4v4 operation goodwood as allies

[Alman]

i do not know how we won

Allies

Alman General
Conan
Benito Mussolini
AckerShimautz

vs

Axis

Erich
designfriemel
VFA-97
zzwarhammeerzz

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Axis noobs lol)

[Krieger Blitzer]

Axis only players winning as Allies against 3 'experienced' old ones!!

I watched the stream.. actually... Arty rain and Long Tom just hitting every passing Axis tank + dozens of Allies emplacements everywhere in every second + good tanks such as the awesome ambushed Achilles or the Comet that is bouncing Schrecks being more superior than Panthers if not also to mention the Churchills btw as they weren't too bad as well specifically when hulled down + Excellent Inf and RE docs inf units!

While to keep in mind that the Axis had no 88s, no SD2s and probably not even walking Stukas o.O
Now imagine nerfing those while at the same time buffing the Allies; simply the result is gonna be nothing but truly disastrous.

[Warhawks97]

i do not know how we won

Teamplay and two inf docs with 4 off map arty strikes. Also we didnt use any sort of big axis defense like naked 88´s or anything like that and still it took several long tom and other arty just to kill single tanks of us. And warhammer was more or less new from vcoh so i was staying often alone. He sometimes used walking stuka shooting into fog of war and wasted his ammo that way and sometimes running with his tanks straight into paks or didnt move them and getting hit by long tom. He also never had any grens or AT squads etc. He was like afk untill he could build KT, lost it and was like afk again doing nothing at all. You should know that i would have never started a game as allied with him but thats what i said already. Having a challange as axis means not to use any mega defense and 88 spam and to play with a newbie. But when you play axis with a newbie you have one big advantage. Those usually go straight for arty and big tanks (thats always so) that means for me i just have to keep the enemie busy, doesnt matter how much i lose, i just need to keep some tactical options for our team when the newbies get big tanks. This time it didnt work, last time at Graves bridges it worked, i just had to hold the line against three and sometimes all four players untill terror and def mate got Tiger, elephant and AA tanks to finish the enemie quickly. In this game this newbie teammate used the slow tanks in a an area that made him being an easy arty target instead attacking on the open field.


And what strong churchills? They never really made a step forward without massive arty support from inf player. And even with HE rounds etc and AA tank support i could engage them in a frontal assault. Most just died and even the ace church didnt last longer than 45 seconds when it entered combat. RE by its own did nothing, only holding the line. The best offense unit of RE during that game was, lmao, the double recce in early game. Everyhing else was only hold the line. The two storm squads had been much more devastating during an assault than all RE tanks together. And also the SP was down very quickly, even faster as the KT´s which already got wasted stupidly. But if you really want tiger, i gonna play next time def, luft, se, TH. And then we spam only naked 88´s, arty and TH´s+sd2. But that would probably be a bit too boring.

And lets make assumption that axis are really ONLY able to win because of the naked 88´s, sd2 and all that massive defense stuff and arty spam and 0 cp walking stuka. I then said that i am more than willing to change other axis units to achieve a new balance which makes more fun to play and which is not always only about big defense+arty spam (like buffing big tanks armor, cost changes on certain units in exchange for less massive campy with 88´s and stuff). But simply saying: "thats the only way axis can play and win" is stupid and instead we should rather try to find then new ways of balance. A guy here recently said here in forum: "WW2 was a mobile warfare" and thats true and i dont see a reason why BK cant/shouldnt be like that as it often feels to be a more a ww1 strategy game.... camp+arty..

Now you might ask me tiger why i am complaining about that heavy axis defense games but not about allis one which spammed emplacments last game. I can tell you why: Simply because their emplacments alone hadnt been any problem. In a single attack with storms+ walking stuka from warhammer we overruned all their tanks, killing i think 3 pak emplacments, 2 or 3 mg emplacments, inf squads of them and a 107 mortar emplacment. So axis are more than capable of effectively taking out any enemie defense. Just last game it was a bit lack of coordination from terror player who also didnt even consider to drop an V1 on an area with many emplacments. Grenade bundles, assault abilities and schrecks dealing huge damage to emplacments + add all the VT abilities and super range units.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I didn't say that the Churchills were 'good', I only meant that they weren't 'too bad' which is still meaning 'bad' but at least fine for their current cheap cost and such an early availability! I would actually say that the new buffed Churchills should get a slightly more price increase.. specifically since that the Churchills in real life even weren't anyhow cheaper than Panthers at all btw.
Maybe up to 80 fuel instead of just 60 for now...

Def, Luft, TH and SE docs could be countered with RA, Inf, Inf, and RAF. Which is always a very good super annoying Allies docs formation too!!

[Wolf]

You do realize, that churchills have very weak gun, almost uncapable of penetrating anything harder than PZIV?

