[5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

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Tiger1996
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[5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Tiger1996 » 15 Dec 2017, 14:35

Once again, I have to say that I admire the new changes to the Comet tank.. and to anyone who thinks that right now Comets are "useless" or whatever, then I recommend you watching this game... It's true I lost some Comets easily.
Nonetheless, they were easily affordable too and still totally payed off their price!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B9PJEOIChA
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Also, nice vet.2 Tiger tank by Frost (his nickname was "Noob" in this video, that's how he called himself for some reason :P) but unfortunately he was quickly frustrated later to see his Tiger tank blowing up in 1 hit by the Firefly and so he immediately left the game afterwards...

Enjoy! :)

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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby MarKr » 15 Dec 2017, 17:24

00h:00m:00s:01ms
(no counsel with the team)Tiger: RE doc
(later)
Nephalem: I'm gonna go armor so we lose
Tiger: ?
Tiger: I am noging RE doc
Tiger: Need Air
Nephalem: yes, I go armor
Tiger: RE and air are OP combo
Nephalem: air too easy
Figree: should I pick arty?
Figree: and camp and win?
Nephalem: XD
Figree: or RAF?
Tiger: you can go RAF
Nephalem: depends if you want to win
Tiger: I want TO

Reminds me of lobby character-picking in a game called Paladins. First person insta-picks his favourite character without discussing team composition and strategy with the others and then he, for some reason, thinks that everyone else must adjust to whatever he picked :lol:
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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Tiger1996 » 15 Dec 2017, 17:30

Funny point, but you are wrong :D Because after all Nephalem went Airborne as I requested, and by the way... I told them before the game starts that I am going to be RE doctrine.. in fact, I can remember we even agreed on the game lobby that one of them should be Airborne doctrine ;)

Often, I play for fun.. but that game I kinda wanted to play serious and win so I can see how far I can go with my new Comets, so I had to remind them that we need to play serious when I felt that they were not willing to ^^

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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Shanks » 16 Dec 2017, 06:36

No offense, but, if the axis team, had been, lehr wurf and noob ( I mean a team of the same caliber) , you were lost !, I honestly do not like the comet, wait 6 CP just for the comet ???, the firefly is much better!

Note: It's just an example of team, there are others!

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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Tiger1996 » 16 Dec 2017, 10:04

Comet can do stuff that Firefly can't do, which is the high speed and overall mobility.. not to mention it's cheaper.
On the other hand Firefly is about long range, higher rate of fire and a bit earlier available.. but therefore more expensive and can't be too fast like the Comet. So, both tanks simply have different roles...

I know Achilles currently can accomplish both Firefly and Comet roles at the same time.. but I guess that Achilles will be tweaked too, or I mean... It should.

If I had the same team (Mofeta and Nephalem) vs Wurf and Lehr, then we could have maybe lost.. yes.
However; what if my mates were Karma Police (Nami) and PoppaSwank (Henny) for example?
We could still win too.

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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Shanks » 16 Dec 2017, 20:01

if they do nerf at Achilles, it would be more shit ...... if your team were karma and popa, they would also lose ... besides, figree is better than popa in pvp, I think your team is going for worse .. .. just wanted to give an example of experienced team in pvp, do not take it badly, the comet does not work !, that's why the allies are at a disadvantage, and the firefly is much better !, to the comet you just kill it with a simple , and insignificant AT of 50 mm ......... does not work !!!

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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Tiger1996 » 16 Dec 2017, 21:15

Dude, the Comet still works ;) It might be worth it even more than before, actually!

Just it was changed from "Pershing with flank speed for almost the price of the Pershing" to be more like a "Russian T-34/85 with good mobility, decent gun and cheap price" and this is much more realistic this way.

