Large Tank Battle

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Tiger1996
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Large Tank Battle

Postby Tiger1996 » 30 Aug 2017, 16:40

Very long 3vs3 game of which I had recently... You could see high veterancy levels JagdPanther and JagdTigers, nonetheless.. it's worth to mention that almost each time the sticky grenades were probably the main reason why I lost my tanks by the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTmf76u5bBc
Pic.jpg
Video Thumbnail.


Enjoy.

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Warhawks97
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Re: Large Tank Battle

Postby Warhawks97 » 30 Aug 2017, 18:56

Why dont you use the mass prod upgrade? You play vs RA and AB and going straight for JT? oO Isnt it the worst you can do against such doc combos. First hetzer spam to get rid of all their vehicles, HT´s and armor. Then going for some upgrades to spare ammo (gunsights etc) and finally Jagdpanther for the offense.

Also Zimmerit reduces taken damage for all your tanks by 25%. Take as example tank IV takes 500 damage from US 76 gun. It would then deal just 375. Even a 600 damage shot (max for 76 unless its in ambush) would then deal just 450.
And guess what? hetzer has 600 HP. That means that the 76 gun wont be able to oneshot it under normal conditions (the pen chance vs hetzer using basic rounds is 54% max range).

Also against arty Zimmerit helps a LOT. A Tank IV for example would take instead of the 376,875 damage (axis arty resistance) just 282,65625 damage from direct arty hits.

Jagdpanther with a naturally even higher arty resistance just 150,75. That means that when using Zimmerit the priest would have to score a direct hit with ALL 6 shots of a barrage to kill the tank.

But again, people have no idea what can be usefull in certain situations. They go straight their tec lines and yeah....if it doesnt work...

Edit:
And why fighting alone again against something a mate could do much better? Meanwhile on the other side of the map your doc could have made a real difference. one Jagdpanzer IV/70 in ambush with TC and Zimmerit, done.... Arty would have to find it and then kill (see above, zimmerit) and you can easily take out any tank+ marking tought targets like the AB´s and stuff..... Why not doing it? Your WH mate could have dealed much better with other stuff.

Edit II:
Wow... the first Tank Hunter while playing TH doc is a Jagdtiger. This is really a whole new story of "Playing TH doc". I see a huge similarity to "playing armor doc" and reducing a doc to a single tank. The thing is: SP is good and kills units, everything else crap, esspecially shermans. For Th doc everything is good, Hetzers are fast with good resistance to US guns and cheap and spamable with capable gun (the very opposite of the sherman trash). Meanwhile the JT is crap except when using it as breakthrough tank and to soak up damage and to bounce anything the allied throws at you.

Edit III: With JAGDtiger you dont go "jagen" (hunting) anything. You need inf and vehicles to counter their inf and TD´s like Jagdpanther to actually kill the enemie. I know, the word is missleading here.

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Tiger1996
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Re: Large Tank Battle

Postby Tiger1996 » 30 Aug 2017, 21:20

in my humble opinion, the JagdTiger was the only possible way to take out AT emplacements, hotchkiss could have been an option since i had a lot of ammo.. but my fuel income was too low to keep spamming any of them. And I definitely deployed the JagdPanther soon after... As I even succeeded to score veterancy level 3 with it, same with the 2nd Jagd Tiger from my side. I also didn't ignore using some infantry, the SS squad achieved veterancy level 4 btw. So I guess I did everything I could possibly do as TH doc on this game, thus this also explains why I had the best kill/death ratio right there. However, the overwhelming Airborne units and airstrikes together with the massive amount of enemy tanks by the Armor doc player in the very late stage of the game are nearly impossible to beat. If Axis can't handle it after 50 minutes, then I guess usually their chances would be greatly lower to have any kind of victory. Anyway, you see? Sticky grenades aren't as useless as some people might assume :) Spamming Pz.4 however would be completely useless against such a high number of Jacksons and Pershing tanks.

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Warhawks97
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Re: Large Tank Battle

Postby Warhawks97 » 30 Aug 2017, 21:57

Tiger1996 wrote:in my humble opinion, the JagdTiger was the only possible way to take out AT emplacements, hotchkiss could have been an option since i had a lot of ammo.


stopped reading here bc

Edit:
And why fighting alone again against something a mate could do much better? Meanwhile on the other side of the map your doc could have made a real difference. one Jagdpanzer IV/70 in ambush with TC and Zimmerit, done.... Arty would have to find it and then kill (see above, zimmerit) and you can easily take out any tank+ marking tought targets like the AB´s and stuff..... Why not doing it? Your WH mate could have dealed much better with other stuff.


