epic KingTiger last stand

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Krieger Blitzer
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epic KingTiger last stand

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

First time I see Vet.4 King Tiger maybe in years...

Allied

Kwok >>> Armor doc.

Shadow [King RAF] >>> RAF doc, obviously :P

Barnes >>> infantry doctrine.

VS

Axis

Me >>> Luft doc.

Dolphins >>> Terror doc.

TAVARES >>> TH doc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6GEb1X4pSM
Video Thumbnail
Video Thumbnail


Dolphins scoring 11 tank kills and 43 infantry kills with his King Tiger as we try to defend our base! TAVARES was obviously quite tired after like 40 minutes or so, he even just admitted that himself in the comment section.. and btw, it's worth to mention that the opponent team were altogether on Discord while we were not on other other hand, so this was quite a disadvantage to their favor.
Replay file download link is attached in the video description...

Enjoy! :)
Last edited by Krieger Blitzer on 02 Mar 2018, 06:20, edited 2 times in total.

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Sukin-kot (SVT)
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by Sukin-kot (SVT) »

Omg, Tavares was so bad, seems like he can't keep in mind more than 2 units of his own, so many times his units died simply because he forgot/didnt pay attention.

Though, I enjoyed how Tiger played Luft, nice use of Panther + Airstrikes for counteratacks, however you could hold your line way better if you would have built a Hetzer as a back up defence against sprinting M10's.

Edit: I see that commando and infiltration rangers can crawl now, do stormtroopers still have to unlock elite training in order to move in invis? If yes, than its so bad balance wise.

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Krieger Blitzer
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

It might be worth mentioning though that TAVARES best doc is usually Luft doc, but since I took it.. he had to play TH doc. Also, usually he does better than that but he really seemed to be too tired on that game!

It's nice to see a post from you here on the forums by the way.. u haven't posted anything since a long while! :)

As for the StormTroops, hmm.. probably yes! Only the Demo Storm squad can crawl by default now... However, what is even more is that Storms can't crawl with the PanzerShreck even after the veterancy unlock :/ Marine Commandos and infiltration rangers can do that on the other hand, though we should still keep in mind that Marine Commandos are limited to only 1 unit at a time, and infiltration Rangers limited to 2 units and can't pick anything from the ground, so after all it might be fine perhaps...

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sami bosal
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by sami bosal »

that's called the power of good teamwork

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Shanks
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by Shanks »

I can not believe that you lost that game, your team had an advantage, the discord does not matter ... anyway, tavares was the problem this time, so gg

Tor
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by Tor »

Tiger1996 wrote:It might be worth mentioning though that TAVARES best doc is usually Luft doc, but since I took it.. he had to play TH doc. Also, usually he does better than that but he really seemed to be too tired on that game!

It's nice to see a post from you here on the forums by the way.. u haven't posted anything since a long while! :)

As for the StormTroops, hmm.. probably yes! Only the Demo Storm squad can crawl by default now... However, what is even more is that Storms can't crawl with the PanzerShreck even after the veterancy unlock :/ Marine Commandos and infiltration rangers can do that on the other hand, though we should still keep in mind that Marine Commandos are limited to only 1 unit at a time, and infiltration Rangers limited to 2 units and can't pick anything from the ground, so after all it might be fine perhaps...


Marine ok, 1 squad only, but for infiltration rangers... 2 squads enough to everything, you don't buy this bazooka, can crawl at start, and can crawl with bazooka...
As axis, you need buy schreck, can't crawl at start, and can't crawl with schreck at all.
Maybe rangers should buy this bazooka?
But much bigger problem again, you have nothing to find this as axis, if you find with bike (ketten), you lost this unit.

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Krieger Blitzer
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

Tor wrote:Marine ok, 1 squad only, but for infiltration rangers... 2 squads enough to everything, you don't buy this bazooka, can crawl at start, and can crawl with bazooka...
As axis, you need buy schreck, can't crawl at start, and can't crawl with schreck at all.
Maybe rangers should buy this bazooka?
But much bigger problem again, you have nothing to find this as axis, if you find with bike (ketten), you lost this unit.

I've actually had very deep discussions regarding this in the past with the devs when the Marine Commandos were first introduced to the game...
Check this old topic for example: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2076 And therefore, I would say that it's perhaps just fine as it is now so far.. well, maybe unless it's really that much problematic for everyone!

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Devilfish
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by Devilfish »

So this is the glorious Kwok's idea of "Let's play bigger maps, so good". All I see is boring WW1 battle, everybody sitting in trenches behind wall of AT guns and spamming arty into enemy trenches, then huraaaa with inf, retreat, repeat.