So, how exactly Comet does not work? You can still destroy Axis heavy tanks with it and it is much cheaper. Killing vet.0 Tiger tank for example is very possible, maybe not easy with 1 Comet anymore.. but 2 can be enough. And 2 Comets are still much cheaper than Tiger1 so where is the problem??
It might be a bit diificult to kill vet.2 Tiger with 2 Comets though, but that's fine because vet.2 Tiger tank is more like "a grown up Tiger tank" but vet.0 Tiger is still a "baby Tiger tank" if you get what I mean. So against vet.2 Tiger1 you might need 3 Comet then. Which are still "slightly" more expensive than a single Tiger.

You might say "but why do i get 3 Comet to kill Tiger? I can just get 1 Firefly!" That is maybe true.. but can u kill a King Tiger with 1 Firefly??? No, not even with 3 Firefly.. because it will be very hard to flank the KT with a slow tank like the Firefly. While a tank such as the Comet on the other hand can easily flank and KILL the KT. And it is very cheap as I said...

So, you can't say Firefly is better than Comet.. and you also can't say that Comet is better than Firefly, because they just have very different roles. Each has advantages and disadvantages...

But where are the disadvantages of the Achilles now?
It can shoot at long range (like Firefly) thanks to hit and run tactics ability, and it is very cheap.. also has flank speed (like Comet) and in addition to this, it has HE rounds too. Not to mention that it is available too early and for all doctrines and unlimited as well... This is why Achilles need nerf.

Also, you say that u gave me "example of experienced team" but I also gave you an example. If you think Poppa is worse, fine then... I could just have any other player who is experienced too.
And no, if me, Karma and PoppaSwank are in 1 team as Allied and I go RE doctrine against Wurf, Lehr and Frost, we could still win.. but we could also lose... However, either ways the game will be very difficult for both teams, and so both teams can maybe win or even lose. The chances would be more or less equal.. and by the way, we already played as such teams before ;)

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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Henny » 16 Dec 2017, 22:15

Shanks wrote:if they do nerf at Achilles, it would be more shit ...... if your team were karma and popa, they would also lose ... besides, figree is better than popa in pvp, I think your team is going for worse .. .. just wanted to give an example of experienced team in pvp, do not take it badly, the comet does not work !, that's why the allies are at a disadvantage, and the firefly is much better !, to the comet you just kill it with a simple , and insignificant AT of 50 mm ......... does not work !!!



It's true, Shaka might be the best pound for pound BK mod player at the moment. His record is currently undisputed, he tops the charts of many accomplished and talented BK players at the moment. As is, I think we need to nerf Shaka.
Watman and Autraymond have left the game.

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Shanks
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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Shanks » 17 Dec 2017, 06:30

Tiger1996 wrote:Dude, the Comet still works ;) It might be worth it even more than before, actually!

Just it was changed from "Pershing with flank speed for almost the price of the Pershing" to be more like a "Russian T-34/85 with good mobility, decent gun and cheap price" and this is much more realistic this way.

So, how exactly Comet does not work? You can still destroy Axis heavy tanks with it and it is much cheaper. Killing vet.0 Tiger tank for example is very possible, maybe not easy with 1 Comet anymore.. but 2 can be enough. And 2 Comets are still much cheaper than Tiger1 so where is the problem??
It might be a bit diificult to kill vet.2 Tiger with 2 Comets though, but that's fine because vet.2 Tiger tank is more like "a grown up Tiger tank" but vet.0 Tiger is still a "baby Tiger tank" if you get what I mean. So against vet.2 Tiger1 you might need 3 Comet then. Which are still "slightly" more expensive than a single Tiger.

You might say "but why do i get 3 Comet to kill Tiger? I can just get 1 Firefly!" That is maybe true.. but can u kill a King Tiger with 1 Firefly??? No, not even with 3 Firefly.. because it will be very hard to flank the KT with a slow tank like the Firefly. While a tank such as the Comet on the other hand can easily flank and KILL the KT. And it is very cheap as I said...

So, you can't say Firefly is better than Comet.. and you also can't say that Comet is better than Firefly, because they just have very different roles. Each has advantages and disadvantages...

