17 pounder

Talk about CoH1 or BKMOD1 in general.
Kasbah
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17 pounder

Postby Kasbah » 23 Apr 2016, 23:11

Hi,

Did you buff the 17 pounder emplacement? I lost one jagdtiger vet 3 almost full health on one shot. It's not bad luck because 30 min later I lost a second one the same way (3/4 health)

Thx

JimQwilleran
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Re: 17 pounder

Postby JimQwilleran » 24 Apr 2016, 00:36

I don't think that they touched it. It's was just *"*"'*__--==Bad Luck==--__*"*"* dude.

Some more interesting thing was that I saw today Staghound bouncing 75mm pak :D.

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Tiger1996
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Re: 17 pounder

Postby Tiger1996 » 24 Apr 2016, 02:16

Believe it or not, but I have once seen a normal sandbagged 76 Sherman bouncing off a KT's 88!!! No joke I swear :lol: However that I guess it's important to mention too that it was actually an ALRS shot at max range though.. which means from a range of 100... Yet; it was really surprising enough to see.
I have also seen a Tiger as well bouncing off four 17P shells at medium range in a row :P

Everything can happen in Bk :D Sometimes I really hate these kind of random moments whenever rarely it manages to happen while completely turning out the tide of the battle. But on the other hand I think it's still quite realistic that not always the same must happen all the time.. as that sometimes according to reality, u could never really expect what is exactly going to happen certainly each single time anyhow.

kwok
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Re: 17 pounder

Postby kwok » 24 Apr 2016, 05:11

The best players are the ones who know how to hedge against rng.

Kasbah
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Re: 17 pounder

Postby Kasbah » 24 Apr 2016, 10:38

yeah so next time I can expect an mg destroying a Tiger, or a jeep blowing off a Pershing, because everything can happen and it's very realistic
Last edited by Kasbah on 24 Apr 2016, 11:50, edited 1 time in total.

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MarKr
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Re: 17 pounder

Postby MarKr » 24 Apr 2016, 10:51

Hi,

no, effectivity of 17 pounders against Jagdtiegers has not been changed. Actually in last two years I don't remember that we would change effectivity of 17 pounders against anything.

Must have been extremely bad luck. The gun has 8,8% chance to penetrate JT at max range. It deals 450-650 damage and JT has 1200HP. I've only had a quick look but I haven't seen anything that would say it was more than lucky shot.
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Kasbah
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Re: 17 pounder

Postby Kasbah » 24 Apr 2016, 11:49

Thanks a lot for your answer and your time Markr. It was indeed long range.

Not to question your awesome work which I enjoy a lot and I thank you for, but if this can happen -however not frequently-, just like the examples the other members are stating in this post, I would like to ask if the random factor is not sometimes a little bit too present.

Thx

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XAHTEP39
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Re: 17 pounder

Postby XAHTEP39 » 24 Apr 2016, 17:10

It is "lucky shot" - 1 to 100 shots)).
From other hand, 17-pounder emplacement on max range double bounced off side armor of my Hetzer)))
Sukin showed me video, where captured 50-mm Pak 38 "one-shot" full-hp Tiger-Ace on long range - 1 to 1000 shot :D

Kasbah
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Re: 17 pounder

Postby Kasbah » 24 Apr 2016, 17:36

that's why I'm talking about, it seems random factor is way too present...

kwok
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Re: 17 pounder

Postby kwok » 24 Apr 2016, 19:16

that's like saying there's too much randomness in dice.

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MarKr
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Re: 17 pounder

Postby MarKr » 24 Apr 2016, 20:17

@Kabash - one more thing comes to my mind: Are you sure it was frontal hit? Keep in mind that if the vehicle does not face exactely towards the emplacement then even from the front "rear" hit is possible...given the size of Jagdtieger I'd say it is very likely the case.

I've showed this before but just to be sure everybody knows what I'm talking about: rear penetration is explained here "http://companyofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Penetration"
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Wolf
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Re: 17 pounder

Postby Wolf » 24 Apr 2016, 20:35

And were AP rounds loaded? I am not sure if that percentage was with or without.
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Kasbah
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Re: 17 pounder

Postby Kasbah » 24 Apr 2016, 21:27

It may be possible it was 3/4 front hit and not purely front and thus considered by the game engine like a rear hit, yes. It's just that 2 times in half an hour and in the same game is pretty amazing and never happened to me, even with AP rounds loaded (I'm sure they were, otherwise it would have been impossible)

In fact this post is not only about this precise situation but also about these random and weird things some members stated happening from time to time. I know nothing about coding so how can there be a random factor in a game made essentially by maths and precise values?

Just asking, I'm interested

thx to both!

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Wolf
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Re: 17 pounder

Postby Wolf » 24 Apr 2016, 21:30

I am not sure if I understand the question - how can there be a random factor?
Well if you have like 40% chance to hit something, you always have to roll something between 0 and 100%, otherwise it would either always penetrate or always not penetrate. Same it is with 8.8%. That chance is that random factor.
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Kasbah
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Re: 17 pounder

Postby Kasbah » 24 Apr 2016, 21:32

Yes, that was the question, thanks for your answer. We already debated it in this post in fact: http://forum.bkmod.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=400&p=2771&hilit=algorithms#p2771

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Devilfish
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Re: 17 pounder

Postby Devilfish » 25 Apr 2016, 19:48

Kasbah wrote:It may be possible it was 3/4 front hit and not purely front and thus considered by the game engine like a rear hit, yes. It's just that 2 times in half an hour and in the same game is pretty amazing and never happened to me, even with AP rounds loaded (I'm sure they were, otherwise it would have been impossible)

In fact this post is not only about this precise situation but also about these random and weird things some members stated happening from time to time. I know nothing about coding so how can there be a random factor in a game made essentially by maths and precise values?

What do you mean by 3/4 frontal hit? If you check out the picture in the link Mark has posted, you would see that basically tank is a box in coh, if you hit the front side, front half of the left side and front half of the right side, it is considered a frontal hit, otherwise rear hit. So if this is the case, your JgT wasn't actually killed frontally, at least not technically. I'm pretty sure 17p doesn't need sabot rounds for rear JgT armor.

Usually when we are talking about penetration luck or chances in BK, we mean an actual probability of a certain gun penetrating certain tank (front/rear). E.g. Sherman will penetrate Tiger frontally with 0.2 probability and from rear with 0.85 probability. So if you pen frontally, you can say it was "luck" because you had only 20% chance of that happening. Yet often it might seem you are facing with Tiger frontally, or even angling the armor, which will cause a shell to hit a second half of the side armor, scoring "rear hit", and the penetration won't be a luck.

Now question stands, is it actually random where the shell hit the tank? Does auto targeting always aim for the center of the "box" and there it goes? Or is there some RNG dispersion involved? In theory, you might be able to use direct fire, and intentionally aim for the exposed rear side armor and penetrate even big axis cats easily, since angle doesn't matter in coh.
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