"Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

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Warhawks97
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"Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby Warhawks97 » 01 Jun 2015, 22:02

Such games..... such games.... i want endless arty. And when i did such games as axis i always wished that someone will bomb my ass so hard but nobody could.

2 def, 1 luft and one se doc..... better than any axis offensive doc. One spammed grens with def boni, one 88´s, luft 88´s as well and SE simply arty. We would need two arty docs to kill that shit but then we had nothing for offense.

It was my last game in BK for sure.


Maybe i shouldnt have uploaded my 88 games here.... everybody is copying this style now.


Instant camp with HMG´s and paks. Finally 88 and doing offensive camping. And we smashed their early camping very well with calli jeeps, 75 mm HT etc. But still we lost.

not more to add to this shit.



Oh, btw what i noticed in games with AB. Why do i upgrade armor piercing rounds for my p-47 mg straffing when it cant even kill fucking marders or Wespes with 10 mm armor and open top?! fix it.



and YES WE DID MISTAKES: But i also dont always only want to play with super pros just to win a damn game vs average axis. Note pls that conan is new and he got the 88 spam tactic from me. We played together already as axis and we won quite often that way against much more experienced players (which btw got screwed away from bk when they lost against our 88´s just like i do for now). The screenshots below are from other players in another lobby where they filled all 3 axis slots and waiting for allis.
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and right before i join this game (where i first wanted to play axis but switched to allis to get players) i do see another game in lobby which is again a 3 vs 3 with filled axis slot on La Fiere. I have thousands of such screenshots but this time i simply show the last three i´ve made.
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2015-06-01_00001.jpg

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Tiger1996
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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby Tiger1996 » 01 Jun 2015, 23:45

I honestly downloaded the replay just to know about what teams are filled with which kind of players as that u actually didn't mention anything regarding this.. for some unknown reasons! However that I don't think I will ever watch it, simply because I don't like 4v4s...
So; u, Erich, Crimax and ursus playing as Allies against Hartsock, Kwok, Conan, and Lequand.

Conan isn't a new player. I can remember having a 1v1 with him once close when he was TH while I was Armor doc on the map Angoville... Although I still won at the end killing his JT too using a Hellcat only with 2 shots somehow :D Yet he was decent anyways!

But I am wondering really... What could these uploaded photos prove anyhow??!! Those players for me just obviously seem to be having such a bad stats with all factions being almost equal with all of them as whatever by Allies or even Axis! So what?!


-Huh, speaking about campers btw?! Alright, take Conan (with ur and also his awesome freaky 88s) and then go find someone called "Lennart" whom is a 'Brits only' player who keeps hosting narrow 2v2 games on the small map Wolfheze. Both him and his mate will be CW Arty docs... :P Have fun and show me how ur 'OP Axis arty' may be helping u in order to last more than 15 minutes hopefully there ^^

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Warhawks97
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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby Warhawks97 » 02 Jun 2015, 00:21

Tiger1996 wrote:I honestly downloaded the replay just to know about what teams are filled with which kind of players as that u actually didn't mention anything regarding this.. for some unknown reasons! However that I don't think I will ever watch it, simply because I don't like 4v4s...
So; u, Erich, Crimax and ursus playing as Allies against Hartsock, Kwok, Conan, and Lequand.

Conan isn't a new player. I can remember having a 1v1 with him once close when he was TH while I was Armor doc on the map Angoville... Although I still won at the end killing his JT too using a Hellcat only with 2 shots somehow :D Yet he was decent anyways!

But I am wondering really... What could these uploaded photos prove anyhow??!! Those players for me just obviously seem to be having such a bad stats with all factions being almost equal with all of them as whatever by Allies or even Axis! So what?!


-Huh, speaking about campers btw?! Alright, take Conan (with ur and also his awesome freaky 88s) and then go find someone called "Lennart" whom is a 'Brits only' player who keeps hosting narrow 2v2 games on the small map Wolfheze. Both him and his mate will be CW Arty docs... :P Have fun and show me how ur 'OP Axis arty' may be helping u in order to last more than 15 minutes hopefully there ^^



There are some players that always host their fav maps. Either they are Axis then they play Duclair/Autry HR as axis or Wolfheze (as you said)/lorraine allis (HR).


What i want to say that there are situations in this game which cant be solved even when holding 2/3 of the map. Means currently its Def>Arty. And when own arty is harassed by enemie arty then often pure defensive playing (or offensive camping) is more or less 95% win chance. So on their crusade to reduce arty they forgot to thinkg about Arty/def balance.

