? because in front of Heavy grenadier, Sturmtroops, Sturmpios, Fallsh, Gebirgs, SS troops etc... they don't stand a chance in close / mid distance...
Remove or nerf the AB 101st and it become useless, again.

Hmm, I am honestly not sure about this ^^
But i can say that they are actually superior to Stormtroops in someway. Storms indeed are tougher, however... They have less chances to survive whenever surrounded. I mean; AB units cost not much and they always keep reinforcing themselves from the air all the time!
Let's imagine this situation.. you have a 101st squad behind heavy cover... And I have a Storm squad behind cover as well. I have more firepower and generally better health, but you can keep reinforcing your causalities all the day along. At long term, this way you are actually the winner! Although my squad is basically stronger.
You also have airstrikes.. and supply drops.
Luft inf can also reinforce from the air, yes.. but they don't have flame nades.. and are much more expensive units. Which are extremely difficult to maintain! Not to mention that snipers are so lethal against Luft inf... Luft inf are just inflexible if I could say so...

Bottom line is, I think that having a squad which is able to use flame nades and also reinforce from the air at the same time.. is quite unfair to be honest. And if u take a look at Axis side, they have flame grenades in both Terror and SE docs.. but absolutely no inf can keep reinforcing themselves from the air on such doctrines obviously!

And when you build an AA Quad, things will only get worse for Axis opponents.. the AA Quads aren't easy to kill. And can be built early enough...
And even if you survive mid game, and then u later get a Tiger tank or so... Then most likely you won't survive airstrikes anyway! Sooner or later he will get u while you are not paying attention to your tanks.
AB doc is very comprehensive now... And before the AoE of the AB airstrikes were fixed as they deal more damage currently.. the Hellcats were also added to AB doc. Of which I believe is too much atm, specifically after already fixing the AB airstrikes I mean.
That's what I am thinking about it

[JimQwilleran]

101 without upgrades or vets die like rifles. If you play well, u won't let allie player vet up his airborne until they become invincible. That is a general rule of whole bk. It works exactly the same with any other kind of elite inf.

[Wurf]

I don't agree mate, before jumping like a Tiger on the hard work to balance the pvp game , please reconsider it and play more games, Terror is one of the toughest doctrine in Bk, bk is much more pvp balanced than ever, perfection will never exist in RTS games especially with hundreds of units involved, but the bk we have now is a real beaute, we also want to keep the forum "Zen" without ranting or tension, thx mate.
Welcome back

LOL. Tell me please, when you did played PvP Game in last time? Look how play USA players ) Only armor - spam shermans with He and Airbone Spam 101/.. this is good balance ,))))
and i told with to many players , they are agree with me, allies more op then axis. really, try will play in pvp and you will see what i mean///

WhiteTiger, you just create your account today and its your 5th ranting post here without seing the big picture, im telling you here quietly, stop that now, im trying to be cool, but if you continue on this path, you will have problems here.
You can discuss why you think Allies are OP etc...etc... for sure, but don't say allies are OP and axis is shit now because its absolutely not the case, and like i said, bk is much more balanced than ever, and we worked HARD for that.
We know each other for quite along time now so please understand what im trying to say here Paciba!

Y its true WhiteTiger, administrator is here god and you are only nil. Devilfish/AgentDunham can you tell a lot about this. pssst

I hope he doesn't mind me calling him out, shadow, converted and said "axis is so much easier, I get lazier".

- this can i say too,but about AB doc. All know,that I never much more play allies and never play AB doc,but after new patch when i seen what this doc can i learn it (maybe 1-2 months ) and how this learning happened all can see in my games and I think all feels it quite sharply...I wanted it just to show, how it is easy and lazy. And even like it so much, that is very fuuny for me

[Panzerblitz1]

Hmm, I am honestly not sure about this ^^
But i can say that they are actually superior to Stormtroops in someway.

Come on?! you're telling us that the axis don't have better units than AB 101st?

101 without upgrades or vets die like rifles. If you play well, u won't let allie player vet up his airborne until they become invincible. That is a general rule of whole bk. It works exactly the same with any other kind of elite inf.

Agreed.

To come back to the main subject, Terror isn't weak at all.

