Let's talk about Airbone Doc

Talk about CoH1 or BKMOD1 in general.
Wh1tetiger
Posts: 28
Joined: 19 Dec 2016, 18:29

Let's talk about Airbone Doc

Postby Wh1tetiger » 19 Dec 2016, 18:41

Well, hello everyone who remembers me. I had a pretty big break in the game. Now is the time lets play, and having played about 50-60 games (all games ONLY PVP) would Like to discuss with you an airbone Doc. Now the realities of the game are such that an airbone doc does the usual spam 101 and throws all flame grenade. For comparison Luft have peoneers not even the most normal grenades. The number of units 101 as well as I understand it is not limited. Stupid spam 101 and all. no tactics nothing. Maybe we will limit 101 number of units ? Or remove the ability to use flame granade ? Because in the current situation, the balance is clearly crooked.

JimQwilleran
Posts: 1107
Joined: 07 Jan 2015, 15:05

Re: Let's talk about Airbone Doc

Postby JimQwilleran » 19 Dec 2016, 21:07

What would be the limit on 101? 4 squads, 5 squads?

kwok
Posts: 1299
Joined: 29 Mar 2015, 05:22

Re: Let's talk about Airbone Doc

Postby kwok » 20 Dec 2016, 07:15

Now I have a LOT to say about this. I waited to the end of my day to write so I could have time to write it all out.

It's funny how within a few patches where airborne was rarely touched, made some small fixes on bugs and unreliable performances, and even some nerfs, we get posts from "airborne is the most useless doc" to "airborne is the most OP doc."

I guess it's time I fully explain why I always said AB was secretly the strongest doctrine even back when everyone said it was the worst. Now all these posts about AB being OP... and quite frankly I think every assessment is just wrong. I made some side posts and hinted about AB and its capabilities scattered around but here I go directly saying why AB is OP.

AB is OP not because 101 have no limit, not because you can build quads from T1, not because the flame grenades (okay maybe a little, flame grenades are a dirty trick for micro heavy players), not because of armored jeep (no one has said this YET but if this circle jerking about OP airborne continues it will come up.... a tier 1.5 armored car for USA?). I will tell you what's wrong with airborne, it suffers hypocrisy. It's a non-specialized doc amongst a faction designed for specialized play against players who demographically rarely learn to adapt. AB has strong off map abilities, medium-strong inf, and maybe no heavy tanks but why did it ever need the hellcat? AB also has on map light artillery, off map mortar bombardment, activateable buff abilties (though I don't know how many players use it), and the ability to pretty much drop a base anywhere for a cheap price. What AB is good at is countering with the tradeoff of really big decision points and a lot of micro needed. A really good player will dominate with AB. A really bad player will get crushed as AB. Does this make AB OP or just really rewarding?

The thing wrong with AB is that it is designed so far away from every other doctrines out there and just seemed to be packed with "things that are cool". But that doesn't make them easy to play, it just makes they super dangerous in the right hands. This makes them either the most fun or most frustrating to play as. This also means that AB will always rock back and forth between overpowered and underpowered because players rarely adapt in this game, instead they come to forum to try to lobby their playstyle. AB is such a flexible doctrine that it depends more on the meta than actual balances. In my opinion, the only solution to "balancing" airborne is by essentially making it less fun. Is that a tradeoff devs want to make? Is that a tradeoff players want to take? Cuz this shit won't be balanced ever with the way the community acts whenever they lose a game.

Wh1tetiger
Posts: 28
Joined: 19 Dec 2016, 18:29

Re: Let's talk about Airbone Doc

Postby Wh1tetiger » 20 Dec 2016, 19:43

kwok wrote:Now I have a LOT to say about this. I waited to the end of my day to write so I could have time to write it all out.

It's funny how within a few patches where airborne was rarely touched, made some small fixes on bugs and unreliable performances, and even some nerfs, we get posts from "airborne is the most useless doc" to "airborne is the most OP doc."

I guess it's time I fully explain why I always said AB was secretly the strongest doctrine even back when everyone said it was the worst. Now all these posts about AB being OP... and quite frankly I think every assessment is just wrong. I made some side posts and hinted about AB and its capabilities scattered around but here I go directly saying why AB is OP.