And Conan is relatively new. A week ago or so he played with me and he took luft but instead using sd2 and 88 he only used two gebirgsjäger units and spammed panther D´s. but since last week when i showed him 88/sd2 combo and when i told him that allied are unable at a certain point to crack defenses he started also using this defensive/offensive camp style and suddenly he wins an ammount of games. So he was new 3 or 2 weeks ago not knowing anything really about units etc.

The screenshots.. well.... since about a half year or more i started doing screenshots of players stats. Arround 900. And besides a few examples there are many with decent and good (positiv axis stats) and usually bad and sometimes horrible allis stats. There are a few examples like shadowichigo, Timay or this chao chao. Most of the time you see lobbies (either 2 vs 2 HR games autry, duclair) or 3 vs 3/4 vs 4 with full axis slots waiting for some allied.

The screenshots are just "snap-shots" what i see all the time in BK when waiting in lobby. This game was btw one of the very few allis games i did in the past weeks. Teamfights with allis are most of the time just frustrating. Esspecially when such crazy defenses are being build up.

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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby Tiger1996 » 02 Jun 2015, 02:16

Well, if all just went fine accordingly with the already introduced suggestions... SD2 will be then having more recharging time and an increased cost too! Bunkers will be only available for both the Def and the SE docs as well.. while the Inf doc 107mm mortar emplacements are also going to have less HP.
U at least gonna get a slightly more improved situation with these changes ;) While surely I can't say that they are anyhow going to be a complete arty issue solving project; But maybe that's all what could be done I guess.

If u would know... It's obvious that Wolf actually seem to be less interested generally about it or rather busy being not in mood for it at all currently, which is something not delightful to be clear.
However that I don't know to be honest :P Let's see!! ^^
Last edited by Tiger1996 on 02 Jun 2015, 02:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby JimQwilleran » 02 Jun 2015, 02:27

Poor Hawks. As I read your posts throughout this forum, I have such an impression:

You have treated this mod like your very good friend. You were both having a great time together. Bk was a different from other friends, he was more entertaining, the emotions were more intense... He let you develop your interests near his side, he sparked a fire of inspiration for some exciting research. He gave you many chances to improve your knowledge and use it. You were very proud of your friend and you told everybody about him. You were speaking long and loud about his advantages, wanted people to admire him. Treating him like a good friend was connected to taking care, so you did your best. You were talking about him becoming even better, raised awareness about his possible weaker sides but also kept looking for even more improvement for him and the friendship of you both. You were patient and consequent like a real German you are. Many things were changed in according to what you said. Finally you explored and learned Bk secrets which were known to almost no one...

Eventually, you spent long, very long time with Bk. You watched him changing gradually. Some changes you approved, some were unpleasant and even though you protested against them they happened anyway. But still, you remembered the old times with your pal, even if the new times were not so bad... All that mattered was that... it was still him. With your knowledge of subject, with your experience and eloquence you considered yourself an expert of Bk, and doubtlessly you are and will be a one for everybody. One of the old guard.

But then slowly something started to change even more. The time spent with Bk was not so entertaining anymore. Small irritating things were becoming even more and more annoying. Somehow your friend was turning into something you didn't wanted to see. You forgot about your own entertainment by his side and devoted yourself to fix your friend, like a real best friend. After each game you analyzed every detail, you were inventing new ways to change things for better. It was not resembling fun anymore. It was a hard work.

You tried you use your persuasion supported by facts and well-thought ideas. But often you started discussions which passed without anyone replying. It was obvious that it is you who cares the most about the mod! However somehow it seemed like people are less and less paying attention to what you said... They claimed that your long posts are "too long". No big arguments were catchy, but short phrases. People got used to you and, as it were, stopped noticing you. Your experience and knowledge seemed to ironically turn against you.

It started to be even more frustrating as you watched people proposing changes, as you spoke with devs, as you were giving still more and more arguments but, as a perfectionist, you felt that the mod is not improving... It was like tilting at windmills. An example, u saw unemplaced 88 as very hard to kill, you were talking many many times about it. But everybody was denying or ignoring it, weren't they? Even if someone agreed, it practically meant nothing...

Eventually you started to use emotions and radical ways to make people notice your postulates, as radical as 88 spam. But more or less to your horror, instead of gaining support for your cause, it provoked a wave of dissatisfaction of what you were doing. Instead of a change, you, speaking brutally, caused the 88s to be even more problematic by learning many players to spam them.

