inf combat at its best! awesome match!

[ShadowIchigo]

this match was amazing

[kwok]

showoff.

but yah really. was pretty nuts. gg.

[kwok]

all dat score, still couldn't win though could you?

[Wake]

Triple British? WTF?

[ShadowIchigo]

and that is the perfect example as to what warhawks was saying... it does not matter what skill u have you are nothing without teamwork, i did not support our armor player... ao he took the fall. doesnt mean he did bad, but what it does show is that allies have to work together to be truly successful. for some reason only i can accomplish that with u kwok, but even in those games i have a kit to learn

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

and that is the perfect example as to what warhawks was saying... it does not matter what skill u have you are nothing without teamwork, i did not support our armor player... ao he took the fall. doesnt mean he did bad, but what it does show is that allies have to work together to be truly successful. for some reason only i can accomplish that with u kwok, but even in those games i have a kit to learn

Try to play triple PE, pretty much the same.

Actually I don't see a point in this whining about how axis are versitale, PE is just as specialized and expensive as brits, TH doc is only about tankbusters, Luft have a lot of things, but everything is so expensive that you never able to combine them, SE is good but has lack of offensive options, no shrecks, no tanks, in 3v3 and 4v4 they can't really launch their own assault. WH def doc is even more narrow focused than entire PE faction. Terror and BK, ok, this docs probably the most flexible in game, but still, BK can't counter arty and may be locked down by emplacements ( especially if 107mm is on field, covered by swarms of USA units you can't do much ). Terror is very expensive and it takes quite a lot of time to get this combo of vet. grens + nebels + stuka + Panther G, thing is cheap Grens broke a principle of this doc, it was all about nasty and expensive things, beeing pure late game doc at the same time ( there were no such expensive units in any other docs, KCH were the most expensive in reinforcement, Stuka the most expensive arty, KT and Panther G one of the most expensive tanks ). I was against KCH removement from the beginning, that was silly to exchange unique unit with it's own abilities for unlimited inf spam with Stg44 for free and fire nades, that is exactly what made this doc OP in some extent, in old times it had to be played extremely carefull in early-mid stage, because all you had is only KCH, which are good for sure, but cost 55mp per man and had veeeery long reinforcement time, so you can atack with them occasionaly and than retreat to base for 4-5 minutes, and if you used ritters in dumb olololo way, than you couldnt get MP for anything else because casualties ate all your MP storage. What changed with grens? You can do mad rushes with extremely high casualties easily with 3-4 grens ( instead 2 KCH ) and still saving res for arty and tanks at the same time, thats what exactly makes this doc the best - constant pressure of Grens, than Panther G + Stuka as finishers. But since in all last patches axis were getting nerfs, nerfs and nerfs, I don't think that Terror have to be changed anyhow ( if only KCH will come back ), at least not untill PE and Def will be tuned up to a better lvl.

[kwok]

Lol. Illa and I both played def doc. Y'know. "Super narrow focused".
So I don't think def needs to be tuned up, but terror (prob not bk) needs to be tuned down.

But the difference between specialized and non-specialized is a whole other argument that had been made irrelevant anyways. Devs seem pretty set on keeping the assymetry. Imo it is always going to be a root cause of imbalance, but what can we do?

[Warhawks97]

and that is the perfect example as to what warhawks was saying... it does not matter what skill u have you are nothing without teamwork, i did not support our armor player... ao he took the fall. doesnt mean he did bad, but what it does show is that allies have to work together to be truly successful. for some reason only i can accomplish that with u kwok, but even in those games i have a kit to learn

Try to play triple PE, pretty much the same.

Actually I don't see a point in this whining about how axis are versitale, PE is just as specialized and expensive as brits, TH doc is only about tankbusters, Luft have a lot of things, but everything is so expensive that you never able to combine them, SE is good but has lack of offensive options, no shrecks, no tanks, in 3v3 and 4v4 they can't really launch their own assault. WH def doc is even more narrow focused than entire PE faction.

Its a difference between having no other options at all or having just high cost to combine stuff. On the long hand, high cost but lots of possible options does allow to adjust throughout the game. Getting maybe not even everything at the same time, but in each period of the game another unit or small unit combo that makes it hard for enemies to adjust, if they even can adjust to new upcoming threats.

CW is both, narrowed and expensive. US is still narrow (somewhere between PE and WH) but relatively cheap (important word is "relatively" here)

TH and Luft arent narrow, PE in general is everythig but narrowed, just expensive and certain units very specialized.

WH is neither narrowly specialized nor really expensive (Except KT which in return is alone a death sentence to certain enemie docs). Not even Def doc.

Def doc has third strongest arty (actually the best early game with 3 CP long range capable howitzers).
It has a defense that can stop everything but RA and a late game inf being the most powerfull one (def doc boni and map with craters). Just most only get out 3-4 pio squads to keep building bunkers.