[Krieger Blitzer]

you're telling us that the axis don't have better units than AB 101st?

Not exactly. I am just saying that Axis don't have a unit that is as cheap as 101st which is also able to use flame grenades and reinforce themselves from the air at the same time!
And that gives Airborne a huge advantage.. at both, close range and long range operations. At long range you will just keep reinforcing your troops from the air behind cover... And whenever the opponent decides to bring his inf closer at you, then u will just throw flame nades at him.

I think flame nades generally should be more expensive for all sides (for AB doc, for SE doc and for Terror doc) OR it should just be restricted in some way. For example; available to use only for the 82nd airborne squads.. as well as the HQ AB squad. 101st squads probably shouldn't be able to use it! Not sure though. I am just throwing a suggestion here

And, if you don't mind me mentioning about this again.. then the Quad AA emplacements are the most problematic thing in AB doc as for the moment... I believe something should be really done about it. I don't know, but maybe less HP. Or only possible to build with AB engineers perhaps!

[Panzerblitz1]

Not exactly. I am just saying that Axis don't have a unit that is as cheap as 101st which is also able to use flame grenades and reinforce themselves from the air at the same time!

Normal, axis units are better than unveted AB 101st, the 101st cost more MP than Rifles (but when they come, they are not much better than Rifles), you need ammo to upgrade weapons, & their reinforce is more expensive than Rifles

[kwok]

I have +1200 games, I've only ever met 3 "allied only players": hardstyle (no longer plays), a player I cannot remember his name, and shadowichigo.

I totally respect your experience. But I have much more games than that number.. and I can tell you plenty more names of players who can be considered allied only players; TonyVE, 6th Airborne Division, General Belisar, Antho and his mate, Conan, elpiojoxp, Dr.Teleport, and even Lionelus is considered Allied only player... He only plays RE doc most of his time.. and much more...

Ahh it was tonyve I was thinking of. And you're right I forgot about antho, though he is peculiar because not only does he only play allies, but only USA and only 107mm mortars. Haha a really really annoying match up.
As for the rest, I think they've definitely played axis... I don't think I've ever had them ask to play allies only. At least Elpio doesn't because I use to play with him frequently since we are in the same time zone. The others I don't even know if they still play, but I definitely have seen them play axis.

Flame nades I think aren't just an AB problem, they're pretty bad overall. Micro tricks. But changes those is really tough because of how strong they are in the meta right now. That takes a lot of thought and an objective decision by devs on how they want gameplay to run.

[Wh1tetiger]

Before talking about terror doc at all, I want to challenge some credibility points.

I have +1200 games, I've only ever met 3 "allied only players": hardstyle (no longer plays), a player I cannot remember his name, and shadowichigo. one of them, I hope he doesn't mind me calling him out, shadow, converted and said "axis is so much easier, I get lazier".
I've met countless "axis only players" and for the most part they're the strongest advocates for "allies are OP". Only a few I've seen who play allies and say allies are OP. In most of those cases, they don't even say allies are OP except that allies have some unfair aspect to them like the long range at halftrack or something.
Whoever these "most players agree" people are either need to speak up or play allies more before judging.

Question, no need to answer if you don't want: what is your ratio of what factions you play?
Mine is like 60 allies 40 axis, and I'd like to play more axis but I'm frequently blocked by "axis only players".

On my old account had about 2000 games. And I played with very strong players: Ashmedai, SanZiom, Hardy, and more more more. Most of them no longer plays and it is because of balance. Their words play over Allies easier. Because spam is always easier. What doctrine am I playing ? For everything.
And I have personally seen, pak40 with AP rounds 4 shots did not break through Pershing, Croco. When the side 6 squads with Panzershreks did not cause any damage. And those moments are very much in contrast to op17, or Jakson, or Ahilles..to Argue meaningless offer to combat and once it becomes clear what I mean.

