Unifying handheld AT

Talk about CoH1 or BKMOD1 in general.
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Tiger1996
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Unifying handheld AT

Postby Tiger1996 » 08 Jun 2019, 02:33

You see; this is not in the balance section, because it's not really a balance issue.. but rather a request for standardization.
And yes, we talked about this in the past.. but i just had a discussion with Kwok regarding this in-game and he advice me to post about it again...

- Storms:
After the vet unlock, they can crawl with Zooka, PIAT, and RL if they happen to pick them from the ground for free.. but can't crawl with Shreck although it's something they purchase!

Now, someone might say.. it might be because the Shreck is too heavy unlike the others?
- The answer:
SE doc Demo squad can crawl with Shrecks if they happened to pick them from the ground.
Thus, the argument of Shrecks being "too heavy or too big in size" doesn't really work...

And actually, not sure on this one though.. but I think even Leader Storm, Demo Storm and Suppression Storm squads can crawl with Shreck.
Only the regular Storms can't, but as I said... Not sure on this one, but I am certain about the SE doc Demo squad.. they can do it for sure.


So, now we have 2 solutions in order to standardize that:
- Either allow Storms to crawl with Shrecks too.
- Or disallow SE doc Demo squad from crawling with it... So, there won't be any squad that can crawl with Shrecks.

My recommendation:

The first solution is better, because Storms pay command points to crawl, and they also pay for the Shreck upgrade.. not to mention Allies have many squads that can crawl with handheld AT weapons on the other hand... Example; infiltration Rangers and Marine Commandos.

So, i just can't see how it would be a problem if Storms can crawl with Shrecks too. Needless to say, Shrecks take 2s aim time just like all other handheld AT weapons, Shermans with HE rounds will eat them anyways...

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Viper
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Re: Unifying handheld AT

Postby Viper » 08 Jun 2019, 06:33

Tiger1996 wrote:- Or disallow SE doc Demo squad from crawling with it... So, there won't be any squad that can crawl with Shrecks.

this should mean if marine commandos grab shrecks they will not crawl too......

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Black Panther
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Re: Unifying handheld AT

Postby Black Panther » 08 Jun 2019, 07:59

Yes, second option would be nice.
But anyway, Shrek is just the top handled AT, comparing to the others...
You won't need any investments in doctrine vehicles, when you can just do Terror 2.0 style and spamming with double-squad shrek 'nd camo

Piats and bazookas, on another hand having problems with penetrating even Panzer H and if you want to bring realism here, let's buff them to be able to penetrate heavy tanks with more chances. They cost the same as Pzshreks, same ammo, same muni, so why not?

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Warhawks97
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Re: Unifying handheld AT

Postby Warhawks97 » 08 Jun 2019, 13:49

The leader squad cant crawl with schrecks. Thats why i never picked any with them. I only picked lmg 34/42 with my leader squad.

I would remove any crawl with schrecks bc this thing is so powerfull with high damage and guranteed pen against almost all allied tanks or with very high chances at least.

Bazookas are more an "add on" and often needs support from guns to take out a target or you have to field them in numbers. Its a huge difference to either have a squad with a schreck or a zook popping up next to you.


And the role of stormtroopers (heavy assault inf) and infiltration rangers is different. One is more brute force with weapons also effective till mid and long range, the other pure close combat.

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Tiger1996
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Re: Unifying handheld AT

Postby Tiger1996 » 08 Jun 2019, 15:10

Guys, i want to show you something:
https://youtu.be/tcDDPNzUBNY?t=6930

This link should directly take you to minute 01:55:30 during a 2 hours game that I have played in the past... Now, check out how both my SE doc Demo squads with 1 Shreck each have actually failed to kill a single HE Sherman from ambush, despite hitting it 4 times...

So, for me.. this whole argument of "Shreck is much better than Bazooka" doesn't really sound compelling, as I'm afraid it might be even a little biased kind of an argument.. because also by the way, Shrecks and Zookas don't cost the same, Shrecks are definitely more expensive already!

Combat wise, Shrecks aren't any different from Bazookas in my opinion.. and PIATs are just unique as they can shoot above obstacles, so they can hit you from where you can't hit them back.. not to mention they have very high chances of causing immobilization, and sometimes that's more than enough.

Thus, i don't see any problems with the first option or the first solution...

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Black Panther
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Re: Unifying handheld AT

Postby Black Panther » 08 Jun 2019, 17:27

Tiger1996 wrote:Guys, i want to show you something:
https://youtu.be/tcDDPNzUBNY?t=6930

This link should directly take you to minute 01:55:30 during a 2 hours game that I have played in the past... Now, check out how both my SE doc Demo squads with 1 Shreck each have actually failed to kill a single HE Sherman from ambush, despite hitting it 4 times...

So, for me.. this whole argument of "Shreck is much better than Bazooka" doesn't really sound compelling, as I'm afraid it might be even a little biased kind of an argument.. because also by the way, Shrecks and Zookas don't cost the same, Shrecks are definitely more expensive already!

Combat wise, Shrecks aren't any different from Bazookas in my opinion.. and PIATs are just unique as they can shoot above obstacles, so they can hit you from where you can't hit them back.. not to mention they have very high chances of causing immobilization, and sometimes that's more than enough.

Thus, i don't see any problems with the first option or the first solution...

So piats can shoot above, bazooka can too?
On the vid, sherman had overrep bonus, which is not a factor in next patch anymore (If I'm right)

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Warhawks97
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Re: Unifying handheld AT

Postby Warhawks97 » 08 Jun 2019, 19:54

Tiger1996 wrote:
This link should directly take you to minute 01:55:30 during a 2 hours game that I have played in the past... Now, check out how both my SE doc Demo squads with 1 Shreck each have actually failed to kill a single HE Sherman from ambush, despite hitting it 4 times...


that is due to bad luck crit rolls.
And it was overrep+ sandbags which give massive HP bonus. Overrep will be gone or is gone in beta to prevent this from happening too often.

So, for me.. this whole argument of "Shreck is much better than Bazooka" doesn't really sound compelling, as I'm afraid it might be even a little biased kind of an argument.. because also by the way, Shrecks and Zookas don't cost the same, Shrecks are definitely more expensive already!
Combat wise, Shrecks aren't any different from Bazookas in my opinion.. and PIATs are just unique as they can shoot above obstacles, so they can hit you from where you can't hit them back.. not to mention they have very high chances of causing immobilization, and sometimes that's more than enough.


Its not. The pen values are much better for schreck against any given target. So is the damage and so is even the rate of fire.
And you get schrecks all over the place among basic inf.
The cost difference is small. Yes, US inf doc can make them cheaper but still.

kwok
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Re: Unifying handheld AT

Postby kwok » 11 Jun 2019, 18:07

This has been read by devs. Just saying that in case people think just because none responded that it was ignored. That's all; keep discussing among yourselves.


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