But where are the disadvantages of the Achilles now?
It can shoot at long range (like Firefly) thanks to hit and run tactics ability, and it is very cheap.. also has flank speed (like Comet) and in addition to this, it has HE rounds too. Not to mention that it is available too early and for all doctrines and unlimited as well... This is why Achilles need nerf.

Also, you say that u gave me "example of experienced team" but I also gave you an example. If you think Poppa is worse, fine then... I could just have any other player who is experienced too.
And no, if me, Karma and PoppaSwank are in 1 team as Allied and I go RE doctrine against Wurf, Lehr and Frost, we could still win.. but we could also lose... However, either ways the game will be very difficult for both teams, and so both teams can maybe win or even lose. The chances would be more or less equal.. and by the way, we already played as such teams before ;)


I understand, the baby tiger or adult, they are always alone, so that you come with 2 comets and destroy it, it is easy ..... no more discussion, thanks for the explanation ;)

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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Tiger1996 » 17 Dec 2017, 23:30

Henny wrote:It's true, Shaka might be the best pound for pound BK mod player at the moment. His record is currently undisputed, he tops the charts of many accomplished and talented BK players at the moment. As is, I think we need to nerf Shaka.

:lol:

@Shanks
Alright :) Glad you get the point ;)

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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Frost » 18 Dec 2017, 12:31

I don't like the new comet TBH now Royal Eng have no durable heavy tank apart from Churchill which is inf killed not a tank killer comet more or less like m10 now
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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Warhawks97 » 18 Dec 2017, 13:16

I am not really getting this about comets.

I fought against many and one of the buddies used them extensively throughout end game. The comet did pretty well for several reasons.

1. The tank wasnt hit in many tank to tank engagments.
2. There were more comets than ever before
3. The ammount of comets was quite successfull in the long run by overcoming enemie defenses consisting of Jagdpanthers, Elephants, King tiger and nashorns. Sure, they didnt do it alone. My Long tom contributed a lot to kill tanks. But the fact we that we actually never ran out of Comets denied any enemie offensive move. Esspecially in arty dominated games, its quite valuable to have your tanks always on the move and fast but when it comes to combat, healthy enough. M10 cant do it.
As the very final act, 3 Comets killed the last KT for a loss of two comets.

Expensive Comets wouldnt have achieved it as their better armor would have still been usless against Panther and King tiger guns.

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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Shanks » 19 Dec 2017, 11:45

the stug 3 or 4 and the hetzer can easily kill the comet now, the comet has practically the same cromwell shield ... and if you pay attention to what said, before start a game "do not use the heavy tanks alone", the comet, will not work, and if the comet was better than before, all the axis players would be complaining again! .... logical, I think :?

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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Tiger1996 » 19 Dec 2017, 12:00

Warhawks97 wrote:I am not really getting this about comets.

I fought against many and one of the buddies used them extensively throughout end game. The comet did pretty well for several reasons.

1. The tank wasnt hit in many tank to tank engagments.
2. There were more comets than ever before
3. The ammount of comets was quite successfull in the long run by overcoming enemie defenses consisting of Jagdpanthers, Elephants, King tiger and nashorns. Sure, they didnt do it alone. My Long tom contributed a lot to kill tanks. But the fact we that we actually never ran out of Comets denied any enemie offensive move. Esspecially in arty dominated games, its quite valuable to have your tanks always on the move and fast but when it comes to combat, healthy enough. M10 cant do it.
As the very final act, 3 Comets killed the last KT for a loss of two comets.

Expensive Comets wouldnt have achieved it as their better armor would have still been usless against Panther and King tiger guns.

Totally agreed with Hawks here! +1

@Shanks
Again? :D

Well, the Comet is only "slightly" more expensive than Stugs... That's because Comet has flank speed (Stugs don't) and generally Comet has better gun for sure.. in return Stugs are "a bit" cheaper and require no CP, the Hetzer on the other hand has flank speed, but requires CP and has no HE rounds, in return Comet has HE rounds and the price is almost the same for both tanks! So, the Comet dies faster.. but is also cheaper.

