ACE Panther

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Tiger1996
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ACE Panther

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Feb 2018, 14:05

Axis

Me -> Terror doc.

Shanks -> SE doc.

Mofeta -> Blitz doc.

VS

Allied

Dolphins -> Armor doc.

Pathfinder -> infantry doctrine.

Aimless -> RA doctrine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8RyILwj1j4
SnapShot(2).jpg
Video Thumbnail


Throughout this game you can see vet.3 Panther.G with 8 tank kills, as well as vet.3 Stug4 with 5 tank kills.. in addition to vet.3 normal Pershing with 6 tank kills. I think there was also an Achilles with 4 tank kills... Replay file download link in the video description, enjoy! :)

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Shanks
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Re: ACE Panther

Postby Shanks » 07 Feb 2018, 20:28

It was a very crazy game, especially when the panther entered enemy territory 8-)

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Warhawks97
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Re: ACE Panther

Postby Warhawks97 » 07 Feb 2018, 22:57

lol, you fought vs major sturmgeist. He was the first player ive met in BK mod. It was back in 2011/12. He stopped in 2012/13 and came back in november/December 2017.

Min 38:08-38:18: Thats why kwok is so right with this:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2498


But lets be honest. There is no second in which allied really seemed to be able to win it. This is 50 mins of allied survival attempt without realistic win chance. Only with a massive coorporation, perfect timing and lucky shots/abilties they could have won this i think.

But during the game just high profile killer units from axis side. Tank IV D (best HE rounds of its type in game), stugs (best no CP tank and very good tank), sdkfz 234 (very fast inf and vehicle basher), Wespe, Nashorn, Panther.


And the SP died just like so often so quick right in the first engagment. Nashorn shot, Arty shot, done. I actually expected the Sturmtiger to simply oneshot it. But well, there are million ways to get killed for the SP. The stuh is just being added to the very long list.

Min 45:20-24: Thats what i am talking about. The ST is "Just for fun". It was so far one of the last unlocks. Panthers already have caused lots of havoc. There was no need for the ST. But you get it just bc its funny. There are schrecks, Panthers, powerfull vehicles, Panthers, Firestorm etc etc etc.... But for the sake of fun, why not get an ST. Just to increase the ultimate frustration for the allied even more (after Panther Nightmare). There was no need to use it or no urgent one. But we just do it bc we love to piss of everyone.

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Tiger1996
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Re: ACE Panther

Postby Tiger1996 » 08 Feb 2018, 11:55

Warhawks97 wrote:lol, you fought vs major sturmgeist. He was the first player ive met in BK mod. It was back in 2011/12. He stopped in 2012/13 and came back in november/December 2017.

Ah, you mean Aimless? Well, that's good to know!


Warhawks97 wrote:Min 38:08-38:18: Thats why kwok is so right with this:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2498

To be honest, I'm not a supporter of tweaking vehicles the way how Kwok suggests.. though, I'm not against trying it out maybe in a test version or so.


Warhawks97 wrote:But lets be honest. There is no second in which allied really seemed to be able to win it. This is 50 mins of allied survival attempt without realistic win chance. Only with a massive coorporation, perfect timing and lucky shots/abilties they could have won this i think.

I think there was definitely a moment when the Allied could have finished the game early on throughout the first 10 minutes of the game when they aggressively attacked my side...

Warhawks97 wrote:But during the game just high profile killer units from axis side. Tank IV D (best HE rounds of its type in game), stugs (best no CP tank and very good tank), sdkfz 234 (very fast inf and vehicle basher), Wespe, Nashorn, Panther.

Well, there were also high profile killer units from Allied side... Don't forget one normal Pershing was vet.3 scoring 6 tank kills, all of them are Panzer4s as far as I'm concerned.


Warhawks97 wrote:And the SP died just like so often so quick right in the first engagment. Nashorn shot, Arty shot, done. I actually expected the Sturmtiger to simply oneshot it. But well, there are million ways to get killed for the SP. The stuh is just being added to the very long list.

Min 45:20-24: Thats what i am talking about. The ST is "Just for fun". It was so far one of the last unlocks. Panthers already have caused lots of havoc. There was no need for the ST. But you get it just bc its funny. There are schrecks, Panthers, powerfull vehicles, Panthers, Firestorm etc etc etc.... But for the sake of fun, why not get an ST. Just to increase the ultimate frustration for the allied even more (after Panther Nightmare). There was no need to use it or no urgent one. But we just do it bc we love to piss of everyone.

