Allies tanks>Axis tanks

[Krieger Blitzer]

SP has more range than the KT.. funny!

I maintained my KT alive as long as possible.

V1 again hits directly the SP but yet no damage at all o.O

The Inf doc player was like RA doc, RE doc and Luft doc all in one at the same time

Stupid arty balance so far...

This is simply not fair anyhow

[Panzer-Lehr-Division]

The same i just wrote at your missing post, getting tired of this mod Balance.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Which teams?

[Krieger Blitzer]

SE, Terror docs vs Commissar as Inf doc and Mr as Armor doc... Was I just unlucky that the V1 did no damage to the SP??!! Well -_-

[kwok]

Yeah. I think it was just bad luck, to be honest. Not so much a balance issue. I think it's known that the V1 behaves funky.

[Warhawks97]

SP has more range than the KT.. funny!

nope, for both it should be 70 without any buffs.

This is simply not fair anyhow

Hmmm.... Who wants to keep the SP in game? OH, That is You!
So stop kidding complaining.


I know that the SP is actually against the principals:

Repeating myself 100000000 times:

Yes, remove them. Remove SP and Pershing ace. Limit the Jumbo to armor doc. I do even think that Jumbo saw as much action at western front, as the Tigers did.

Long, long, long time before you ever entered BK mod or the forum i did ask for a persh ace removal and voted in a poll SP removal to remove that tank. In return buffing the normal pershings armor and correcting the 90 mm gun. Thats what most wanted actually.

Stupid arty balance so far...

just lol.

In 2 vs 2 the inf doc is the best allied arty doc. In teamfights the terror doc is competing with inf doc armor already.

V1 again hits directly the SP but yet no damage at all o.O

And we all know that V1 has some bugs vs tanks.... just as Stuka dive bomber and P-47 bomber sometimes.


[quote=Tiger"1996"]The Inf doc player was like RA doc, RE doc and Luft doc all in one at the same time [/quote]

Oh, they got hull down ability and churchills? How can they be like "luft doc"? Have you seen SD? Airstrikes?


You could make the same question for def and terror doc. Mixture of inf, arty and heavy tank docs/fortification.

[Krieger Blitzer]

SP WON'T be removed.. even if we ALL asked for it!
It simply can't happen, just too late now... If Wolf would ever manage to do so; then this would be such a very big surprise to be honest.
Yet I am not against the removal btw however that I do very well realize that it will NOT happen!!

[Warhawks97]

You pray it wont happen. Because if then you would lose more or less the justification to request more and earlier long shots. SP + command car and 80 range is crazy but also the only really "pushing" thing that could justify your requests.


AND CALM DOWN:D. BIG LETTERS DO NOT HELP!



But one thing to the game: Min 8:50- min 9: When i see that usless cal 50 on m20 again shooting from distance on volks which just done die......

When you look the first mins, the axis team failed. For example pak 36+HMG as start unit as PE is the worst opening. PE can use mobile MG42 platforms and pak could use HE rounds from start. But producing a HMG eats the starting ammo which then reduces the paks efficency as it cant use HE rounds anymore.

and despite that fail start, axis struggled by far less during that time. The lucky arty strike against lehr was the only thing that saved allieds ass in the first 15 mins.


Min 18:12: You must be kidding to use this game as balance issue. 1500 MP reserve for Lehr and 138 fuel! FUCK: Go Th doc doc, OP fuel and spam tank IV H. That would have been the fastest way to finish that game.....

Tiger same: Get out a stug III+ grens. Jeez.... You had all advantages on your side. You guys just had to connect your defense so that it beomces one line from the hill to tigers front in that curve.
I would actually stop watching the game right now as it has nothing to do with balance issue. Tiger, are you watching your own replays before posting? Its in every game the same. You fail to make the win in the right moment with the correct units. Its usually the time between min 12-20 where you could quickly finish most of your games. That you just dont learn that....

you guys should really improve your recconaissance. In all games you lacking recons although having res.


Min 34: Tigers infantry tactics. Running with inf on the field towards an allied inf squad in green cover and lmg... and win.....So you really wonder why allis start using emplacments? When my best inf squad with lmg and perfect cover cant stop an assault of standard axis infantry that runs over field, then i would also start using emplacments. And thats what i mean. No emplacments and you risk to get chased back to your own base in a single attack.