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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Shanks » 19 Dec 2017, 12:15

You know, I'm similar to the fenix bird :lol: , I come back again and I see that you do not have a good argument here, because the comet comes with 6 CP, very different from the hetzer that is before, is more effective, cheaper and has mg42, like the Stug, are small details that you omit ;)

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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Tiger1996 » 19 Dec 2017, 12:35

Hmm, alright :D

I wouldn't compare Comet with Hetzer or Stug in the first place though. I mean, the Hetzer is compared to Achilles, both are Tank Destroyers too.
Stug on the other hand is more or less compared with M10 Wolverine or Cromwell, because all of them are available without requiring any CP unlock.

Comet is unique on the other hand, there is nothing like this unit for Axis. It can not be compared with anything really, because it combines speed with good gun, and still not very weak armor in addition to good price. It's maybe compared with Panther.D or jackson B1 but Comet is cheaper than both of them and is much faster too... However, worse armor in return.

I mean, the Achilles can kill Panther.G sometimes even with 1 shot... Does this mean the Achilles are better or Panther is useless? No.
The same way, Hetzer can kill Comet.. does this mean the Hetzer is better or Comet is useless? No again.

They are just "different" but none of them is necessarily better than the other one... ;) I hope my argument is finally more persuading to you now ^^

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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Shanks » 19 Dec 2017, 13:31

I see you're learning :D , right, the comet is not a tank-hunter, so why is his armor so weak?, You're not going to tell me, that the Panther "G" is weak in armor, "it's more", has more chance vs Achilles, and what about the Narhson vs. Pershing, who kills him with a shot without AP ????, Achilles has to use AP, and ambush to kill Panther "G" (one shoot), the Narshon only needs ambush, for kill the Pershing(one shoot)!, with respect to the M10 ,,,,, compared with the Stug, it is nothing, the Stug apart from being a very good tank-hunter, it is also very good vs infantry, and has greater armor than the comet, it even looks like a tank! .... then because I talk so much about hetzer, Stug and comet, the answer is very simple, with this change, they want the comet, from being a tank to tank-fighter, even so you would not have Vs Panther "G" opportunity, nor with two Comet, probably, in some cases ....... the strangest thing, is that when the comet, "was fine", you complained always, but now, as what do you say, "it's much better ", why will you defend it so much now? :?

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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Tiger1996 » 19 Dec 2017, 14:00

Shanks wrote:right, the comet is not a tank-hunter, so why is his armor so weak?

Good question, but the answer is obvious; because it's very fast! And the armor of the Comet can still bounce off 50mm and short barrel 75mm guns and sometimes even long barrel 75mm guns. So, the armor is "weak" now but not "so weak" at all...
You're not going to tell me, that the Panther "G" is weak in armor, "it's more", has more chance vs Achilles

Panther.G has more chances vs Achilles.. true, but Panther.G is also 3 times more expensive than both Achilles and Comet and Panther.G requires 7 CP.
Which means that it's also later available...
with respect to the M10 ,,,,, compared with the Stug, it is nothing, the Stug apart from being a very good tank-hunter, it is also very good vs infantry, and has greater armor than the comet

M10 can kill Stug, and Stug can kill M10 too. Stug does not have better armor than Comet, their armor is the same.. or Comet is perhaps even slightly better armored. And the Comet is good vs infantry with HE rounds too! in fact, the Comet is MUCH better vs infantry.. let me explain why:

imagine this... 2 AT team vs Stug, what are u going to do? You will shoot HE at 1 AT team, then you will drive backward.. right? But the Stug is not fast enough and the 2nd AT team will catch and kill your Stug or at least heavily damage it.
Now.. imagine the same situation vs Comet, 2 AT teams vs Comet, what are u going to do? You will fire HE on 1 AT team, then u will drive backward.. right? The 2nd AT team will NEVER catch your Comet because you are very fast with flank speed... You see? Comet is surely better vs infantry ;)

even so you would not have Vs Panther "G" opportunity, nor with two Comet

2 Comet cost 120 fuel, 1 Panther.G cost 155 fuel.. in this video, you can see 2 Comets attacking 1 Panther. And the Panther lost main gun... So you can kill 1 Panther with 2 Comets for sure. Maybe u will lose 1 Comet, but the 2nd Comet will be able to flank or heavily damage Panther from the front.

the strangest thing, is that when the comet, "was fine", you complained always, but now, as what do you say, "it's much better ", why will you defend it so much now? :?