AB is OP not because 101 have no limit, not because you can build quads from T1, not because the flame grenades (okay maybe a little, flame grenades are a dirty trick for micro heavy players), not because of armored jeep (no one has said this YET but if this circle jerking about OP airborne continues it will come up.... a tier 1.5 armored car for USA?). I will tell you what's wrong with airborne, it suffers hypocrisy. It's a non-specialized doc amongst a faction designed for specialized play against players who demographically rarely learn to adapt. AB has strong off map abilities, medium-strong inf, and maybe no heavy tanks but why did it ever need the hellcat? AB also has on map light artillery, off map mortar bombardment, activateable buff abilties (though I don't know how many players use it), and the ability to pretty much drop a base anywhere for a cheap price. What AB is good at is countering with the tradeoff of really big decision points and a lot of micro needed. A really good player will dominate with AB. A really bad player will get crushed as AB. Does this make AB OP or just really rewarding?

The thing wrong with AB is that it is designed so far away from every other doctrines out there and just seemed to be packed with "things that are cool". But that doesn't make them easy to play, it just makes they super dangerous in the right hands. This makes them either the most fun or most frustrating to play as. This also means that AB will always rock back and forth between overpowered and underpowered because players rarely adapt in this game, instead they come to forum to try to lobby their playstyle. AB is such a flexible doctrine that it depends more on the meta than actual balances. In my opinion, the only solution to "balancing" airborne is by essentially making it less fun. Is that a tradeoff devs want to make? Is that a tradeoff players want to take? Cuz this shit won't be balanced ever with the way the community acts whenever they lose a game.

You're forgetting that they get then from lvl 1 vet. Flame granade. and they are cheap and can be spam .... On large maps is a very important factor from the point of view of tactics, I hope no need to explain why ? I believe that if you do not limit their count units, you have to remove them to use a flame granade.

Wh1tetiger
Posts: 28
Joined: 19 Dec 2016, 18:29

Re: Let's talk about Airbone Doc

Postby Wh1tetiger » 20 Dec 2016, 19:44

JimQwilleran wrote:What would be the limit on 101? 4 squads, 5 squads?

3-4 i think ok and delete flame granade./

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Sukin-kot (SVT)
Posts: 854
Joined: 09 Dec 2014, 08:36
Location: Ekaterinburg, Russia

Re: Let's talk about Airbone Doc

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 20 Dec 2016, 20:01

101s AB are actually limited to 4 squads xD

Wh1tetiger
Posts: 28
Joined: 19 Dec 2016, 18:29

Re: Let's talk about Airbone Doc

Postby Wh1tetiger » 20 Dec 2016, 20:15

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:101s AB are actually limited to 4 squads xD

Hmmmm... Really,in last game i get 5 squads .... maybe bug ?

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Tiger1996
Posts: 3795
Joined: 06 Dec 2014, 15:53
Location: I'm from Egypt, but I live in Qatar.
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Re: Let's talk about Airbone Doc

Postby Tiger1996 » 20 Dec 2016, 20:20

Nope, there is noway possible you could get more than 4 101st squads... Nami actually got you with that question :D Smart one :P

Anyway, I still agree with some of your points.. yet; not everything you say. But please don't double post ^^ You can always edit! :)

Wh1tetiger
Posts: 28
Joined: 19 Dec 2016, 18:29

Re: Let's talk about Airbone Doc

Postby Wh1tetiger » 20 Dec 2016, 20:26

Tiger1996 wrote:Nope, there is noway possible you could get more than 4 101st squads... Nami actually got you with that question :D Smart one :P

Anyway, I still agree with some of your points.. yet; not everything you say. But please don't double post ^^ You can always edit! :)

Well ok. Now we must waiting what answer dev team... but i think they answer - with 101 all ok and need buf.... because all cry what 101 - suxx////

JimQwilleran
Posts: 1107
Joined: 07 Jan 2015, 15:05

Re: Let's talk about Airbone Doc

Postby JimQwilleran » 21 Dec 2016, 02:39

I think that kwok says really wise words recently. I also don't think that AB usefullness lies in any particular unit or ability. It's the doc's generall flexibility in countering various threats that makes it so special. And recently it became "so OP" together with plane bombs buff I think.

kwok
Posts: 1299
Joined: 29 Mar 2015, 05:22

Re: Let's talk about Airbone Doc

Postby kwok » 21 Dec 2016, 02:52

The bombing run "buff" was a fix more than anything. AB was always OP in its own special way just like how terror is OP. Terror doc had the same: "OMG SO OP" to "SHIT WORTHLESS" cycles. Right now terror is in the shit worthless cycle and airborne is OP cycle that's all.

People either learn to play or this will never be balanced


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