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3 vs 3 Beta What can i do?

Posted: 21 Jul 2020, 22:49
by Warhawks97
This is Ridiculous


You can outspam everything with F2´s and outgun even e8´s.... funny.


So


What i do with pesky little german mini Tiger spams:

Allies:

Kwok
Robert
Figree

vs
Axis:

Mencius
Wald
Me
6p_reversed_defence.2020-07-18.01-36-20.rec
(3.65 MiB) Downloaded 9 times


What little shitty allied Tanks can do:

Axis:
Wald
Ogro
Figree

vs

Allies:
Me
Mencius
SharleBu


6p_hill112.2020-07-21.23-39-56.rec
(3.25 MiB) Downloaded 6 times


Now tell me this is fair. One side can charge into whatever AT gun... the other side blows up once someone is sneezing.


The Stugs wipes any allied medium Tank with ease and is quite arty immune.
The other sides TD´s get frontal charged by Tanks and die.

Re: 3 vs 3 Beta What can i do?

Posted: 22 Jul 2020, 18:27
by kwok
I have a replay to add to the discussion

Re: 3 vs 3 Beta What can i do?

Posted: 22 Jul 2020, 20:04
by Warhawks97

Thx for showing us that you make the same experience as we all do.
I mean I think what I showed was armor doc getting triple digit kills and double digit deaths (i wish i saved the victory screen). Maybe allies didn't do it the way YOU wanted them to do it, but to say that there's NO options and it's UNVIABLE to go armor I think is super wrong. You ask in this post "What can i do?" and my replay shows one option of "what you can do". It doesn't seem like you're sincerely asking "what can you do" when multiple teammates showed multiple methods of dealing with stugs and panzer 4's. I can easily go find replays of 76's killing a ton of stuff if you want. I also tested with redgaarden the efficiency of 57mm AT guns over multiple runs. They don't really perform the way you described. But i'll save that for a different post.

Re: 3 vs 3 Beta What can i do?

Posted: 23 Jul 2020, 10:00
by Krieger Blitzer
Oh... So the Allies sucked in the regular version, and also in BETA???
NERF AXIS!!! Rrrriiigggghhhhttt.
it's starting to get ironic, it's like a never ending cycle of whining "Allies suck" ....

Re: 3 vs 3 Beta What can i do?

Posted: 23 Jul 2020, 10:11
by Warhawks97
Krieger Blitzer wrote:
23 Jul 2020, 10:00
Oh... So the Allies sucked in the regular version, and also in BETA???
NERF AXIS!!! Rrrriiigggghhhhttt.
it's starting to get ironic, it's like a never ending cycle of whining "Allies suck" ....

Because their god damn fucking tanks have NOT GOT CHANGED AT ALL IN BETA! The W shermans had some HP increase but cost also went up over the years while their killing power remained completely untouched.

I watched replays and tried to count the shots fired of 76 guns against F2´s and other medium Tanks and also their TD´s. And the Majority of the engagments were complete desasters, even when you had the advantage of making the first shot and using ambushes.

They once fixed the 90 mm to be actually working. But the 76 is still total garbage and only the towed 76 mm gun does have some sort of potential.


So its all about Tanks and axis players start to figure it out. In recent games i only faced double BK doc and Tank support doc and all three going for spam of F2´s and stugs which all cost less than an e8 on mass-production. Yet going to win head on battles against them.

To get the values: Basic e8 is an 500 MP (70 fuel) tank that drops to 400 MP after massproduction. But cost lots of tec and twice the fuel upkeep of any axis medium, even more than Panther.

An F2 cost no CP and just 390 MP and i think 50 fuel at default. Even less with all the mass production shit. The Tank IV J with vastly better armor costs just 410 MP and can bounce pretty much all 57 mm AT and usually surviving a volley of zooks, often bouncing one of them.


And these tanks come quick and in numbers and at that time the only defense you encounter for the most part are some 57 mm HT and perhaps the first M10.

The only real unit that seems to be working is the RL jeep.


I dont even want to start about the Stugs which cost right away 400 MP but are able to stop Jumbos and even Pershings with relatively good success.


watch the god damn replay (esspecially kwoks) and tell me when you can see a 76 gun actually succeeding. And if only after a though fight and taking losses/damage by its own. Go ahead, show me outstanding moments of M10´s and 76 shermans.

Re: 3 vs 3 Beta What can i do?

Posted: 23 Jul 2020, 10:25
by Mantis
Krieger Blitzer wrote:
23 Jul 2020, 10:00
Oh... So the Allies sucked in the regular version, and also in BETA???
NERF AXIS!!! Rrrriiigggghhhhttt.
it's starting to get ironic, it's like a never ending cycle of whining "Allies suck" ....
+1

Re: 3 vs 3 Beta What can i do?

Posted: 23 Jul 2020, 12:05
by Warhawks97
Mantis wrote:
23 Jul 2020, 10:25
Krieger Blitzer wrote:
23 Jul 2020, 10:00
Oh... So the Allies sucked in the regular version, and also in BETA???
NERF AXIS!!! Rrrriiigggghhhhttt.
it's starting to get ironic, it's like a never ending cycle of whining "Allies suck" ....
+1
Whenever you have been in match, you wanted to play only axis: Luftwaffe to be precise. I remember you left a 2 vs 2 in which you should have played on allied side.


Also, besides a few sentences, you have not shown the opposite that 76 mm guns doesnt suck in 80-90% of the times.
Or show me a game in which M10´s will win their engagments in more than 50% of all cases.