SP managed to engage a Nashorn frontally... So, I think it's the player's fault there!
I believe the exact same would happen if a KT would just drive itself into an ambush.. there are also several ways to kill the KT.
Priest can quickly snipe it in 4 direct hits thanks to aimed salvo ability, sticky bombs or gammon bombs can both immobilize it too which would result in a slow death with arty or airstrikes... This would also trigger the user of the KT or pisses him off to some extent btw. KT always comes too late after 11 direct command points, as it's never a surprise anyhow, unlike the SP which might be a surprise after just 9 direct command points, and so at this point, the Allied players at this very late stage of the game would just have so many different options to get rid of the King Tiger, Long Tom would most probably be one of the options to smash the KT instantly "just for fun" too. Airborne planes can do it as well, in addition to Royal Air Force planes! Jacksons are reliable counter to the KT as well...

Not to mention that the SP mostly wins against the KT in most 1 to 1 engagements btw. Also, don't forget the SP in my recent "US Armor" replay managed to score some very valuable kills before it was later killed by the JT, the SP was even vet.3 so I don't really think that the SP "just dies often so quick" as u might think.. in fact, I have seen the SP often being a game changer. And it's easier to maintain some units around the SP to protect it.. at least in comparison to when trying to achieve the same with the KT, that's because the KT is simply the most expensive unit in the game.. the Terror doc player usually wouldn't have enough resources to maintain any units around the KT to protect it, so the KT is often lonely in the battlefield. So in short, I think what really dies often so quickly.. are both the KT as well as the Elefant. KT for the reasons I just mentioned, and the Elefant because of being too slow with a relatively short range. Someone might say "but you can bring Elefant and KT again if they are dead, while it's not possible to bring SP again on the other hand" which is a valid point so far.. but that's why I support the idea of allowing the Pershing ACE after the SP is no longer available.. talking about this suggestion by Mofeta: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2530 as I think it should be actually considered.

However, I have even seen Pershing tanks often being used in numbers to kill the KT frontally, and Comets or Achilles can also kill the KT, just each in a different way, both can simply flank the KT using flank speed.. but the Achilles could also ambush the KT. And this brings me to a different point, as I have seen you speaking about the Hetzer recently.. and it's such a very slow tank by the way.. and therefore I think the flank speed ability for this tank is necessary without a doubt, so I don't think this ability should be ever removed from the Hetzer at any possible point.

Bottom line is, in my humble opinion there is nothing wrong with the SturmTiger at all... Specifically keeping in mind that WH has no destructive airstrikes whatsoever, so the SturmTiger serves as an equivalent perhaps.. though, it's definitely not available as much frequently as airstrikes. Nonetheless, as I previously said.. if anything, then maybe the price of the ST can be increased and rear armor should be weaker.. but that's it.

Tormoz
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Re: ACE Panther

Postby Tormoz » 08 Feb 2018, 12:36

Warhawk pro allie fanboy, nothing more.

kwok
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Re: ACE Panther

Postby kwok » 08 Feb 2018, 16:20

The irony is when people get accused of being allied fanboys even though they play both factions. Meanwhile 40% of the community are axis only players and only like two allied only players exist (but they never post).

It’s almost like when a player tries both perspectives they see imbalances but are argued back against by people who stubbornly only play one side.

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Warhawks97
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Re: ACE Panther

Postby Warhawks97 » 08 Feb 2018, 18:33

Tiger1996 wrote:


SP managed to engage a Nashorn frontally... So, I think it's the player's fault there!
I believe the exact same would happen if a KT would just drive itself into an ambush.. there are also several ways to kill the KT.


The whole point of an ambush is that it ambushes an enemie. If everybody would know where an ambush is there wouldnt be a point of making ambushes, or?

Also which sort of ambush do you think of that kills a KT that easy. Jagdpanther, Nashorn... its all guranteed pen shot with AP and the damage is always a almost oneshot for Nashorn and a extremely possible for Jagdpanther and even IV/70.
So what kind of ambush do you think of? Single achilles that must pray to pen with a damage lower than that of axis TD´s?