[Erich]

we had -1 in our team,also no real strong bunkers,mortar bunkers o anything like that. Desing used sd2 and the noob also had walking stuka but again we're outnumbered and still we managed to destroy the army of RE several times.

i think in these unfair games we can not draw conclusions about which unit is op or need buff,nerf,etc.


i just wanna say sry for design (i was trying help hawks) ,because i let him alone and he fought alone almost whole game in his side and he still could hold some strategy points,design improved a lot..

[Krieger Blitzer]

You do realize, that churchills have very weak gun, almost uncapable of penetrating anything harder than PZIV?

Sure.. but they are just usually even earlier available than Pz4s btw!! That was just a thought of which I believe in, maybe I am wrong; however that honestly I believe that I am not...

[Warhawks97]

I didn't say that the Churchills were 'good', I only meant that they weren't 'too bad' which is still meaning 'bad' but at least fine for their current cheap cost and such an early availability! I would actually say that the new buffed Churchills should get a slightly more price increase.. specifically since that the Churchills in real life even weren't anyhow cheaper than Panthers at all btw.
Maybe up to 80 fuel instead of just 60 for now...

I said, that if the only real axis way to win is 88 spam, sd2 spam, massive rocket launcher spam and super range units and when a rebalance would become neccessary i would rather suggest the reverse by lowering cost of certain axis units. Speaking in theory: 88´s would get easier destroyed (like naked 88 destroyable by ligher arty) and also less range (more a support weapon and mulirole weapon that provides back up defense), sd2 changed/removed whatsoever and super range units having normal tank range and allis 76 guns performing better vs Tank IV´s and some allied weapons not so pea shooter anymore (in this game ive rarley lost anything to normal allied rifles or mgs) and esspecially G43 patched to a normal level i then would be really really ok and more than willing to make at least stuhs cheaper (like 380/45 + smoke abilities etc), Tank IV H/J a little bit cheaper (500/70 basic cost, 400/55 after mass prod for the H) and grens also cheaper (like 360- 375 mp or so). The Panther cost arround 700/125 for example and would thus become the main axis battle tank in late game combined with grens.

But simply... pls.... dont let the Defense unsits be the strongest things axis have. Their defense in ww2 had been not bad but (beside atlantic wall) but also not more impressive as those of any other factions defenses, just their tanks had been automatically more usefull in defensive fights due to their superiority in long ranged battles.

So my goal is not to nerf simply axis and buffing alli units without any rebalance, i just want that the way axis are played or most successfully played is being changed... simply from def spam and arty bombing to good assaults with good inf and armor and assault arty as support, not as main force.

Def, Luft, TH and SE docs could be countered with RA, Inf, Inf, and RAF. Which is always a very good super annoying Allies docs formation too!!

Maybe... but RA must be skilled enough


Edit: about churchills:

I still dont know how they will be changed. The first one (MK IV) will keep the 6pdr just with AP rounds available instead of HE? And the second (MK VI or VII) will get 75 mm with HE rounds? Or is the changelog change the one which is being made? (weapon swap between MK IV and MK VI?).

Assuming as it would finally be NOT a weapon swap but ability swap (and not like in changelog where MK VI and MIV swapping weapons) + really bosted armor against most weapons like 50 mm and 75 mm paks then i would also say that the MK IV could get a fuel cost increase of + 10 or (60 fuel instead of 50) and the MK VI + maybe + 5 fuel (65 instead of 60) as a first change.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I believe there might be no need for cheaper Pz4s.. slightly cheaper Stuh?? For sure actually! As that's seriously a good point... 60 fuel is too much for such a late weak tank.

Just that Churchills should perhaps cost from 50 to 65 and again from 60 to 75 fuel and still I don't know about the 95mm arty Churchill too, but anyways about the guns swapping of which u r pointing on; u then have to realize that 'visually' there are almost absolutely no differences between the 6P or the 75mm guns of the Churchill. They look exactly the same like in real life too btw... So I believe that here with this change Markr meant that he modified the pen stats of both guns and then swapped their performance so that the earlier Churchill to have probably the same gun as the Crocodile one.. which is in my opinion really fine and such a good solution from him!


Edit:-
However that it's possible to maybe change or swap their names ^^ As that the first Churchill never had a 75mm As well as the second Churchill never had a 6P on the other hand!!!

Edit 2:-
Or well, well.. just to swap back the guns I guess!
IDK to be honest

[Ezorte]

Love watching the matches, keep posting them!

Also, i would love to being invited for some games too, add me on steam please

steam id: comandantevini

My nickname is: R][S Comandante

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Insane jumbo on min 52, bounced 5 Panther shots

[Krieger Blitzer]

I am afraid Churchills are now having the same of this armor combined with more HP than the Jumbos for sure, without even any price increase! That's my point if anyone does realize it...