Seeing that everything you do is unsuccessful you started to doubt. And I must say that I am very sorry that it is happening, because I find almost all of your ideas regarding the mod as very accurate.

Finally the bitter conclusion of this story........ "It was my last game in BK for sure." I am really, very sorry about that.

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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby Tiger1996 » 02 Jun 2015, 02:49

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha... What a commiseration full of such aphorism!!!!!! LOL!!

Well, well.. I think I was one of those who strongly helped Hawks with implementing some of his ideas actually; he can't deny that ^^ Could he do so someways I wonder?! :P

But to be frank... Wolf is not a magical tool guys! Come on!!! :D

Yet, I never believed Hawks a time anyways that he would give up playing Bk anytime when he already said it several times before ;)

Be grateful with what u have here! Be joyful......

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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby JimQwilleran » 02 Jun 2015, 03:03

I wasn't joking... And you are odious.

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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby Tiger1996 » 02 Jun 2015, 03:10

Hmm, I don't honestly think that even Hawks himself would be happy with what u have just called me with!
I guess I know him more than u do... I believe he simply won't quit Bk.. u obviously exaggerated too much with ur text for no real reason o.O

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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby Warhawks97 » 02 Jun 2015, 13:26

Tiger1996 wrote:Hmm, I don't honestly think that even Hawks himself would be happy with what u have just called me with!
I guess I know him more than u do... I believe he simply won't quit Bk.. u obviously exaggerated too much with ur text for no real reason o.O



I stopped playing BK once when stupa was crazy OP (long before you joined BK). I stopped untill stupa got fixed. And now i will stop untill untill 88´s are fixed and untill arty/arty balance is Arty/def balance in teamfights is done. When you see me playing coh in steam then its probably vcoh or watching BK replays.

You should also now that some players in BK dont allow me to play axis anymore. And illa is currently supporting me in important matters about BK (and sukin sometimes). But if you havent noticed there was a long list of players in old forum which either supported me in important matters or which had the same opinion. If you want i can send you the list of players (of which some a screwed away with my own axis camping style. The last one elpiojoxp that got screwed away when me and my mate used 88/stuh camping against him.

Also i got requests to help to develope a mod for coh 2. Mainly in the subject balancing, unit cost and performence, doctrines. The mod is made by players i did play with bk a longer time ago.

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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby Tiger1996 » 02 Jun 2015, 15:10

-U just said exactly the same when the Stupa got +5 more range in last the patch... But anyways! :P

-Nothing is wrong with 88s to be fixed.. because it's just the same if u play Blitz or Terror against Brits campers on the other hand as well. Plus that I don't usually find a lot of problems in order to kill any of those 88s specifically while using the Armor doc!! I suffer more against 17p emplacements to be honest... Ever seen an Axis 75mm AT gun emplacement being built by any Axis Def doc player??!! If 88s are weaker, it's then clearly a gg for Allies. U get the earliest arty ever.. and it's surely a good piece of arty... The 75mm arty trucks of the CW Arty doc!

Only 1 or 2 Axis weapons seem to be appealing very well against all kind of targets but yet not always appealing even, as they sometimes keep missing so bad. Talking only about the walking Stuka or the Grille! Yet neither any of them is available as early as the Brits 75mm trucks. So It's just fine... I can see no problems here!!

-However that it looks like if u r trying to convince me with that u r right with some of these matters which most of them already got fixed, also maybe with my help too.. although that I already believe u r probably correct about few of them btw! So u don't have to prove by sending to me anything.
My topics here are perhaps always the most popular if u notice, so don't speak like if u were the only well heard one in this place. There are a lot of other great players... Not only u!

-I know about these CoH2 mods, good luck then... :)

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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby Warhawks97 » 02 Jun 2015, 15:35

Tiger1996 wrote:-U just said exactly the same when the Stupa got +5 more range in last the patch... But anyways! :P

-Nothing is wrong with 88s to be fixed.. because it's just the same if u play Blitz or Terror against Brits campers on the other hand as well. Plus that I don't usually find a lot of problems in order to kill any of those 88s specifically while using the Armor doc!! I suffer more against 17p emplacements to be honest... Ever seen an Axis 75mm AT gun emplacement being built by any Axis Def doc player??!! If 88s are weaker, it's then clearly a gg for Allies. U get the earliest arty ever.. and it's surely a good piece of arty... The 75mm arty trucks of the CW Arty doc!