[Wh1tetiger]

I don't agree mate, before jumping like a Tiger on the hard work to balance the pvp game , please reconsider it and play more games, Terror is one of the toughest doctrine in Bk, bk is much more pvp balanced than ever, perfection will never exist in RTS games especially with hundreds of units involved, but the bk we have now is a real beaute, we also want to keep the forum "Zen" without ranting or tension, thx mate.
Welcome back

LOL. Tell me please, when you did played PvP Game in last time? Look how play USA players ) Only armor - spam shermans with He and Airbone Spam 101/.. this is good balance ,))))
and i told with to many players , they are agree with me, allies more op then axis. really, try will play in pvp and you will see what i mean///

WhiteTiger, you just create your account today and its your 5th ranting post here without seing the big picture, im telling you here quietly, stop that now, im trying to be cool, but if you continue on this path, you will have problems here.
You can discuss why you think Allies are OP etc...etc... for sure, but don't say allies are OP and axis is shit now because its absolutely not the case, and like i said, bk is much more balanced than ever, and we worked HARD for that.
We know each other for quite a long time now so please understand what im trying to say here Paciba!

Panzer, I am absolutely calm. I'm not saying that Axis is full of crap, I say that is not so good as you think. But it is much easier to shut the man's mouth and send it to ban, than to admit any mistakes isn't it ?

[Wh1tetiger]

you're telling us that the axis don't have better units than AB 101st?

Not exactly. I am just saying that Axis don't have a unit that is as cheap as 101st which is also able to use flame grenades and reinforce themselves from the air at the same time!
And that gives Airborne a huge advantage.. at both, close range and long range operations. At long range you will just keep reinforcing your troops from the air behind cover... And whenever the opponent decides to bring his inf closer at you, then u will just throw flame nades at him.

I think flame nades generally should be more expensive for all sides (for AB doc, for SE doc and for Terror doc) OR it should just be restricted in some way. For example; available to use only for the 82nd airborne squads.. as well as the HQ AB squad. 101st squads probably shouldn't be able to use it! Not sure though. I am just throwing a suggestion here

And, if you don't mind me mentioning about this again.. then the Quad AA emplacements are the most problematic thing in AB doc as for the moment... I believe something should be really done about it. I don't know, but maybe less HP. Or only possible to build with AB engineers perhaps!

That is what I say. This is especially important on large maps. And don't forget that they appear IMMEDIATELY with 1 vet lvl. good MS ? Flame granade pretty powerful weapons, the ability to build field staff.... A little ?

[Wh1tetiger]

Not exactly. I am just saying that Axis don't have a unit that is as cheap as 101st which is also able to use flame grenades and reinforce themselves from the air at the same time!

Normal, axis units are better than unveted AB 101st, the 101st cost more MP than Rifles (but when they come, they are not much better than Rifles), you need ammo to upgrade weapons, & their reinforce is more expensive than Rifles

In General, all clear, I'm closing this pointless argument, you absolutely do not want to see obvious things. Remember vet lvl 1 immediately after the airdrop (after studying of course). And you say they need to upgrade the weapons... And unless the Axis have all the normal weapons ? And it is not necessary to buy ?????

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Yep, you are right, axis are hell bad at the moment ( note, I think that axis are underpowered, not Allies OP ) thing is that allies have bunch of super cost effective stuff, and everything axis bring up can be countered by some cheap allied ability/unit like airstrikes, HE inf bashers and etc. In a well balanced pvp matchmeta is always the same for Germans - def till Panthers and walking Stuka, if you try to play agressively and push hard than you will get outnumbered really fast, because allies can afford high casualties, but not axis. As USA by min 40 I usually have crazy pop cap army with back up made by snipers and hidden tank hunters + continiues pushing with lots of armor or airborne units.

I don't agree that Terror is bad though, actually it's the best axis doc so far, though it's true that doc is really weak in early-mid stage, but if you managed to survive till Panther + Stuka + some vet grens with VT of 2 nebels doctrine can be super devastating, however I haven't seen that combo for ages, most of the time terror player gets his MP drained really fast.

[Wh1tetiger]

Yep, you are right, axis are hell bad at the moment ( note, I think that axis are underpowered, not Allies OP ) thing is that allies have bunch of super cost effective stuff, and everything axis bring up can be countered by some cheap allied ability/unit like airstrikes, HE inf bashers and etc. In a well balanced pvp matchmeta is always the same for Germans - def till Panthers and walking Stuka, if you try to play agressively and push hard than you will get outnumbered really fast, because allies can afford high casualties, but not axis. As USA by min 40 I usually have crazy pop cap army with back up made by snipers and hidden tank hunters + continiues pushing with lots of armor or airborne units.