Comet was not fine, it was not a Comet...
It was "Pershing or Panther.D with flank speed" but now it is a "Comet" which is faster, cheaper, and has good gun.
This way also Comet is more valuable against big tanks like King Tiger or JagdTiger, because in the past... Comet cost 100 fuel but still too weak armor against King Tiger's gun anyway.. now however, it is cheaper so u can have more Comets against the King Tiger.
So this is an improvement! That's why I defend it to stay like that :)

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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Shanks » 19 Dec 2017, 15:22

1- The panzer D kills with one shot (75 mm short) the comet 2-The Panther "G" no costs three times more than the comet, adds the MP! 3-The Stug 3 maintains HE and is very good with the mg42 , honestly most of the shots of the AT squad go to the ground (I do not know why), so I do not know what you're talking about 4- The comet does not work and using 6 CP for this unit is not such a good idea 5- This repetition only shows that your enemies are rusted, it is not a good example 6-I want to see the comet escape from the Hetzer 7- You compare the British units a lot with those of WM, apparently you forget PE, which It has 67283727171 ways to kill this weak comet 8- When you speak of Spam de comet, it seems as if the British had infinite MP, keep the British troop has its cost 9- You need a reliable tank to break the enemy front, like the KT or Panther, not a slow churchil or a weak Comet 10-There are many factors in pvp, which depends on the victory of a team, so, do not give me examples of fights, where the Axis is always at a disadvantage, you are practically telling me to kill comets, with KT or Panthers, while the most logical would be to use hetzers, Stug or more mobile units, not to mention that these units could already have veteran, when the comet arrives, where finally you realize that the comet, It's not a big deal

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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Tiger1996 » 19 Dec 2017, 16:50

1- The panzer D kills with one shot (75 mm short)

Can you click this link plz?
https://youtu.be/4B9PJEOIChA?t=1653
The link will deliver you exactly at minute 27:33 on this video.

Now, watch carefully what happened after I simply flanked the JagdPanzer and killed it (Hetzer can also die the same way) and then look how my Comet bounced off Panzer.D which has short 75mm gun!
After that my Comet was penetrated by 76 for sure, which is not a problem though...

So, are you sure the Panzer.D can penetrate and kill Comet?

I also made a test few days ago... Short barrel 75mm (Puma 75, Panzer.D, Panzer.E) CAN'T penetrate Comet reliably from the front. 50mm bounces often enough, and long barrel 75mm bounce only sometimes.

2-The Panther "G" no costs three times more than the comet, adds the MP!

I was more speaking about the fuel price, but if you add the MP price too.. then 2 Comet = 120 fuel and 940 MP and 6 CP.
Panther.G costs 7 CP, 155 fuel and 890 MP. 2 Comet can kill the Panther, but can also kill a King Tiger (200 fuel) or Tiger1 (170 fuel) so it's still fair.
And u will need 2 Comet vs King Tiger, and not 2 Firefly because Firefly can't really penetrate King Tiger from the front and doesn't have flank speed, but Comet has flank speed.