Is it really sooo surprising that allis start using emplacments when they see all few seconds see such fucking axis immortal blobbs?!! You forced them to do that because with every super Nazi-Soldier hit and run you killed stuff and gained veterancy there was no allied inf or anyhting that could counter it effectively. + Panther at the same time. So, is it really SOOO surprising they start spamming emplacments?! Everybody would have started using them. So you let them no other choice as to use emplacments to counter that blobb. Normal HMG crews would have been overruned within seconds.

So if you want the emplacments nerfed or increased in cost then, pls, make it possible to counter axis Nazi genetic warrior blobbs with normal friendly infantry that is using lmgs and Rifles or HMGs. But unless this is not gonna happen, emplacments (esspecially for inf doc) will remain as important tool to survive on the late game battlefield.


I mean they used just one emplacment the first 45 mins and inf doc not a single one. Inf doc even went for veterancy ranger upgrade first but it didnt help him. "Vet rangers" got simply rushed away from the battlefield from mad axis standard inf.


Min 44: The SP is once again the last survival gurantee. The SP is the only allied unit that stands between the axis and their vicotry. Inf doc is dead at this time. Their elite inf is just to crapy to stand a chance.


Axis grens again rushing with 0 brain and tactic and 0 cover over the field....Prepared alli inf get shred.... Axis losses: 2 Grens... the cal 50 on jumbo and all other weapons was just a "wellness bullet rain". Axis inf gets vet... next attack will become even more brutal.

You know what? These "super nazi blobbs" is the real nightmare for every allied player. When you see such tripple STG formations coming you must move everything you have against it. Meanwhile Tiger could have build second Panther......


Min 56:50-Min 57:05.... Check Tigers gren. He didnt controle them even and they killed both ranger squads in cover... Grens didnt stop moving or didnt use any ability.... They just made an relaxing walk and killed rangers btw..... WTF

Tiger just said: "Why you didnt hint me about the inf"..!!...., He didnt even realize that his inf just whiped out two ranger squads! lels x 1000.. Fuck, couldnt hold myself. I almost felt apart by laughing.


1 Hour: Lehr should have put a nashorn on Hill and then upgrading fuel and ammo with scout car. I cant see a single emplacment.

Inf doc is far away from being "Luft, RA, RE at the same time".


1 hour 1 min: 10-36 seconds: The SP is not outranging KT. SP used the command vehicle to boost range. KT was half HP down already and the side hit might be a rear hit. Two other shots bounced from KT.


1h 03 min: why didnt you coordinate arty and KT attack on SP?

[Krieger Blitzer]

Min 44: The SP is once again the last survival gurantee. The SP is the only allied unit that stands between the axis and their vicotry. Inf doc is dead at this time. Their elite inf is just to crapy to stand a chance.

But someone wants to remove it!

And I never said the SP is OP, I just say the the KT is still under-powered being very expensive and also available too late; it should probably get the Accurate Long Shot earlier at least...

The Allies inf are not less stronger anyhow btw as they can blob the hell out of it too.. as we were ONLY complaining about how insanely fast the emplacements were being constructed and also repaired in no time on the Allies side which is brainless too.

[kwok]

Doesn't Kt cost 1400mp and 210 fuel? Sp is 2000 right? Sp is single call in. Not all but in most situations I think sp costs a lot more than Kt. Let's say the average pm income at the later game is around 250. That means that USA needs to wait about 2.5 mins of not spending, reinforcing, etc to call in sp relative to Kt. Sure Kt costs fuel and sp doesn't, but at late game fuel is normally stockpiled and unit preservation > reinforcing becomes a lot more critical than unit creation. Many times, as both axis and allies, I would gladly trade fuel for mp (bk doc has this which is neat). On top of that, a single call in unit is a heavy cost as is. It forces a lot of decision making on timing of call in, because it becomes a lot more important to keep it alive. It's a trade off decision when deciding to call an sp. do I reinforce my existing army so that it can support my sp when it comes in, delaying the sp? Or do I risk losing units for the sake of calling a less supported sp?
Sometimes, a good player dominates well enough that they can call in a supported sp. but that's not OP, that just means they're moving to end the game. Axis are extremely good at ending a game and prolonging a game. When axis get a lead, it's hard to create fresh units to combat vetted and "designed to be powerful" units. Allies tend to rely in abilities more than units, but abilities don't get veterancy. Meanwhile, a lot of allied units can be killed by fresh axis units. But their trade off is less spammy abilities. I wouldn't say this is a balance issue, it's a battle of play styles and ideas.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I will not agree about this, actually SP cost 1660 mp ( 340 tank cap which comes together with tank), it's almost the same as KT, but King requires 125 ammo for upgrades + 210 fuel, that's why I can say that getting KT is a LOT harder than getting sp, especially if take in attention that alies usually have higher MP income.

