Propaganda doctrine breaking BK

[Warhawks97]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt66OEGfirk

Just check this out. Seeing such games makes me wonna cry what prop doc has done to BK mod in evey way. This doc has absolutely nothing to do with ww2 or ww2 RTS game at all. Its just "click and cast" doctrine.

This propaganda is way too abusive in terms of cost, cooldown and duration and how, esspecially in teamfighst, can be abused so hard. You can cast these abilities whenever a fight takes place as seen many times here.

Like:

1. You can cast it in an emergency: In one instance an AB squad full of AT weapons failed to kill a scout car just because the prop ability was casted on them a second earlier making them fail with most shots.

2. Multiply your effect of artillery: The HP decrease makes the enemie even more vulnerable to artillery. Thats in particular drastic when your entire team throws nonstop arty at the enemie.

3. "Freeze" your enemie. There is a moment when a cromwell goes into flank speed but morale breaking ability slows them down to like slower than normal, hence making them an easy target for a schreck unit. (45:10). I mean the cromwell had probably died anyways, but still.

4. Turn a sector into an area where your enemie just can win a single fight and where even elite units will lose to any sub-basic infantry unit, making this entire area literally a no go zone.






Finally the artillery:

The 280 mm strike is just so fucking OP. I counted like 5 hits within 5 seconds or so (52:02-52:03). Like WTF! And like 16 hits in total?






I dont see in which way this doc is fun to play in any way. You either death spam your enemie with silly propaganda calls (really, for anyone who understands german, it hurts to hear these stupid sentences from Goebbles himself blasting out of loudspeakers) and orbital strikes or you stand no chance when your ammo income is low.

[Krieger Blitzer]

As for the 280mm & SturmTiger, u know these will be tweaked based on the discussions we had.

And i don't think the Propaganda abilities are that much problematic, but i wouldn't mind allowing them only in friendly territory.

Also, i don't understand why the Allied team had 2x Air docs, not to mention they peacefully allowed me to secure & ob the high ammo & fuel points across the bridge on my side.

I wouldn't build too much balance statements based on this game.

[idliketoplaybetter]

Game is currently very (too much) pro-defensive. Mark my words, games like this will happen more often after this.

Under hour, tower defence/boring ambushes and crawling all over the place midgame and 1shotting arty with 1tank doing the cleaning. GG)
Previously I thought that could be avoided by bigger map choice, not anymore.

[Krieger Blitzer]

What's with the "crawling everywhere" ?? Don't u think this is an over-statement?

Only 1 SAS , 2 SE Sabotage units , 2 infilteration Rangers , 1 Demo Storm , & Storms (only after 7 CP)

Very limited units can crawl, not to mention u have unlimited spotters & wide range spotting vehicles & dedicated spotting units in every faction (Jeeps\Scwimms\all officers\Recce\M20\Vampire\Traingulation\SE spotter HT\dingo, etc) not to mention TDs were made less effective by taking longer to re-hide + getting spotted after 1 ambush strike + spotters got scout ability.. so it doesn't sound like defending has become easier or that crawling is all over the place at all.

[Consti255]

you say the game gets passive, but crawling is one of the only features that makes you advance behind enemy defensive lines and blow stuff up without useing arty or tanks.

It also ends endless games since you can wipe enemys that are vet 3-4 if planned well, which is often not possible with inf heavy docs in later stages.

And as Tigar mentioned, you literally have so much possibilitys to counter it, but if you dont use them, i agree, crawling can be frustrating.

It still can be avoided with bigger maps, but passive camo is going to kick in even more on them.

[idliketoplaybetter]

I doubt this is or ever was about Number of units that can do anything, but what is Used and How. I see what people do and how they play.

You don't have to risk recon/jeep-bike when u have invisible Recons de-camo another Invisible units. Even smoke has gone, few people ever used it in near patches and even less now.
Elite and Heroic infantry is all over the place. Every game it's the same. Few first CP's for "Infantry" - rest into Panthers/Shermans.
Majority play Luft and SAS (not a Dev's fault ofc).