Priest can quickly snipe it in 4 direct hits thanks to aimed salvo ability, sticky bombs or gammon bombs can both immobilize it too which would result in a slow death with arty or airstrikes... This would also trigger the user of the KT or pisses him off to some extent btw. KT always comes too late after 11 direct command points, as it's never a surprise anyhow, unlike the SP which might be a surprise after just 9 direct command points, and so at this point, the Allied players at this very late stage of the game would just have so many different options to get rid of the King Tiger, Long Tom would most probably be one of the options to smash the KT instantly "just for fun" too. Airborne planes can do it as well, in addition to Royal Air Force planes! Jacksons are reliable counter to the KT as well...


Nope. Thx to the axis tank resistance to arty (esspecially the heaviest and TH doc) the ammount of damage cant kill a KT with 4 shots. IIrc a accurate barrage wont kill a normal tiger outright.

Units that are "wrongly" put in doctrines or simply doesnt fit in a doctrine is no argument of what the unit is capable of doing. The SP is a must have in late games for armor doc to deal with armor, same as long tom and AB in their doctrines. Having long tom and SP in one doctrine, thats bullshit which should never happen. The difference is, again, that there is a whole arsenal already (in almost every doc) to deal with an SP. Panthers can, most or all axis td can etc.

And the jackson. You would need at least two and even then its a harsh battle.

Also, don't forget the SP in my recent "US Armor" replay managed to score some very valuable kills before it was later killed by the JT, the SP was even vet.3 so I don't really think that the SP "just dies often so quick" as u might think.. in fact, I have seen the SP often being a game changer. And it's easier to maintain some units around the SP to protect it.. at least in comparison to when trying to achieve the same with the KT, that's because the KT is simply the most expensive unit in the game.. the Terror doc player usually wouldn't have enough resources to maintain any units around the KT to protect it, so the KT is often lonely in the battlefield. So in short, I think what really dies often so quickly.. are both the KT as well as the Elefant. KT for the reasons I just mentioned, and the Elefant because of being too slow with a relatively short range.


Which valuable kills?
I am not denying that it can change games and does. And that protection thing is a myth. KT or "Heavy People" do nothing but waiting to get the heavy shit and untill they arrive the battle went so bad that nothing could turn it. It is practically possible to do so. In all cases when i got SP, Tiger ace or whatever expensive "ultimate unit" i did manage to get support arround it. Perhaps as US a bit more of that but not different types. You can have endless shermans arround, its all one type: Armor. KT can get perhaps a bit less in ammount but much more in diversity. It doesnt need much anyway. In my cases 2 gren squads, recon and the standard pio squad that is always on field. As off map there is the firestorm.

Bottom line here: I always had support when i got SP/KT/Jagdpanther/Tigers (ace). If i couldnt afford any, i didnt go for the expensive shit. Or its provided by mates. Luft inf, henschels, Ostwind, stuka (rockets), henschels, wespe. What support can be better than that?



However, I have even seen Pershing tanks often being used in numbers to kill the KT frontally, and Comets or Achilles can also kill the KT, just each in a different way, both can simply flank the KT using flank speed.. but the Achilles could also ambush the KT. And this brings me to a different point, as I have seen you speaking about the Hetzer recently.. and it's such a very slow tank by the way.. and therefore I think the flank speed ability for this tank is necessary without a doubt, so I don't think this ability should be ever removed from the Hetzer at any possible point.


Make 100 tests. 100 times achilles or whatever ambushing KT. And then 100 times Nashorn or the IV/70 ambushing the SP. Same with bazooka squads and schreck squads (esspecially TH doc). The results would be much more devestating for the SP and a lot more frequently ending up in destruction or downed to extrem low HP.

You making jokes about Hetzer or? Its one of my most successfull units and most usefull one. And i barely need flank speed. I used flank speed when i had an opportunity to hunt down stuff like priests (similiar kind of "ice cold" move as i do with schwimmwagens against Heavy AT and M10 or Puma against AT guns). I wait in an ambush, destroy enemie incoming tanks and then activate this for a devestating counter attack. Quite often vehicles like mortar HT or Command tank that moved directly behind the attack force.
So this is really utter bullshit. The ambush of this unit is what kills and the armor that makes it resistant all the medium AT and 76 guns. The flank speed just expands the ambush into a Blitzkrieg counter attack.

This is like saying the Jagdpanzer IV is usless bc it has no flank speed.


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