[Krieger Blitzer]

SP price is 1900MP, 9 CPs with 50.cal top turret gunner + Vet2 commander.. KT costs 1400MP, 210 fuel or 1200MP and 200 fuel (without MG gunner) plus 11 CPs And still no commander anyways!
Yet; the SP is much better at every possible aspect...

US can upgrade supply yard for better MP income as Sukin just mentioned too.

[kwok]

Hm. Fair point. You're right there. But I'll bring up another.

I think keeping at KT alive is much easier than SP because KT is able to deflect more types of units while the SP basically catches shreks and any other heavy tank fire. I guess the balancing factor there is that SP can over repair, but that means that after each engagement the SP needs time to repair again, while axis tanks can keep rolling forward until their health gets critical, which I think takes longer than SP. Put an SP vs KT head to head, I still expect SP to win even though it costs less. Just as I expect an M10 to face a stuh with easy, just because their roles and capabilities are different. I think Warhawks said it once that Axis are more balanced overall while Allied are more specialized not just at the doctrine level but the unit level as well.
Btw, I never take MG-less KT and I think it's dumb not to. It's barely any cost difference (less than a minute of waiting) and improves its ability to survive and kill by so much more.

[kwok]

But, I never use KT so. What do I know? I pref just one OP panther any day. I slayed a fully vetted SP with 2 (one fresh one semi vetted) panthers no problem, not even taking a loss. I feel I could do the same if I switched my one panther with a set of axis units i'd normally have anyways.

[Warhawks97]

Ok. Look this game. The SP was the last unit that kept allis alive. If it dies, it cant come back. An allied team that has just like 5 territories left would never be able to stand so long and to damage a KT so critical just with infantry. And if, then axis could get new Panthers etc quickly.



Although allied did hold the map, axis managed several times to almost kill the SP. I think it would have been better to get to Panthers in that one moment when SP was almost dead.

Also allis did upgrade their points, axis didnt and never took final controle of the hill with stable defense although it was possible.

Nashorn got wasted in bad ways. In ambush it gets like 85 range.

Allis had that recon in that map corner, a huge advantage.

Just a bit better teamplay... one sweap with panther over hill, cover hill with nashorn and OP points and you could have build many more panthers or having reserves.
And you didnt use a single time an AT squad as support.

[Tor]

Hm. Fair point. You're right there. But I'll bring up another.

I think keeping at KT alive is much easier

RAF Rocket strike, Long Tom, yeah much easier.
I dont have games there hummel kill any pershing, they move, end of story, but vs priest i lose, KT, Tiger-1, Panthers, PZ-4h, puma!!

[kwok]

Mmm... Rocket strikes can side stepped and dodged especially if you stay moving or play on a big map (which I've always encouraged... solves so many problem but still everyone ignores.) On top of that, if you have a teammate or even spam pumas, you can shoot planes out of the sky easily if you know how to position AA or drive your tank within the coverage of AA.
Long tom is a huge luck based ability, sometimes it hits, sometimes it misses. If it misses enough, easy to just walk out of.
Other arty, same as above.

And you've never killed a large tank with arty? Walking stuka? Wespe? They do ridiculous damage with amazing accuracy, and don't cost as much as an offmap, their cooldowns are lower and can be lowered even more, they can even do direct shot if desperate or ballsy.

Honestly, I think there are 2 reasons why KT's die to offmap abilities: small map or the handler. Everytime I lose a large tank to off map abilities, I only feel blame to myself because I find it extremely easy to avoid those with average micro. But, when I play axis, my micro gets lazy and slips so often because of how effectively Axis can manage without intense micro.