Only 1 or 2 Axis weapons seem to be appealing very well against all kind of targets but yet not always appealing even, as they sometimes keep missing so bad. Talking only about the walking Stuka or the Grille! Yet neither any of them is available as early as the Brits 75mm trucks. So It's just fine... I can see no problems here!!

-However that it looks like if u r trying to convince me with that u r right with some of these matters which most of them already got fixed, also maybe with my help too.. although that I already believe u r probably correct about few of them btw! So u don't have to prove by sending to me anything.
My topics here are perhaps always the most popular if u notice, so don't speak like if u were the only well heard one in this place. There are a lot of other great players... Not only u!



-I know about these CoH2 mods, good luck then... :)



88´s in 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 might be no problem due to lower mp incmome (means you cant build every min one new 88). As you said you seldomly play teamfights where the income can be as high as 400 mp per min and more. And when then a team starts producing one 88 after the other than its really nasty shit and when one 88 covers the other. As tested the unemplaced 88 receives very little damage by light arty (75 mm etc) and off map 105 does also little damage. And 105 also need to score absolut direct hits which only vet priest can currently. And maybe think about it why in EVERY game (3 vs 3 and 4 vs 4) allis do need CW arty doc. Not for fun for sure as people told me that they would wish to play other doctrine combos on alli side (not always arty/armor/AB). Not seldomly more than 50% of the kills made during a game by allis in 4 vs 4 are made by Priests and there is a reason for that.


Anyway. show me pls in a 3 vs 3 or 4 vs 4 (or even 2 vs 2) HOW exactly armor doc can beat unemplaced 88´s when NO teammate uses massively arty! I´d like to see it in a decent teamfight. The one we did at Wolfheze was won by your inf mate using massive arty to crack my 88´s. Also we had no arty at all (one walking stuka) and my mate with TH doc spammed hetzer and IV/70 against commandos which is like spamming M10 or rather fireflys againt Luftwaffe inf. But for playing as silly as we did at wolfheze we could stand long.


with stupa i said when people would start spamming them. Luckily nobody realy noticed that stupa got range buff again. Also most def players now spam 88´s and Immortal grens/AT squads with this defensive upgrade.

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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby Erich » 02 Jun 2015, 16:05

sad that we lost a really good player.Well if the bk2 are being done by players,we can expect a great mod!.

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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby Tiger1996 » 02 Jun 2015, 16:11

Hahahaha, I bet u 100 Dollars that Hawks will never leave it :D He is just playing with ur mind so that what he wants.. may be all achieved without objections :P Although some of his own requests (Which are in fact not only requested by him) already got implemented and some of the few remaining would be achieved like the one of SD2s for example... If u have eyes, go check the inspiring topic change list!

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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby Conan » 05 Jun 2015, 09:31

İm not new player !!!!
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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby crimax » 05 Jun 2015, 10:57

So? Are you happy now ? This the result !!

Right yesterday I was talking with Erich about this ..... What ?
Spam guys ... spam.

When I asked to introduce limitations to some (OP) units and at same time, to reduce the artillery role in the mod, who now complain about spam, was against this! (Hawks? Sukin? Are you here ?).
In the name of the "Freedom to play the way any player want!!!"

And imho, complian now is just ridiculous and "crybaby style" expecially after you and Sukin showed to the community the worse way to play Luft doc! Just doing spam abuse and showing it to the forum. I know, the real intention was to show OP units but you got the opposite result and this is your responsibility!

Any doctrine has many units BUT , right now, players spam only OP units.
6 Bunkers; 5 Flak 88; Hummels, Wespe, Priests and so on .....
The lobby is more full of spammers, day by day, many players countinue to play by spamming anything they can do BECAUSE the mod permit to do it ..... AND you still are against limitations in the name of freedom ..... YEAH !! And, the worst thing, you come here complaining because someone just kicked your ass playing the same way you suggest to play ..... VERY smart !!!
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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 05 Jun 2015, 12:36

I dont care about no limitations, 88s also dont bother me actually, i only did test for show that 75mm arty damage is buged against flaks.

And 88s spam isnt really that katastrophic as Vfa wants to present, its just no more than a simple exegaration, different luft players used to build many flaks years ago (me, impulse, kniaz, wurf, ursus, estado and so on). The thing is that if you ll shout in every game lobby and forum theme "look how OP is this look! omg op, you cant beat it, no chances, when i ll play it there will be also no chances!" people will really belive that its OP and start overusing it. As for me, i had just maybe 5-6 games in bk carier when enemies 88s saved there asses and turned the game into axis favour.

