Dream Teams on 4v4 Goodwood

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Axis:

Me (SE) - 61 000 score
Warhawks (Blitz) - 31 000 score
Terence (Blitz) - 29 000 score
WhiteLoki (Luft) - 60 000 score

Alies:

(SVT)
1impulse (Aiborn) - 90 000 score
Bears (Arty) - 67 000 score
Dr. (Tanks) - 45 000 score
and Crimax as (RaF) - 50 000 score

Wake, you can see here dozens of airborn squads which are eating luft and strom units alive. Moreover, we had actually 3 docs with strong inf ( double bk and luft) and theoreticaly we could overrun them with masses of elite inf, but nope....., even 3 docs werent enough against masses of 101s and upgraded commando later. As for tanks: 1 Jumbo with command truck was enough to blow all our panzers, stugs, stuhs and later tigers even (lol) + 17 pounders really everywhere, i played SE and first tried to destroy them, but then realised that while i was destroying one emplacement with Wespe and 210mm nebel they were building two more in the same time. But game wasnt bad actually, worth seeing it;)

Edit: Dr. even didnt use pershings, or ace, or SP, or even E8, jumbo + he sherman were enough.

[Warhawks97]

US armor doc is all about jumbo and jacks currently. Unlike inf and airborne which can be played very well as quantity faction from mid to late game US armor is more or less all about quality. Single Jumbo and Jacks + maybe an command vehicle is better than any larger sherman production and by far more cost effective.

Something on upgrades, upkeep, fuel income need to be done that using some larger masses of shermans and later 76 shermans is more appealing, possible and at least somewhow cost effective. Inf and Airborne doesnt look bad in outnumbering enemie units.

[Krieger Blitzer]

That's exactly why I told u guys several times and yet again I will frequently repeat... Allies even need no any unhistorical 'Ace' units I swear!

[Warhawks97]

That's exactly why I told u guys several times and yet again I will frequently repeat... Allies even need no any unhistorical 'Ace' units I swear!

doesnt matter. I am saying that armor doc is pretty much only Jumbo, maybe one sherman and then jackson. Ace if axis get really heavy armor and when axis is on the push or the game still open when KT etc is comming. But at that time allied were pushing with 101st and priests + emplacments already and thats why there was no need anymore for any ace.

They also combined their 17 pounders well with their 101st. So unless a good brits teammate is producing enough 17 pounders the US armor player has a need for it in late game. So single call ins like jumbo, ace and non call in but expenvie tanks like Jackson are the replacment for the not existing spam (due to fuel issues mostly) of crap tanks during a game.

[Wake]

Okay, great game. I'll sum up what I saw.

The axis blobbed their elite infantry (stormtroopers, fallschrimjagers) and tried to attack, but got immediately blown up by artillery and air strikes. Then the axis would try to push in with tanks, but the allies had 17 pounders everywhere on the front lines, so that didn't work.

So then the allies would try and push in with their elite infantry (commandos, paratroopers) and get absolutely destroyed by stuff like scout cars, volks with mg34 in heavy cover, and suppression stormtroopers, ostwinds, and occasionally, a 210mm nebelwerfer.

But, while pushing in, the elite allied infantry was able to spot the enemies support units, ie rushing up and killing a medic halftrack or destroying a wespe. Furthermore, they were able to combine that with immediate follow-up artillery and air strikes.

Basically, the axis were fucked because they couldn't push up with infantry, as the allied commandos and paratroopers would win while in cover and call for immediate artillery and air strikes, and the axis tanks couldn't push up because there were 17 pounders (and later, jacksons) everywhere.

The allies won because of their amazing support abilities, which was pretty much lots of artillery and airplanes. That would destroy many key axis units, and then the allies would always exploit the breakthrough with their Jumbo 76, which is arguably the most important allied unit in the game.

But I mean, I regularly saw Jumbo's getting destroyed by panzershreck infantry, as well as once, there was an attack of a 76 Jumbo + Command Car + 2 HE Shermans. A single 75mm PaK 40 Puma killed them all, and got vet 3. I also saw SAS losing 4 men to volks with an mg34, retreating, then completely dying as they ran through butterfly bombs. Even more ridiculous was when I saw SAS losing 5 men to a scout car which wasn't even in lock-down mode.

As for the airborne, it looked like the only reason they won was because of how many there were. I saw an attack with like, 6 paratrooper squads. That and how great their airplane support is.

So, pretty much, this game is a testament to how good the allied support is, which are artillery and air strikes.

[Warhawks97]

Okay, great game. I'll sum up what I saw.

The axis blobbed their elite infantry (stormtroopers, fallschrimjagers) and tried to attack, but got immediately blown up by artillery and air strikes. Then the axis would try to push in with tanks, but the allies had 17 pounders everywhere on the front lines, so that didn't work.

So then the allies would try and push in with their elite infantry (commandos, paratroopers) and get absolutely destroyed by stuff like scout cars, volks with mg34 in heavy cover, and suppression stormtroopers, ostwinds, and occasionally, a 210mm nebelwerfer.

But, while pushing in, the elite allied infantry was able to spot the enemies support units, ie rushing up and killing a medic halftrack or destroying a wespe. Furthermore, they were able to combine that with immediate follow-up artillery and air strikes.