Strafe 90% defence measure now against whatever blob u see, ironically, cause that's where AA's of your opponent can't reach it. It also more effective than any Arty now (except of 1shotty rocket funzzz))

Thing is not about Crawling itself and as Const tried to say "its the best way to advance". We literally now get squads constantly bashing into each other in camo on the frontline.

I played this game on Hill whatever map yesterday night, it was nightmare.

I literally predicted twice his House choice on where the fkn Stormsquad will come up and put my Flame guys to it, before he even showed up doc. It was in the air guy will do BK doc to me.

1 attack and attempt. 1 unit at the time, until u can crawl Elites everywhere. That was strategy play. Tower fkn defence. Then it changed to me tryign to Crawl into his "frontline".

I even went those useless 105mortar emplacement, that you are never teching unless opponent is..somewhere doing something. They are always late, as if you didnt go either Ranger brench or Arty brench ur screwed to Nebels/Panther in a time to get it. It's just I could and I did. Wave after wave throwing arty back on crawling semi-camo Storms.

What a time to be online..

Advance you call it guys? He skipped everything and went right for the Panther. Even maultier came out later

[idliketoplaybetter]

And just to swiftly point out. I would never blame Devs for anything that happened, right I am of my tastes about game or not. But the near changes are obviously Patronising over what had been tendency for years. Peoples willing to use just Elites and Heroics and 1click thingys..

[Warhawks97]

I wouldn't build too much balance statements based on this game.

This game wasnt balanced in my opinion. Right at the loadingscreen i knew which team would win by just reading the names. And yes, allied doc pick was super bad. But thats not my point.

Seeing this doc "in action" just makes me wanna cry. I am not having so much problems with the Vsturm idea mixed with Tiger tanks. The main prob i have with it is this silly "shouting" at the enemies. I mean idk if you understand German language or what these "propaganda loudspeeker guy" is shouting at the enemie. I just feel like watching a super bad parodie or even cartoon ww2 movie rather than playing a serious WW2 RTS game.
And i spare any comments of rockets falling down the sky in such a tight area or any of these stupid areal bombardment bullshit that are striking with a density and up throttled quick succession that isnt healthy for this game anymore.

So:
1. We have to find something better than these "magic Nazi Loudspeeker from Heaven" that makes any enemie unit shake and awestruck instantly.
2. We have to get rid of orbital bombardments.

[Consti255]

What about a debuff form arty?
After unlocking certain CP, arty inflict debuffs which slows,debuffs accuracy and recieved damage?
this will be mainly powerfull with nebels.
You can bring it back to the explosions and aswell the unique sound of the rockets beeing fired and not a wired german who shouts at enemys to debuff them.

Overall, i think prop doc should be the wunderwaffen doc, we have so much freedom to design it with debuffs instead of this point and click sadness.

[Krieger Blitzer]

So:
1. We have to find something better than these "magic Nazi Loudspeeker from Heaven" that makes any enemie unit shake and awestruck instantly.
2. We have to get rid of orbital bombardments.

1. As i said, i think Propaganda abilities aren't that much problematic, but i'd welcome if they are used only in friendly territory.

Also here is an idea as well, got inspired by what Consti said...
How about that these Propaganda abilities would be merged with any off-map arty? So, any units located in an area where u call off-map arty will be debuffed for a few seconds before the arty strike lands. It could also be viewed as an alarm for the opponent player that arty is incoming as soldiers got scared... in fact; now that i think about it; this could also serve as an alarm for the 280mm arty strike instead of the background sound.. or both, the sound & the debuff as an alarm.

2. The only brutal "orbital strike" is the 280mm currently.. but i wouldn't generalise any further.
For example, i know u complained about the officer's off-map before.. it's actually not that deadly and can be avoided (in this game the sniper escaped it 2 times) and by the way.. if u speak about orbital bombardments, let me remind you that the Officer's off-map is nothing compared to RA doc spotters off-map, which i am still fine with both.