Def doc stops all docs, except RA (and maybe RAF since arty cromwell got added). I am not a def doc master but what ive seen from def experts i wouldnt consider def as useless or weak. It holds cruical points long enough with minimum effort so that mates can run fast for panthers and stuff, provides decent arty support and can lock down Armor doc (and actually ohers) by its own. Yeah, it might not get fat defense and inf blobb at the same time, but both alone are very powerfull at their game stages. It basically turns from a hardcore defense doc into powerfull inf doc with decent arty support (and assault tank). And the Panther/stupa combo later is again a job for a top RA player.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

CW is not narrow at all. Raf have everything you may need, elite inf, arty unit, airstrikes, all kinds of 17 pounders, snipers, sneaky things like glyder drop, booby traps, charges, triangle detection and disabling point ability. When I play raf I can do it solo just like with Terror.

Arty can provide reconsistance all over the map, create back ups with emplacements, tankbusters, 17 pounders + keep pushing with some inf and vehicles + overrepairing mates vehicles. Check my arty replays here on forum, I easily could reach 200 pop cap doing all things mentioned above at the same time, but never could able to do the same with def.

Only RE is expensive and narrow in reality, coz they dont have multipurpose units.

USA...inf doc is not narrow at all, it can do absolutely everything, the only weakness is heavy tanks, imo - in early\mid stafe inf doc is the best in game.

And def doesnt really have strong arty, Howitzers become absolete as soon as Priest is on field, than, if you have Stupa as a reward, hence no Grille, you dont really have arty in late game. Inf doc in late game swiming in res and can afford to build howitzers at the corner of the map just for VT use, Def cant do that, they build Howitzers at the beginning but almost never in late game.

TH doc is not narrow, really? It only can do tankbusting, but long time ago we discussed that axis dont need highly specialized tank destroyed doc, since they basicly can handle armor very well.

[Panzer-Lehr-Division]

Yes was epic, i try learn british and mostly Play re cause for me they very interesting i mean the doc now.Anyways i did hold very well got illa almost but then kwok came from his right and they teamworked me out of misery:( sadly there were no Teamwork tough. Sam were arty i asked him tons of times to arty but somehow he did not respond anyways was very funny!

Edit: Do not Forget this map somehow bugged tanks always get slow down... for no reason / unkillable inf tough everywhere is like a inivisible green wall of cover... However i tough we had good Chance but this round we lacked much on Teamwork. While the Opponent had absolutely great Teamwork.

[kwok]

My favorite parts of the game are the multiple times lehr and shadow complained "wtf are you doing here, kwok."

teamwork makes the dream work. #alliesOP #artynoobs #axisOP

[ShadowIchigo]

SUKIN STFU!
anyway i have begun to think that raf doesnt have "elite inf" and that combat wise they are performing just as the same as regular infantry sections. on top of that u can produce 3 luet to stack bonuses.. brens seem to rip luft inf sometimes when just one officer is around. i feel commandos are only good for abilities in a way now.. Idk why that ninja smoke was taking away anyways. you are suppposed to "disappear" in a thick smoke cloud.. made no sense to me just bc some whiny bitch ass axis fanboys

[Erich]

Kwok is a bad general,look to his losses,i mean Manyfathers and husbands were killed for nothing!!!

[Warhawks97]

And def doesnt really have strong arty, Howitzers become absolete as soon as Priest is on field, than, if you have Stupa as a reward, hence no Grille, you dont really have arty in late game. Inf doc in late game swiming in res and can afford to build howitzers at the corner of the map just for VT use, Def cant do that, they build Howitzers at the beginning but almost never in late game.

And the standard assumption: Allis always have priest, allis have always pro arty player, allis do always have arty doc.

If you dont face that doc, def doc stops lots of shit by its own, is superior in arty power to all alli docs except RA.
We might as well say that Def is "usless" because allis always (or in 99% of the games) choose RA doc when expecting not noobish axis team. You should see the reactions in teamchat when i say "we can do it without RA, we just need to play very fast and smart". Not seldomly players instantly abandon or want me to leave the game. And the last sentence or question when everybody said its doc is usually "but who gets arty later?"

So how usless is def doc (or any axis doc, even luft) when they more or less always force allied to choose arty doc?

TH doc is not narrow, really? It only can do tankbusting, but long time ago we discussed that axis dont need highly specialized tank destroyed doc, since they basicly can handle armor very well.

I also thought so, atm its one of my fav Pe docs. Its not easy, true. The early-mid arty is in my opinion one of the best. Early double hotchkiss is able to prevent allis to get emplacments.

And i am trying to get this combo: Tank IV H, Jagdpanzer IV/70 or AT squads with double schreck, krad and 1-2 standard gren squads and 1-2 hotchkiss. It takes some time but that way you can deal with most the enemie throws at you. Ive been playing TH doc at montargis vs double RAF (shadow and hardstyle iirc) and won by just using all the standard inf backed by a hetzer and Geschützwagen.

Its a bit boring as you stay very long in a defense to get the minimum of res and all buildings and assaults need to be made carefully (and always with hotch support) but works out.

So it can do more than just doing tank destroying. Same as SE is a lot more as just arty. Just its kind of boring game and the assaults carefully and "soft" slow pushing. Thats why PE TH feels like being the "axis RE doc" just with better inf.



anyway, this discussion is turning arround the same point just as billion topics and discussions before.