The issue of "unfair" crawl
Posted: 21 Jun 2017, 21:47
I would like to address this here separately instead of coming back to it in every topic that at least remotely touches anything around BK doc...or Axis.
"crawl" of Storm troopers. One user likes to bring up this topic when almost whatever is discussed and swing with this "argument" left and right. The argument is (or "are" because this particular member used this thing to argument more points):
1) Storms don't have crawl by default and need to unlock it while now Infiltration rangers and Marine commandos have it without any unlock and thus it is "unfair"
2) Storms cannot crawl when they upgrade AT weapon while others can crawl with AT, so it is unfair to Storms
etc.
These points might seem valid if you strictly compare two units against each other but in the end even this argument falls short on some other aspects. If we want to compare units (really, don't do it, but for the sake of making point let's try it for this once) then you cannot simply focus on one aspect they have in common (in this case the ability to "crawl") but completely neglect other aspects and then demand some unification. An extreme example (and I intentionally say EXTREME example, so don't even try, you, particular member of this forum, to catch on this and say it is completely different) would be comparing Reg5 and AB engineers - they have in common that they are air-dropped and can reinforece anywhere but what they don't have in common is their role, price, possible weapon upgrades and in general the overall possibilities of their doctrines. So saying "Reg5 are very decent combat units, why AB engineers suck so much?" makes obviously no sense.
Back to the "crawl" thing - in its basic principle this example is the same as comparing Storms and Infiltration rangers, only these are not so obvious because they are not such an extreme.
Storms:
Cost 400MP (from HT; 450MP with command ability)
Each soldier has 95HP
Reinforcement cost is 38MP
They come equipped with Kar98 which have probably best stats of all Kar98 versions (except for sniper) and even better than Enfields of CW Tommies.
You can equip them with weapons:
MG42 good for "mid-long range" fire support squad
Stg44s good for close-mid range combat
So they can excel at both close and range fights.
Panzerschreck adds protection against vehicles (though after adding aim time, less effective than before)
With Storm training you get Vet1 automatically and Storms take 25% less damage from any source and get the ability to crawl.
You can have them after 2 CP - you can spawn them in empty buildings which enables you to get a Storms squad near the place where fighting is happening and thus get quickly an infantry unit into the fight (it is NOT an infiltration ability).
You can have 3 squads + Suppression squad + command squad + demo squad.
Infiltration rangers:
Cost 400MP (one unit comes with Ranger truck for 500MP)
Each soldier has 80HP
Reinforcement cost is 45MP
They come equipped with 5xThompsons and one upgraded bazooka. So you save some ammo on upgrades, however they are only effective at close range and at mid-long range they suck.
You can equip them with weapons:
None - only if you manage to pick up some dropped weapon.
With Ranger training they gain +10 max HP and gain XP faster by 50%.
You can have them after 4CP - you can only get them from Ranger trucks and only two squads.
Command aura from Ranger captain affects them but given their purpose in game you don't really often have them in his aura.
All in all - Storms are for the same price much more versatile with weapons (which require ammo investment, true), without any upgrades have more HP than Rangers (even with Vet unlock) and Storms Vet unlock gives them 25% damage resistance which even further increases their survivability. Rangers on the hand are specilized for close range combat, have less HP (which means "die faster") - that is why they have crawl right from the start, to get chance to use their weapons at ranges where they are effective.
And this gets us to the most important point - the role in the doctrine along with the options of the WHOLE doctrine. Storms are made to be MAIN combat force of BK doctrine. They have everything they need to fight enemy head-on-head and support their expensive but strong tanks (Tiger I/ Panther). So the concept here is that this infantry advances with tanks (there are also doctrinal and unit-related boosts to help with this tactics), tanks kill enemy tanks (and now with functional HE shots can eliminate even soft targets if needed) while Infantry provides cover from enemy infantry and/or AT guns that could threaten the tanks. Storms can be also boosted by command unit.
Infantry doctrine works completely different from the BK doctrine - their strongest tank is Sherman 76 so they need to deal with Axis heavy tanks in other ways - mostly by arty which is costly and unless you immobilize the tank with first shot the chances are that the tank just drives out of the area unharmed. Infiltration rangers are NOT meant to supoprt main attack pushes. They can clear out AT positions before advances, they can ambush infantry etc. - they can cause trouble behind lines but what can they really in main attack force with their thompsons (short range), abilities which consist mostly of throwing something at relatively close range and one zooka?
I could do very similar comparison to the new Marine Commandos.
So once and for all - Storms are not the same as Infiltration rangers/Marine commandos. And just because some unit has some ability limited by something doesn't mean that other unit with same ability needs to have that limitation too. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree but this is how it is and how it will stay.