Basically, the axis were fucked because they couldn't push up with infantry, as the allied commandos and paratroopers would win while in cover and call for immediate artillery and air strikes, and the axis tanks couldn't push up because there were 17 pounders (and later, jacksons) everywhere.

The allies won because of their amazing support abilities, which was pretty much lots of artillery and airplanes. That would destroy many key axis units, and then the allies would always exploit the breakthrough with their Jumbo 76, which is arguably the most important allied unit in the game.

But I mean, I regularly saw Jumbo's getting destroyed by panzershreck infantry, as well as once, there was an attack of a 76 Jumbo + Command Car + 2 HE Shermans. A single 75mm PaK 40 Puma killed them all, and got vet 3. I also saw SAS losing 4 men to volks with an mg34, retreating, then completely dying as they ran through butterfly bombs. Even more ridiculous was when I saw SAS losing 5 men to a scout car which wasn't even in lock-down mode.

As for the airborne, it looked like the only reason they won was because of how many there were. I saw an attack with like, 6 paratrooper squads. That and how great their airplane support is.

So, pretty much, this game is a testament to how good the allied support is, which are artillery and air strikes.

great summary. Their inf and tanks wasnt such a big threat. But the masses of airborne + arty on all aa tanks made it. As i said CW arty is so important in every teamgame. RAF wasnt that great, the SAS died very fast against stormtooper suppression squad and other sutff. Just we had to reproduce AA tanks which were lost to arty. No anti air and its hard with axis against all the airplanes and building AA tanks cost a lot when lost so fast to arty.


Also funny that the puma with 75 mm killed 3 shermans including a jumbo and its no even that rare in games. And just in another topic someone claimed that JP spam from TH doc is the only doc able to beat "sherman spam":D

I guess he hasnt watched this one:P

[crimax]

I agree with your analysis and I want to add some considerations:

1) The type of map is important. On open area maps, artillery and airstrikes are a lot more effective. AA also, but in mid/long game, it cannot be decisive.

2) A lost match, but well played, is more fun than an "too easy to won" game.

3) Something should be done to balance mid game arty (especially 75mm CW, it is one of the most spammed units)

4) It is time to upgrade the BK map pack. Maps in it are old, abused and boring. I would love a map like Goodwood but "Stalingrad version". I mean a wide urban map where close combat gets its main role.

5) Too much arty in this mod (again yes) . Artillery role didn't have the same influence on western front like the eastern one.

[Warhawks97]

I agree with your analysis and I want to add some considerations:

1) The type of map is important. On open area maps, artillery and airstrikes are a lot more effective. AA also, but in mid/long game, it cannot be decisive.

2) A lost match, but well played, is more fun than an "too easy to won" game.

3) Something should be done to balance mid game arty (especially 75mm CW, it is one of the most spammed units)

4) It is time to upgrade the BK map pack. Maps in it are old, abused and boring. I would love a map like Goodwood but "Stalingrad version". I mean a wide urban map where close combat gets its main role.

5) Too much arty in this mod (again yes) . Artillery role didn't have the same influence on western front like the eastern one.

1) yes, but aa can be decisive esspecially in mid game. Ostwind is often the first tank i get when fighting commandos. Effective glider counter and good anti air/anti inf.

2) True. Still i would like to have a nice 2-3 or even 4-5 hour game with a final win. I miss them:(

3) Maybe lack of alternatives. Honestly what would you do without them when enemie has many 37 and 50 mm paks (sometimes one player has 2 50 mm already)+scout cars etc. I had a kind of test game against SVT guys which used no arty doc (and we no SE) and they had to wait till late game for any offensive act altough our def doc player had not single bunker, or 88 Möbelwagen or Marder as most def doc players have, i had no stuh (when i could have had two already) and luft player also no 88 in early game. We only had light paks, vehicles and some inf (volks only) and every of their attempts to do something with inf or vehicles got stopped by 37 mm pak+sniper. They had to combine inf doc off map+jumbo+ later arty churchills to do any step forward and as i said we had a poor and weak defense of just a single heavy 75 mm AT gun and no bunker, or 88 or 20 mm, stuh or stuff that is usually used. Not even a single MG42 got used and they could do nothing except sniping and using off map arty on heavy pak.
And this ligh 75 mm arty should be more common. The easiest counter against it is to turn from a defensive static style into flexibel defense. The 75 mm cant do that much against tanks later. They literally clean the map only from the nasty static HMG´s and paks.

4)New maps in official Bk map pack would be fine.

5)sure? Some historians claim US arty as the most important ground froces and together with Airplanes the arty played a very important role. Esspecially the US had a good use of it as they had been the only faction that had all arty units entirely mechanized. This decision was made right before the beginning of ww2 and in 41 their arty was entirely mechanized. On eastern front had been much more arty but also more large area bombing.

[Shanks]

Good game

[The New BK Champion]

Good game

Wtf, how did u even watch a replay from 4 years ago

That's exactly why I told u guys several times and yet again I will frequently repeat... Allies even need no any unhistorical 'Ace' units I swear!

kek tho

[Shanks]

I have that version saved with the COH

[Walderschmidt]

I have that version saved with the COH

Please gimme gimme I wanna see.

Wald

[Shanks]

It's a joke, I do not have it