You faced 2 or 3 emplacments for a very long time. Your mate had stuka and 210 nebler and wespe and possibly later hummel. srsly. And hotchkiss can kill emplacments quite easily except those of RE. Just dont fire from max range. You also had lots of inf for a long time including ss squad and stormpios. Mortar smoke, two side attack and a IV/70 somewhere behind or hetzer for quickly scaring the vehicles away.

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Tiger1996
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Re: Large Tank Battle

Postby Tiger1996 » 30 Aug 2017, 23:10

I should have maybe deployed some Hetzers, ya. But then; once again I would probably have to say that my fuel income was hardly enough to have a single Pz.4 or anything... So I relied more on MP rather than fuel. That was also one of the reasons why I went for the JagdTiger first. Later however, I still managed to get the Jagd Panther when I finally gathered enough fuel.. i also sent it to my mate's side so it could help them clearing enemy tanks. Apparently though, both Stuka and Hummel were not enough to quickly get rid of the emplacements! But whatever, I don't really want to fumble on this game here.

kwok
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Re: Large Tank Battle

Postby kwok » 31 Aug 2017, 10:41

I think what Warhawks is saying that you used rock to fight paper and scissors to fight rock... stickies didn't ruin you, strategy did.

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Warhawks97
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Re: Large Tank Battle

Postby Warhawks97 » 31 Aug 2017, 12:59

kwok wrote:I think what Warhawks is saying that you used rock to fight paper and scissors to fight rock... stickies didn't ruin you, strategy did.

Yes. Glad people understand.


Tiger1996 wrote:I should have maybe deployed some Hetzers, ya. But then; once again I would probably have to say that my fuel income was hardly enough to have a single Pz.4 or anything... So I relied more on MP rather than fuel. That was also one of the reasons why I went for the JagdTiger first. Later however, I still managed to get the Jagd Panther when I finally gathered enough fuel.. i also sent it to my mate's side so it could help them clearing enemy tanks. Apparently though, both Stuka and Hummel were not enough to quickly get rid of the emplacements! But whatever, I don't really want to fumble on this game here.


You were low on fuel but you still refused to go for the Tank Hunter command for a long time. And instead going for the Tank IV and tank support command. When i play on low fuel with TH doc and defensive i do go for cheap TD. You didnt get the TH support command nor the cheap production upgrade which gives you two hetzer for the cost of one tank IV H.

Fuel upkeep is nonsense. Axis mediums have an upkpeep of 2.1 fuel. A fucking standard sherman cost (more) than twice of that (4.x...) and remain more costly in upkeep after the upkeep reduction upkeep. Even the powerfull tank IV/70 isnt higher than 2 upkeep.

If you guys would have played a clear role (you kill tanks, Terror gets grens and Panther G and SE 210 and hummel).

The reason why your arty "sucked" was bc you didnt know where to shoot, random brainless firing, shooting into fog of war, and you used it defensively. Take a look for example on the left side... A silly sherman jacks (no match if there would have been a single fucking IV/70 in support for the stug) made your mates shooting Wespe on 210 nebler. Res that got spend unnecessary.

And JT "as only option". I played TH doc quite often and ive never got a JT. JT is veeeery situational and everything but "absolutely necessary". Th doc can fight with a minimum of res. It exceels in this. To get the most of the little res you dont go for JT.
Instead:
1. TH command as first and maybe as the only building
2. Hetzer (and IV/70 unlock) for effective defense against whatever there comes.
3. Cheap production (before or after IV/70 unlock, depending) to save even more res
4. Gunsights helps to spare ammo there (25 for each hetzer, 75 for all others)
5. Zimmerit (keeps your tanks alive, that really saves res)
- or ammo upgrade (saves ammo), depends what is required first in the situation.
6. With all this ammo saved it can then be traded into fuel.
7. Tank veterancy (makes your tanks better... upgarde it when TC is inside so that he gets instant vet 2 level as well. Makes your tank much more effective and thus makes it living longer= saves res)
9. Panzerschreck upgrade. Enables the squad to kill simply everything. One ambush and the two schrecks and boosted faust and HHL makes this unit incredible valuable.


Basically: The entire doc is meant to save res. Its a doc that can get a hell of a punch out of very few res. Its a survival expert when it comes to battle armor. Huge gains for little cost.

But if you take all this not into acc...The JT comes when you have your "homeland" and neighbours secured so that they can prepare the next steps without forced to do the job you could do for low cost just for high cost. The JT is at best a late game "gun bouncer" that, if supported on the flanks, is unkillable with exception of a very few abilties that afterall need to be well placed.


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