This is our (dev team) standpoint on this and we consider this matter closed.
"crawl" of Storm troopers. One user likes to bring up this topic when almost whatever is discussed and swing with this "argument" left and right. The argument is (or "are" because this particular member used this thing to argument more points):
1) Storms don't have crawl by default and need to unlock it while now Infiltration rangers and Marine commandos have it without any unlock and thus it is "unfair"
2) Storms cannot crawl when they upgrade AT weapon while others can crawl with AT, so it is unfair to Storms
etc.
These points might seem valid if you strictly compare two units against each other but in the end even this argument falls short on some other aspects. If we want to compare units (really, don't do it, but for the sake of making point let's try it for this once) then you cannot simply focus on one aspect they have in common (in this case the ability to "crawl") but completely neglect other aspects and then demand some unification. An extreme example (and I intentionally say EXTREME example, so don't even try, you, particular member of this forum, to catch on this and say it is completely different) would be comparing Reg5 and AB engineers - they have in common that they are air-dropped and can reinforece anywhere but what they don't have in common is their role, price, possible weapon upgrades and in general the overall possibilities of their doctrines. So saying "Reg5 are very decent combat units, why AB engineers suck so much?" makes obviously no sense.
Back to the "crawl" thing - in its basic principle this example is the same as comparing Storms and Infiltration rangers, only these are not so obvious because they are not such an extreme.
Storms:
Cost 400MP (from HT; 450MP with command ability)
Each soldier has 95HP
Reinforcement cost is 38MP
They come equipped with Kar98 which have probably best stats of all Kar98 versions (except for sniper) and even better than Enfields of CW Tommies.
You can equip them with weapons:
MG42 good for "mid-long range" fire support squad
Stg44s good for close-mid range combat
So they can excel at both close and range fights.
Panzerschreck adds protection against vehicles (though after adding aim time, less effective than before)
With Storm training you get Vet1 automatically and Storms take 25% less damage from any source and get the ability to crawl.
You can have them after 2 CP - you can spawn them in empty buildings which enables you to get a Storms squad near the place where fighting is happening and thus get quickly an infantry unit into the fight (it is NOT an infiltration ability).
You can have 3 squads + Suppression squad + command squad + demo squad.
Infiltration rangers:
Cost 400MP (one unit comes with Ranger truck for 500MP)
Each soldier has 80HP
Reinforcement cost is 45MP
They come equipped with 5xThompsons and one upgraded bazooka. So you save some ammo on upgrades, however they are only effective at close range and at mid-long range they suck.
You can equip them with weapons:
None - only if you manage to pick up some dropped weapon.
With Ranger training they gain +10 max HP and gain XP faster by 50%.
You can have them after 4CP - you can only get them from Ranger trucks and only two squads.
Command aura from Ranger captain affects them but given their purpose in game you don't really often have them in his aura.
All in all - Storms are for the same price much more versatile with weapons (which require ammo investment, true), without any upgrades have more HP than Rangers (even with Vet unlock) and Storms Vet unlock gives them 25% damage resistance which even further increases their survivability. Rangers on the hand are specilized for close range combat, have less HP (which means "die faster") - that is why they have crawl right from the start, to get chance to use their weapons at ranges where they are effective.
And this gets us to the most important point - the role in the doctrine along with the options of the WHOLE doctrine. Storms are made to be MAIN combat force of BK doctrine. They have everything they need to fight enemy head-on-head and support their expensive but strong tanks (Tiger I/ Panther). So the concept here is that this infantry advances with tanks (there are also doctrinal and unit-related boosts to help with this tactics), tanks kill enemy tanks (and now with functional HE shots can eliminate even soft targets if needed) while Infantry provides cover from enemy infantry and/or AT guns that could threaten the tanks. Storms can be also boosted by command unit.
Infantry doctrine works completely different from the BK doctrine - their strongest tank is Sherman 76 so they need to deal with Axis heavy tanks in other ways - mostly by arty which is costly and unless you immobilize the tank with first shot the chances are that the tank just drives out of the area unharmed. Infiltration rangers are NOT meant to supoprt main attack pushes. They can clear out AT positions before advances, they can ambush infantry etc. - they can cause trouble behind lines but what can they really in main attack force with their thompsons (short range), abilities which consist mostly of throwing something at relatively close range and one zooka?
I could do very similar comparison to the new Marine Commandos.
So once and for all - Storms are not the same as Infiltration rangers/Marine commandos. And just because some unit has some ability limited by something doesn't mean that other unit with same ability needs to have that limitation too. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree but this is how it is and how it will stay.
This is our (dev team) standpoint on this and we consider this matter closed.
.