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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby Warhawks97 » 05 Jun 2015, 13:58

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:I dont care about no limitations, 88s also dont bother me actually, i only did test for show that 75mm arty damage is buged against flaks.

And 88s spam isnt really that katastrophic as Vfa wants to present, its just no more than a simple exegaration, different luft players used to build many flaks years ago (me, impulse, kniaz, wurf, ursus, estado and so on). The thing is that if you ll shout in every game lobby and forum theme "look how OP is this look! omg op, you cant beat it, no chances, when i ll play it there will be also no chances!" people will really belive that its OP and start overusing it. As for me, i had just maybe 5-6 games in bk carier when enemies 88s saved there asses and turned the game into axis favour.



you also refuse to play without CW arty doc. When i suggested to try playing a game without priests you refused. Whenever you play against against 88 spammers you had very good arty players in your team. Like cyber, terence (but who also failed to kill it with priests in our game), zhivago. But i also had many games with lots of randoms and they usually never had a chance against 88. Also it may happens that a Hummel kills a vet priest (vet 0 Hummel can oneshot vet 4 priest). What to do then when priests are busy, occassionally killed and the new priests unveted when enemies keep spamming 88´s? Dont tell me its a map problem. I played all 3 vs 3 and 4 vs 4 maps in pvp and only few examples of maps prevent that 88´s are crazy strong. And in fact an SE player just needs to wait untill priest shoots an 88 and just needs to counterfire. So often two priests must do that what axis can do with Hummels, wespes, walking stukas, 88´s, stuhs, hotchkiss, maultier, Grille and neblers etc: defense breaking+ counterarty. So its damn hard to do defense breaking+ counterarty with just two priests in most situations.


@crimax: Yes it was my intention. But its funny that you are angry on me just because i made the community spamming certain units being OP. But is it my fault that they are OP/spamable? Wouldnt it make more sense to provide adequate counter options? But everybody is crying for limits. *sarcasam on* Why not limiting every single unit? recently players complained about "rifle spam" from inf doc? Why not adding limit for rifle squads? *sarcasam off*

But honestly, why not fixing some stuff instead crying for more and more limits? Like as sukin said fixing the bugged damage against unemplaced 88´s dealed by satchels, light arty, off map 105 strike for example. Fixing range? Why has unemplaced 88 more range than emplaced 88? Restore arty balance for late game? Why have axis 4 strong mechanized rocket launcers (basically more with hotchkiss which can also deal some nice damage with 210 mm), 5 SPGS of which three have calibre 150 mm while allis have at all 3 spgs with just 105mm of which one (105 sherman) is inferior to wespe and priest? Why can walking stukas/210 neblers be build so early without any CP while calli sherman as sample cost lots of CP´s and MP? Why can axis build effectively endless 88 howitzers (def doc) while normal 105 howitzers are limited? Why can axis get neblers and leig 18 in all docs and right in base while allis need and FHQ to get a silly 75 mm pack howitzer? Why can Th doc build hotchkiss very early but RE needs several CP´s and max tier to get slowly moving weak armored 95 mm Arty church? Why have calli jeep and calli sherman longer cooldown than nebler units? Why can axis use arty for free (stuh stupa)? And finally, how can it be that axis have in general the stronger defensive options (alone the fact that their inf and tanks are well suited for ranged combat which alone makes them more usefull as defenseive units in trenches than allis with their mid-close range weapons) but also the better arty and much more anti defense capabilites? In late game teamfights the axis side provided a way more very deadly arty pieces. And once the CW arty player is becoming more busy and under pressure against Hummels then the entire allied arty support is more or less lost and breakhtroughs hardly possible and walking stukas etc can shoot and act wherever and whenever they want.

i dont really understand why nobody else is placing such question. Not necessarily in the public but silently for themselfs.


and when you complain about arty abuse. I already said it would make more sense to try to eliminate the reasons for arty (cost efficencies of units, superior defense weapons like for exmaple why paks can survive so many hits sometimes from other paks/hendheld AT´s/ Tank shots). why arty belongs often to the cheapest units and abilties to kill certain other units.

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Re: "Inf doc dont need 2 priest " haha

Postby Tiger1996 » 05 Jun 2015, 16:33

Ehm ehm??!! (^_^)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAZyjc73Flo

Alright;
-The similar flaming salvo to be available there for both the Sherman105 and the Grille...
-Luft flak 88s should be able to also use 'arty salvo' just like the Def doc ones.. they should be having exactly the same abilities I mean.


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