RA doc spotters off-map is cheaper, and the spotter is hidden (u can't see when he calls it) and way more deadly against both inf & vehicles.. with high crit chance, yet; i am fine with it.

[Shanks]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt66OEGfirk

Just check this out. Seeing such games makes me wonna cry what prop doc has done to BK mod in evey way. This doc has absolutely nothing to do with ww2 or ww2 RTS game at all. Its just "click and cast" doctrine.

This propaganda is way too abusive in terms of cost, cooldown and duration and how, esspecially in teamfighst, can be abused so hard. You can cast these abilities whenever a fight takes place as seen many times here.

Like:

1. You can cast it in an emergency: In one instance an AB squad full of AT weapons failed to kill a scout car just because the prop ability was casted on them a second earlier making them fail with most shots.

2. Multiply your effect of artillery: The HP decrease makes the enemie even more vulnerable to artillery. Thats in particular drastic when your entire team throws nonstop arty at the enemie.

3. "Freeze" your enemie. There is a moment when a cromwell goes into flank speed but morale breaking ability slows them down to like slower than normal, hence making them an easy target for a schreck unit. (45:10). I mean the cromwell had probably died anyways, but still.

4. Turn a sector into an area where your enemie just can win a single fight and where even elite units will lose to any sub-basic infantry unit, making this entire area literally a no go zone.






Finally the artillery:

The 280 mm strike is just so fucking OP. I counted like 5 hits within 5 seconds or so (52:02-52:03). Like WTF! And like 16 hits in total?






I dont see in which way this doc is fun to play in any way. You either death spam your enemie with silly propaganda calls (really, for anyone who understands german, it hurts to hear these stupid sentences from Goebbles himself blasting out of loudspeakers) and orbital strikes or you stand no chance when your ammo income is low.

You are a fan of the allies, forever...and for people like you, bk mod lost many players

[Warhawks97]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt66OEGfirk

Just check this out. Seeing such games makes me wonna cry what prop doc has done to BK mod in evey way. This doc has absolutely nothing to do with ww2 or ww2 RTS game at all. Its just "click and cast" doctrine.

This propaganda is way too abusive in terms of cost, cooldown and duration and how, esspecially in teamfighst, can be abused so hard. You can cast these abilities whenever a fight takes place as seen many times here.

Like:

1. You can cast it in an emergency: In one instance an AB squad full of AT weapons failed to kill a scout car just because the prop ability was casted on them a second earlier making them fail with most shots.

2. Multiply your effect of artillery: The HP decrease makes the enemie even more vulnerable to artillery. Thats in particular drastic when your entire team throws nonstop arty at the enemie.

3. "Freeze" your enemie. There is a moment when a cromwell goes into flank speed but morale breaking ability slows them down to like slower than normal, hence making them an easy target for a schreck unit. (45:10). I mean the cromwell had probably died anyways, but still.

4. Turn a sector into an area where your enemie just can win a single fight and where even elite units will lose to any sub-basic infantry unit, making this entire area literally a no go zone.






Finally the artillery:

The 280 mm strike is just so fucking OP. I counted like 5 hits within 5 seconds or so (52:02-52:03). Like WTF! And like 16 hits in total?






I dont see in which way this doc is fun to play in any way. You either death spam your enemie with silly propaganda calls (really, for anyone who understands german, it hurts to hear these stupid sentences from Goebbles himself blasting out of loudspeakers) and orbital strikes or you stand no chance when your ammo income is low.

You are a fan of the allies, forever...and for people like you, bk mod lost many players

*facepalm*
Believe whatever you want. I would have played prop doc a lot more. But I prefer to play Dota 2 when I am in mood for magic spells.

Prop doc is the doc that makes no fun. I would like to improve the doctrine to be more than "super hero tank" and spamming "magical casts" non-stop.