I don't agree that Terror is bad though, actually it's the best axis doc so far, though it's true that doc is really weak in early-mid stage, but if you managed to survive till Panther + Stuka + some vet grens with VT of 2 nebels doctrine can be super devastating, however I haven't seen that combo for ages, most of the time terror player gets his MP drained really fast.

The truth is that You find it difficult to survive. this is the salt problem... Yes, even when you build one Panther have Allies already have an insane amount of pershings, SP, jakson, and a bunch of air strikes.... and the infantry sucks.. About the infantry from PE is just laugh it dying like flies... And everyone thinks it's good. everything is fine.

[Wh1tetiger]

Yes, there are two things in this doctrine, which is ABSOLUTELY not used and may be we replace this teach ? This (RadioSpy) intelligence - nobody uses it and it generally is not needed may make sense to replace something else ? The reduction of the cost Goliaph - the same thing. In General, I think this doctrine needs a little punching up, to take something that would enter the Ruhr in the doctrine of Propaganda.

[kwok]

I use radio spy... it's almost my first buy if I'm against a player I don't know... that's how you win and be aggressive as terror, with info. Building counters in response is so helpful, hints of when they tech up? When they built tank depot? Mortor pool? You can preemptively build AT. Jesus, so many blanket statements and claims with almost no examples on this forum lately and it hurts.

[Warhawks97]

I use radio spy... it's almost my first buy if I'm against a player I don't know... that's how you win and be aggressive as terror, with info. Building counters in response is so helpful, hints of when they tech up? When they built tank depot? Mortor pool? You can preemptively build AT. Jesus, so many blanket statements and claims with almost no examples on this forum lately and it hurts.

I was about to say.

Intelligence is in game but also in reality one of the most important things in war. Also when they build an emplacment you get the info. If you click on the info (left side screen) the camera switches right to the place where its build. That can help the team to coordinate arty..

And especially in the early stages it can help you. Preventing waste of res (like you see when an US player does not tier up fast you wont have a need to build up massive costly AT lines....

Srsly. Or when you just knocked out a costly unit like firefily or jacks and if you kept an eye on the incoming intelligence you might see whether the enemie quickly replaced it (you then prevent rushing in with panther) or not (then you can attack more safety).... Later on you might lose the overview (of what is build and lost) but in early stages when game is is more clear as well as the estimated ressources of the opponent it can be a huge help to get the right stuff at the right time...

[Panzerblitz1]

Yes, there are two things in this doctrine, which is ABSOLUTELY not used and may be we replace this teach ? This (RadioSpy) intelligence - nobody uses it and it generally is not needed may make sense to replace something else ? The reduction of the cost Goliaph - the same thing. In General, I think this doctrine needs a little punching up, to take something that would enter the Ruhr in the doctrine of Propaganda.

I think the problem maybe is the way you used to play axis before isn't now the best way to win, Bk changed a lot, but in the good direction, i think its more that, rather having an OP allies, if i may say.
And recon units are the first going into battle now, its vital, yes KCH are gone for good, because it was silly, and yes the SAS is still strong but also for a good reason.

[kwok]

Classic example of bk blindness, only using what you want to use instead of what is available. So many powerful tools available but never used. I hate to reveal this, but did you know with inspired assault you can take down the allegedly OP AA emplacement with two AT teams within 7ish seconds? The damage boost and rof increase... but you don't hear me complaining "BUFF EMPLACEMENT HEALTH AND NERF PANZERSHRECKS, TOTALLY UNREALISTIC TO HAVE AT CLEAR EMPLACEMENTS SO FAST." No, you know why? Because the counter to THAT is to spend maybe 30 my putting mines right outside my AA guns. So you see, there are solutions to everything if you can think just outside of the typical units you use.

Likewise if you truly face so much trouble against allies... I dunno maybe use the 30 other axis vehicles that just never get used. Did you know PE has a little halftrack that can fire a rocket that oneshots a full health (not overrepped) jumbo? And it has a lower cooldown and cost than those "OP" raf air strikes, available for all doctrines, and is available at like t2 if I remember right.