Truly spectacular.
"Only by admitting what we are can we get what we want"

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Krieger Blitzer
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

Well, big maps are actually better than small ones.. nonetheless; they still don't change much! That's because Bk Mod does not offer very extended overall combat ranges.. at least when compared to other CoH2 mods such as Wikinger for example... Most tanks in Wikinger Mod can shoot as far as AT guns in BK Mod. Therefore I think small maps are for the vanilla CoH by Relic, but surely not for Bk Mod. The best maps for BK however, are usually the medium sized maps or even large ones.. but extra large maps are not exactly for Bk Mod but more for other mods such as Wikinger and so on.. that's unless Bk Mod would ever probably consider extending the overall combat ranges further at any possible point in the future maybe.

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Warhawks97
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by Warhawks97 »

Use At least one Hetzer. And at least one krad.

It was one of the most interesting games ive seen in recent weeks. With a bit more coordiantion and tavares being a bit more aware.
At roughly min 45-55 you could have made a good push on the right side. Just a bit more aggressive. If tavares would have kept two IV/70 in ambush things could have been different. The M10 killing this ST was epic.

I can just imagine shadows voice and laughing in discord/TS :D

As a critique to allis: Why didnt barns purchase a few more M16? Three of them as AA. It wouldnt have cost him anything when speaking of upkeep. And shadow perhaps a Bofors. You lost way too many tanks to the same cause.

For that battle in the map corner. Sd2 and scout cars could be usefull. But i guess the ammo was more usefull spend in these airstrikes.

These Jagdpanthers could have really made a difference. During your attacks for example.
Last edited by Warhawks97 on 02 Mar 2018, 01:46, edited 1 time in total.
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kwok
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by kwok »

@devilfish
I don't think a king tiger would be able to score so many kills if it were a small map, makes it too easy a target. i also dont think arty was the major killer this game either. and from my perspective (armor) i dont think i'd have so many vetted tanks if it were a small map. from what i recall, a ww1 game involves a lot of emplacements as arty targets, don't think a single emplacement went up. funny enough, i made fake trenches (prob don't want to expose that secret but now i guess i have to so that i can defend my statement). maybe fallsj played it ww1 style but the rest of the game i don't think was arty party.

had it been a small map, i would definitely have not gone armor doc. as armor doc, i at least FELT useful this game instead of just purely a tiger/panther counter.

had it been a small map, those fallsj would have DEFINITELY not gotten that amount of vet... with the amount of accurate arty that wouldve been raining down? at least this is a lot of arty but not accurate.

don't hate it till you play it.


@hawks
wish we had a recorded replay from our side so you can hear our chats. maybe i gotta start doing that from now on.
Last edited by kwok on 02 Mar 2018, 06:15, edited 2 times in total.
Tarakancheg: I want volkssturmm to upgrade to knights cross holders at vet 5 so that I can just show players how bad they are.

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Krieger Blitzer
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

@Hawks
Yes, unfortunately I couldn't get any Hetzers because the building where I could bring them from.. was very expensive. So, pretty much it was either Panthers or Hetzers, and I obviously went for Panthers after all...


Edit: Some posts following to this post has been modified or removed by their author, therefore I had to edit this post and delete the part related in order to stay relevant.
Last edited by Krieger Blitzer on 02 Mar 2018, 06:22, edited 4 times in total.

kwok
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by kwok »

removeable. thanks dr shadow.

EDIT:
fun facts that i discovered

sas have 95 base hp, with upgrade of -25% received damage after 10 CP unlock giving it effective base health of 126
fallsj have 80 base hp * -5% received damage * +10% health * -5% received accuracy giving it an effective 97 base health, with upgrade of -25% received damage after 7 CP unlock giving it effective base health of 129.333 and don't even GET me started on the fuckin gebirgs.
Tarakancheg: I want volkssturmm to upgrade to knights cross holders at vet 5 so that I can just show players how bad they are.

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Krieger Blitzer
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

kwok wrote:fun facts that i discovered

sas have 95 base hp, with upgrade of -25% received damage after 10 CP unlock giving it effective base health of 126
fallsj have 80 base hp * -5% received damage * +10% health * -5% received accuracy giving it an effective 97 base health, with upgrade of -25% received damage after 7 CP unlock giving it effective base health of 129.333 and don't even GET me started on the fuckin gebirgs.

Ya, throughout the game chat at the end I mentioned that SAS are actually more resistant than Luft inf in late game.. apparently I was wrong!
Gotta admit that. However, it might be still arguable if this does really mean that the SAS are less resistant than Luftwaffe infantry or not.. because there are definitely other factors to be kept into consideration too other than just the HP of units, for example; the nature and effectiveness of weapons that each of them are often exposed to deal with.


Though; now I think it's ur turn to admit that you were wrong on the other hand too :D As you also claimed in the game chat that I always dodge you when you play Axis, so here is a balanced 2v2 game from the past where you have played as Axis and lost! ^_________________^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QMqhhfCBbU
Remember, it was you who told me while we were voice chatting together on Discord today, that I should post any videos I find in my playlist that would deny your claims.. despite that I personally don't really care about these stuff! But ya... Here you are then, just as you asked :P Once you go and admit it now, then we are all settled out :lol:

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Viper
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by Viper »

now Tiger be like: goooooooaaaaaaaal :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: lol, this stuff is funny to read :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: almost died laughing :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: if he is honest, he will admit too :mrgreen:

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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by kwok »

Yep, you're right there is an instance where you have played allies and I have played axis. Sorry for the accusations
Tarakancheg: I want volkssturmm to upgrade to knights cross holders at vet 5 so that I can just show players how bad they are.