3-The Stug 3 maintains HE and is very good with the mg42

But no speed, less chance to escape... Speed is a vital advantage, don't underestimate the superiority of high speed.
Comet can shoot HE and escape.. and actually not just HE, you can also shoot tanks with AP and escape quickly! Your weak armor will not be a problem if your enemy won't catch or hit you in the first place, and btw... Comet is harder to hit, which means most enemy guns will miss more often vs Comet than vs Stug, Panther, or anything else.

honestly most of the shots of the AT squad go to the ground (I do not know why), so I do not know what you're talking about

Stug dies with 2 Bazookas. It's me who is not sure what you are talking about here! o.O
Well, unless you are unlucky for sure and your rockets hit the ground.. but this can happen with Shrecks too! But even if you hit the ground.. at least you had the time to shoot the Stug, but with PanzerShrecks you will not even have time to shoot the Comet, because it will escape in few seconds thanks to the very high speed.

4- The comet does not work and using 6 CP for this unit is not such a good idea

Come on my friend :D 76 Jumbo cost 7 command points, has much more armor.. but limit to 1 only.
For 6 CP, you can have Comet which has better gun, better HE and better speed + 3 limit (it might be unlimited in the future though) and it WORKS!

5- This repetition only shows that your enemies are rusted, it is not a good example

Teams were balanced, don't disregard the Axis players who played against us.. in fact, everyone of them is probably better than you!
I say probably ^^

6-I want to see the comet escape from the Hetzer

If I use your logic here, then I could also say:
I want to see Pz4.H escape from Achilles... :D Achilles can snipe Pz.4.H from a long range with hit and run tactics ability. And the Panzer4.H in TH doctrine is more expensive than Comet, it costs 80 fuel. If you don't have enough ammo to use the hit and run ability, you can use ur speed.. which means you can also flank the Panzer4.H or shoot it from the front and quickly run away.

7- You compare the British units a lot with those of WM, apparently you forget PE, which It has 67283727171 ways to kill this weak comet

Every unit PE has which can kill Comet, the Comet can kill it too...
Hetzer can easily kill you? Well, you can easily kill it too.
JagdPanther (180 fuel or 160 after unlock) can kill you? You can flank with 2 Comet and kill him too. Panther.D also same...
JagdTiger? Well, flank him with 3 Comet and kick his ass! You can't flank him with 3 Firefly...

8- When you speak of Spam de comet, it seems as if the British had infinite MP, keep the British troop has its cost

Look, a tank such as the KT can always penetrate and kill Comet maybe even in 1 shot, even when Comet had better armor before the changes!
Now, answer this question.. if you need 3 Comets to kill a King Tiger because you can't really do the same with 3 Firefly, what would u prefer to pay?

(NOW) 3 Comets (180 fuel - 1410 MP) vs 1 KT (200 fuel - 1200 MP)
OR
(PAST) 3 Comets (300 fuel - 1950 MP) vs 1 KT (200 fuel - 1200 MP)

Keeping in mind you die with 1 shot in both cases. What is better then? First option OF COURSE.

you are practically telling me to kill comets, with KT or Panthers, while the most logical would be to use hetzers, Stug or more mobile units, not to mention that these units could already have veteran, when the comet arrives, where finally you realize that the comet, It's not a big deal

Same way for Axis... You don't have to kill Tigers with Pershing! It could be more logical to do it with Hellcat or M10 Wolverine, and oh by the way... M10 Wolverine can kill Tiger1, Stug can't kill Pershing. Not to mention that when 1 Tiger for nearly 170 fuel finally arrive after 5 Command Points, your tank destroyers can be already veteran too.. so the Tiger tank won't be a big deal either.


HOPE you get the point now... ;)

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Shanks
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Re: [5.1.3] Comet tank Gameplay

Postby Shanks » 19 Dec 2017, 17:51

1- My test with the panzer "D" was to short distance 2-I did not say that the players of this replay, are bad, I said that they were "rusty" 3- I sincerely prefer the old comet, if you can do so many, now, you can do the same amount of hetzer, if you want 4-Axis has better tank-hunter capacity 5-I always understood your point, it's just that I do not agree........and friend, BK is not always 2 + 2 = 4, there are a lot of movements and strategies, where this little armor of the comet, it's a disadvantage, you're great, so that's the last thing I'll write for today


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