[Tor]

Mmm... Rocket strikes can side stepped and dodged especially if you stay moving or play on a big map (which I've always encouraged... solves so many problem but still everyone ignores.) On top of that, if you have a teammate or even spam pumas, you can shoot planes out of the sky easily if you know how to position AA or drive your tank within the coverage of AA.
Long tom is a huge luck based ability, sometimes it hits, sometimes it misses. If it misses enough, easy to just walk out of.
Other arty, same as above.

And you've never killed a large tank with arty? Walking stuka? Wespe? They do ridiculous damage with amazing accuracy, and don't cost as much as an offmap, their cooldowns are lower and can be lowered even more, they can even do direct shot if desperate or ballsy.

Honestly, I think there are 2 reasons why KT's die to offmap abilities: small map or the handler. Everytime I lose a large tank to off map abilities, I only feel blame to myself because I find it extremely easy to avoid those with average micro. But, when I play axis, my micro gets lazy and slips so often because of how effectively Axis can manage without intense micro.

About AA, in 2vs2 you cant shoot typhoon, all times he fire rockets.
Stuka can kill damaged SP, long tom and typhoon can kill full HP KT, thats why i dont build KT, i build only panthers.
Wespe have damage? like 75mm brits car?)

[Warhawks97]

Ehm. Rocket strikes do not always succeed in killing a KT instantly. Its someitmes luck.


Also i scored lots of tank kills with hummels and wespes just as i do with other arty. The wespes/Hummels/Priest can all kill quite good. And with vet all 3 are pretty accurate.

generally i avoid to spend massive res into one unit. Those are always a liked arty target, regardless if allied or axis.

But with hummel i also succeeded killing up to 15 tanks and more, usually right with first or second shot.


I see many allied tank formations being bashed by quick rocket arty. A walking stuka salvo can be quite devestating against a group of shermans. But when using them with command car you must stick close together with them. CW tanks are very liekly to be killed by arty. They are always worth it and slow.


When i played without RA then i see more allied tanks dying to non stop rocket arty shooting as axis tanks die to arty. And i dont lose many tanks as axis to arty but i also never use expensive slow tanks (never KT, JT, Elephant).


And AA can kill airplanes. Ive got 16 airplane kills on duclair with a single Ostwind on the hill. AA is freaking effective on that Duclair hill. Its map depending but 2 vs 2 map does not automatically mean that AA is useless.

I used the SP just 3 times and in 2 cases i lost it to arty, in one to FW 190 bomber when my engine got damaged.

[Tor]

30-40 min game 2vs2, if you build KT you probably lose, Long tom, RAF rockets, or just arty strike and litle attack end of story.
If you build SP, you probably win, you have much more freedom with SP, only 50mm pak realy dangerous.
Stukas dont have vet and misses, maybe 2 stukas have good chance to kill damaged SP.
This i see most times.
And i say again, Typhoon shoot rockets all times, bug?

[MarKr]

And i say again, Typhoon shoot rockets all times, bug?

Can you elaborate?

[Butterkeks]

And i say again, Typhoon shoot rockets all times, bug?

What...?

I manage to shoot it down very often and it then never shoots any rockets...

[Krieger Blitzer]

This Typhoon rocket run airstrike is doubtlessly the most dangerous of all... And it's also worth to mention that even the AB doc bombing airstrike as well just killed a full HP Elephant yesterday btw; which is fine for sure.

However that we are not speaking about the airstrikes now anyways.. as we are speaking about the weakness and the unreliability of the KT unlike the SP on the other hand, as it's such a very expensive piece of shit that is also available too late!

That's why I would say perhaps only -100MP or even -200MP cost for each KT while then the Accurate Long Shot to become available on Vet lvl 2 instead of Vet lvl 3 for now...

[Butterkeks]

Lol.

Right now we were discussing about Typhoon rocket "bug".

And you got nothing better to do to propagate your stupid ALS in ANOTHER fucking topic?
Really dude?

It's already in another topic, we got it, you want that stupid ALS.

Is it really necessary to mention it in EVERY FUCKING topic?!

[Krieger Blitzer]

Actually this is my topic, and it's mainly about the KT.. are u fking blind?!

Or from where do u think the discussion about the Typhoon primarily has become??!! It's since Tor said that the KT is easy to destroy while it's amazingly too expensive (unlike Kwok claimed) which is 100% true...