I am not saying Churchills armor shouldn't be good.. at all; as they should be even better than Jumbos, however that I am just saying that there must be some more cost\performance wise.

[crimax]

So, you are the new team to defeat in lobby, allies or axis side ... it doesn't matter.
Anyway, axis players didn't build emplacements, bunkers, 88s, etc. they tried to play without camping.

[Warhawks97]

Insane jumbo on min 52, bounced 5 Panther shots

yeah, i hated it. I moved towards with schrecks and away coz i wanted to make that kill with panther to get vet. But even Panther with APCR bounced. I´d really beg the devs to change that. I panther should rarely bounce from any allied tank (only SP and MK VII churchill, but not so frequently from jumbo and not with APCR). I mean the church ace got penetrated and oneshoted by Panther right away without special rounds i think.

I am afraid Churchills are now having the same of this armor combined with more HP than the Jumbos for sure, without even any price increase! That's my point if anyone does realize it...

I am not saying Churchills armor shouldn't be good.. at all; as they should be even better than Jumbos, however that I am just saying that there must be some more cost\performance wise.

They do get more expensive and despite their armor they need either support vs tanks or against inf. MP cost will be fine, fuel could at first go slightly up, thats all.

So, you are the new team to defeat in lobby, allies or axis side ... it doesn't matter.
Anyway, axis players didn't build emplacements, bunkers, 88s, etc. they tried to play without camping.

well, yeah, we didnt want to camp. Generally i forbid all axis players that play with me to use naked 88, stuh/stupa (still some dont listen, but mostly noobs who waste them anyway) and overuse of sd2 and sector arty on enemie ground. Idk if if erich used sector on enemie ground this time.

So yeah, camping with luft/def with 88´s and other fortifications, SE for massive late arty and even TH doc for more AT or smart terror player with more effectively stuka bombing and Panther G use would be kind of too easy probably. But i just dont want to play with 88´s again or anything like that when i am on axis side coz its then just no fun.

[Erich]

Idk if if erich used sector on enemie ground this time.

of course i did ^^,so many emplacements we were with a noob,play like gentleman wouldnt be a great idea

[ShadowIchigo]

This still wasnt the game that was meant to be played. It was supposed to be war, illa and erich.. and me (idek of that would be ok, desogn should take my slot). But yea, thats how the original setup was supposed to be. Having a noob player on team can really drastically change the tide of battle, unless heavy defences were being used which can really lock a section of the map up. But yous didnt even do that so ofc one side was going to face an eventual collapse

[Warhawks97]

This still wasnt the game that was meant to be played. It was supposed to be war, illa and erich.. and me (idek of that would be ok, desogn should take my slot). But yea, thats how the original setup was supposed to be. Having a noob player on team can really drastically change the tide of battle, unless heavy defences were being used which can really lock a section of the map up. But yous didnt even do that so ofc one side was going to face an eventual collapse

the first team was: Me, quastor, DerBosshafteBoss, Erich. It was HR and we got a good start (big defence up before we faced any resistant) just erich crashed and so i left also. DerBosshafteBoss told me that he was easily fighting two at the same time just that our bots (erich and mine) did nothing. When i asked DerBosshafteBoss for new game he refused coz he was scared that erich would crash again. Illa didnt want to play and so we had to arrange the game with that guy who was obviously coming freshly from vcoh and i forgot switching back to 50 mm pak (which would have been perfectly against all these TD´s, aa tanks and vehicles) as i kept the leig18 when i played against you last time^^. And our mate obviously didnt know about the value of a 50 mm pak or Terror Grenadiers.

[ShadowIchigo]

This still wasnt the game that was meant to be played. It was supposed to be war, illa and erich.. and me (idek of that would be ok, desogn should take my slot). But yea, thats how the original setup was supposed to be. Having a noob player on team can really drastically change the tide of battle, unless heavy defences were being used which can really lock a section of the map up. But yous didnt even do that so ofc one side was going to face an eventual collapse

the first team was: Me, quastor, DerBosshafteBoss, Erich. It was HR and we got a good start (big defence up before we faced any resistant) just erich crashed and so i left also. DerBosshafteBoss told me that he was easily fighting two at the same time just that our bots (erich and mine) did nothing. When i asked DerBosshafteBoss for new game he refused coz he was scared that erich would crash again. Illa didnt want to play and so we had to arrange the game with that guy who was obviously coming freshly from vcoh and i forgot switching back to 50 mm pak (which would have been perfectly against all these TD´s, aa tanks and vehicles) as i kept the leig18 when i played against you last time^^. And our mate obviously didnt know about the value of a 50 mm pak or Terror Grenadiers.

Well let us try with u erich design and myself next time.