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Krieger Blitzer
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

It's alright, thanks for being honest too! Everything is now settled out ;)

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Devilfish
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by Devilfish »

Kwok, I didn't make it more than 20 min into the video, was too boring. If you and other participants enjoy this kind of stuff, by all means go for it. But it's hardly a "developer-independent" solution to whatever.
"Only by admitting what we are can we get what we want"

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Warhawks97
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by Warhawks97 »

kwok wrote:fun facts that i discovered

sas have 95 base hp, with upgrade of -25% received damage after 10 CP unlock giving it effective base health of 126
fallsj have 80 base hp * -5% received damage * +10% health * -5% received accuracy giving it an effective 97 base health, with upgrade of -25% received damage after 7 CP unlock giving it effective base health of 129.333 and don't even GET me started on the fuckin gebirgs.



I havent gone into it soo deeplyin this particular matter and dont want right now. Just -25% received damage from all sources?
I would reccommend to check their tp´s. Gebirgs used to have the same as fallis. Tp_ heroic or what it was/is. For fallis it got changed into tp_AB. That change was done in order to make fallis better in closing in maneuvers. Most small arms have reduced accuracy against this target type when its moving by 25%. The downside for fallis now is that they got more vulnerable to HE than Gebirgs bc most HE based weapons -if not all- suffer a damage loss against them . This includes RAF cluster bombs as well iirc. So Fallis can move better under small arms fire, Gebirgs can take more punishment form all the HE stuff. Personally i found it to be a bad change for fallis since fallis are usually countered by snipers or HE units (dedicated anti inf vehicles) rather than by regular small arms. Right now it was perhaps not such a bad move since US can use their small arms more effectively at range. Esspecially Rangers.


So perhaps we have to be carefull with such general statments. There is a lot to calculate and obvious things arent as they perhaps seem to be. Best example currently: 90 mm with ambush and AP vs Achilles with 17 pdr, ambush and AP.


Devilfish wrote:Kwok, I didn't make it more than 20 min into the video, was too boring. If you and other participants enjoy this kind of stuff, by all means go for it. But it's hardly a "developer-independent" solution to whatever.


I actually liked it simply bc it is often less crowded and less arty spam.
However general things that bug me are the same afterall. And i mean particluar combat situations. No matter how much better you run arround with your shermans, at the end you have to face some enemies. And that Tank IV/sherman 76 discrepancy (pen, rof, damage with AP and thus crit and onehshot kill chances for Tank IV against sherman) makes me mad everytime. I have plenty of such examples.
Or that unmobile howitzers quickly find their masters. Esspecially that any shitty rocket artillery can reach them quite easily.
In this special regard i found something very interesting:
In comparision to vcoh the range of nebler and walking stuka has got increased by 50 range (or more). Neblers went from 150 to 200 and thus became a long reaching arty tool. Howitzers on the other hand have lost range. It went from 250 in vcoh to 225 in bk. Sure, cost got lowered but how does lower cost help when you can fire just a salvo before being shot?
In fact, howitzers have been the only units in entire BK universe which range got decreased while short ranged artillery pieces have suddenly tunred into some sort of intercontinental missiles.
In this regard playing vcoh makes a lot more fun. Howitzer close to sherman cost (people might think its "just a gun" but a nebelwerfer takes already 3 months of production. Howitzers were fine pieces of high labour intensity and quality) but that isnt really wrong actually.

So, these things do not change. No matter what map you play.
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kwok
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by kwok »

The only thing I'd still be upset about and not directly at tiger is the GENERAL sentiment of players being so quick to say that they could do nothing in a circumstance and that the reason is "axis ___" or "allies ____". For example, I believe the reason the main drivers of the outcome of this game is because of the reasons Tiger listed below his video: allies was on discord and axis was fatigued. In general it's pretty tiring to have both victories and defeats invalidated.

About fallsj, I'm pretty sure fallsj killing power exceeds SAS as well. The only edge that SAS have is in utility, but that is because they are intended as a different role. But resistance to resistance, I would probably say fallsj are undoubtedly tougher as combat units. Which is also a reason why I do not like picking up the schreck with my falljs. It may not be optimal but I prefer my units to be specialized to execute very specific tasks.
@hawks, i did not include any values that both SAS and Fallsj have in common, such as AB target tables. I kept stats relative.
Last edited by kwok on 02 Mar 2018, 18:05, edited 3 times in total.
Tarakancheg: I want volkssturmm to upgrade to knights cross holders at vet 5 so that I can just show players how bad they are.

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Shanks
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Re: epic KingTiger last stand

Post by Shanks »

My children, do not argue anymore, or I will give you a lesson hahaha

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