I will wait for a replay that proof the effectivness of 76 mm guns in which they dont fail in cruical moments.
And with cruical i mean i dont want to see late stage games in which like 3-4 tanks shoot with HVAP against a target and kill it or when the game is already decided before the Tank stage starts. With cruical i mean when the tank stage starts and when your survival depends on the 57 mm AT HT or the M10´s. My 50 mm and Stugs dont disappoint me as often as these units do.

Re: 3 vs 3 Beta What can i do?

Posted: 23 Jul 2020, 15:46
by kwok

Thx for showing us that you make the same experience as we all do.
I mean I think what I showed was armor doc getting triple digit kills and double digit deaths (i wish i saved the victory screen). Maybe allies didn't do it the way YOU wanted them to do it, but to say that there's NO options and it's UNVIABLE to go armor I think is super wrong. You ask in this post "What can i do?" and my replay shows one option of "what you can do". It doesn't seem like you're sincerely asking "what can you do" when multiple teammates showed multiple methods of dealing with stugs and panzer 4's. I can easily go find replays of 76's killing a ton of stuff if you want. I also tested with redgaarden the efficiency of 57mm AT guns over multiple runs. They don't really perform the way you described. But i'll save that for a different post.

TLDR: Your post insincerely says "What can I do?" when it should really say "I think 76 guns are underperforming" which there's going to be more people agreeing/disagreeing on.

Re: 3 vs 3 Beta What can i do?

Posted: 23 Jul 2020, 18:57
by Warhawks97
kwok wrote:
23 Jul 2020, 15:46

Thx for showing us that you make the same experience as we all do.
I mean I think what I showed was armor doc getting triple digit kills and double digit deaths (i wish i saved the victory screen). Maybe allies didn't do it the way YOU wanted them to do it, but to say that there's NO options and it's UNVIABLE to go armor I think is super wrong. You ask in this post "What can i do?" and my replay shows one option of "what you can do". It doesn't seem like you're sincerely asking "what can you do" when multiple teammates showed multiple methods of dealing with stugs and panzer 4's. I can easily go find replays of 76's killing a ton of stuff if you want. I also tested with redgaarden the efficiency of 57mm AT guns over multiple runs. They don't really perform the way you described. But i'll save that for a different post.

TLDR: Your post insincerely says "What can I do?" when it should really say "I think 76 guns are underperforming" which there's going to be more people agreeing/disagreeing on.

Your arty player did the job together with the inf doc. You and Figree were down in terms of unit and res. And Panthers, which were available en mass basically but not used, would have steamroled the way we got.

You just farmed at the very end what remained and BK player as well as SE player did not use their best AT. Only light armored stuff and no Nashorn.

It was the CW inf units that carried the game in the center, the constant arty barrages sparrows push on the left dealing with most defenses.


I can upload a game at hill 112 in which Dondreon won the game for us basically alone with RAF doc. But i had the best score with armor doc although i just farmed the kills in the very end, just as you did.

So yeah, Pershings died even though you guys were already winning to which the Pershings contributed just a bit.
It was more the constant unit waste of Luftwaffe player, the good CW Arty player, the lack of Ressource usage from Egungun who had many times over the capabilties and the ressources (almost 2000 MP and 200-300 fuel) to spam the shit out of any of you with Panthers.

And, the most funny part is that they never ever upgraded the fuel point while you guys did. Though they had always more of it than you guys did.


And you guys spend lots of time and effort to make the US armor doc using more shermans. You even delayed the Pershing which in the current state of Armor doc is basically a death sentence as you have figured out by all the complains about the CP cost. Armor doc needs the Pershings to handle Stugs and Panzer IV´s but they cost 9 CP.

So no, Armor doc is not working.



And what pisses us (Wald, Mencius, Malone and so on) off every time is that playing US is always frustrating, even if you win. As axis you can basically go afk for minutes bc once you set up your TD/Stug defense and having repair bunkers up, the game for axis runs literally in automode.
Use some artillery units from time to time and farm CP for Panthers and thats it.



Yes, the 76 is the main reason why US armor in general is broken. But its not just that:


1. Allied TD are just so able to handle Tank III´s while Stugs kill is a real threat even to pershings and blowing up jumbos.
2. Their 0 CP arty is garbage when you compare it to the Maultier for example
3. Even if you have the controle over fuel and map controle, you will find yourself often outnumbered by axis Tanks that still show up earlier. Happened multiple time and always our team had the big question mark in their faces: How is that possible?
4. Their Tanks in general, not just the gun, are cost ineffective. E8 with tons of tec costs 400 CP with mass production etc. Every Tank IV F2 and esspecially stugs are extremely dangerous to them and cost less even without any mass-production upgrade.
Also units like Jacks that cost as much as a Panther D (Jacks A is even more expensive). Yet one is a paper armor TD, the other a multirole tank that can even bounce the most powerfull gun in the game. Every other TD in the game is more cost effective.
5. The 50 mm AT gun is extremely strong even against 76 shermans. The 57 mm becomes literally obsolete with the Tank IV H/J.
6. I dont even want to talk about gun accuracy.
7. Since no Tank except for the Pershing can handle axis tanks, its just a nightmare to pay 9 CP for it when Panthers come for 6 CP at a much cheaper cost.
8. Their tanks just cant tank. A game not long ago my 37 mm AT killed a Sherman from Tiger with three or four shots in a row, all penetrated. You can go ask him if you dont believe me. Or when i got a 50 mm AT gun killing 4 76 Shermans from Agent Dunham in a row. Ive never had a 57 mm doing that against a tank IV H/J, not even against F2´s.



Its not jut the gun, its the overall performance and cost-effectivness of US Tanks.