HE shells agains "soft" vehicles

[XAHTEP39]

Hello, everyone !
I want to discuss about damage of HE shells (basically medium (75-76-mm) and large (88-90-128) calibers).
At strat I show several examples in my past games:

Spoiler: show

1) The "stubby" Pz.IV in HE-mode break through the forntline and meets the mortair HT, which want run away. Pz.IV shoot 3 times, but Halftruck didn`t die, there was ~ 1/4 of hp, and Pz.IV was destroyed by AT-unit. So the Halftrucks need ~4 hits by medium HE-shells to blow out.
2) The 88-mm Flak 36 emplacement in HE-mode fire infantry. Bluddenly the enemy M18 Hellcat try to change position in sector of 88 Flak 36. Flak 36 opens fire M18 Hellcat, there was 2 hits, but Hellcat run away with ~1/4...1/3 hp. So the Hellcat needs ~3 hits by large HE-shells to blow out.
It is a very bright situation , which shows mechanic of HE againt not armored vehicles. Very often situations with unsuccessful HE-fire against light tanks.

I divide light-armored (i adduces only front armor) vehicles on:
a) "soft" vehicles with armor <20-mm : all types of HTs, scout cars, M18 Hellcat, M8 Greyhound, M20 Command car, Nashorn, Marder I/III, Gepard, Tetrarch, Bren Carrier, Daimler Armored Car...
b) very light-armor vehicles with armor 20...30-mm : some heavy recon cars (Pumas, Staghound), Chaffee, Mobelwagen & Wirbel/Ost-wind (good hull, but weak turret)...

I sure, that medium and large HE-shells must to make more damage against this soft vehicles (majority of soft vehicles have open cabin).
For example, medium HE-shells require 1, rarely 2 hits against "soft" and 2, rarely 3 hits against "very light-armor" vehicles; large HE-shells reguire 1 hit against "soft" and 1, rarely 2 hits against "very light-armor" vehicles.

Thanks for attention!

[JimQwilleran]

Yes, I agree. With recent changes made to HE/AP it makes sense to adjust it a bit. Also it's all correct and sensible regarding realism and balance. The only thing that I would like to point out is that I think that Staghound is not <20mm armor. Isn't it even 45mm of armour?

[XAHTEP39]

Of course, M6 Staghound has strong turret, but weak hull, so I replace it to b) "very light-armor" vehicles, like as Pumas.

[JimQwilleran]

I really tried to find detailed description of Staghound's armor, but I can't. Also I don't know if there is any difference between "T17" Staghound and "M6" Staghound, how you call it.
Can you give me your source, I am very interested in this topic.

[Jalis]

T17e1

max armour, frontal upper glacis 22 mm @ 30 degres from vertical type rolled homogeneous steel

Turret front 44.5 mm @ 45 degres
gun shield/mantlet 1 inch, so 2.54 mm type cast homogeneous steel

nota to have see a staghound sloped armour is true but not completly accurate definition, I would more likely say sloped and rounded armour.

below greyhound and staghound, and greyhound turret from an other angle. Source ; personal collection. these vehicles are at Saumur Museum, France.

PS; you can click to enlarge, I reduced size to make it 1080 standard.

[JimQwilleran]

Well, wow! Thx, that's nice! In my country the only WW2 vehicles we have in museums are soviet tanks xD.

I thought that greyhound's turret was bigger xD.

[XAHTEP39]

I really tried to find detailed description of Staghound's armor, but I can't. Also I don't know if there is any difference between "T17" Staghound and "M6" Staghound, how you call it.
Can you give me your source, I am very interested in this topic.

There is armor description of Staghound in the russian version of wikipedia - https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Стегхаунд ... автомобиль)
It is a not big "scientific" source, but short information about Staghound is sufficient.

Spoiler: show

Armor type:
rolled steel and cast homogeneous
Front hull (up), мм/degr.
22 / 30°
Front hull (down), мм/degr.
16 / 45°
Side hull, мм/degr.
19 / 13°
Back hull, мм/degr.
10 / 30°
Bottom, мм
6—13
Roof hull, мм
13
Front turret, мм/degr.
45 / 45°
Muzzle, мм/degr.
25 / 0…52°
Side turret, мм/degr.
32 / 22°
Back turret, мм/degr.
32 / 12°
Roof turret, мм
13

About "T17E1" , "M6" , "Staghound":
T17E1 is a name of future armored car on the stage of development,

Spoiler: show

NOTE: T17 - is a unsuccessful project of other armored car, similar as M8 Greyound (6 wheels),

M6 is a name of ready armared car, which adopted for US Army (but US Army choose M8 Grethound, so all Stahgounds made "lend-leased" to Britain),
Staghound is a name of ready armored, which adopted for Britain Army (... mk.I, mk.II and mk.III)

[JimQwilleran]

Thanks, I suspected that you have some more detailed source in Russian .

[Jalis]

I thought that greyhound's turret was bigger xD.

Greyhound is a 4 crews members vehicles. Two are in the turret. Turret traverse was manual / hand crank.

Staghound was a 5 crews, 3 in the turret that had an hydraulic traverse system. However result was the staghound was almost twice heavier than the greyhound.