Two most entertaining games

[JimQwilleran]

Hello! Recently I have played 2 very interesting games with SOME OF top class players (SHAME THAT IDLIKETOPLAYBETTER WASN'T THERE) on both sides. 1 win and 1 lose. 1 game as axis, 1 game as allies.

First 4vs4 Goodwood

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Second 3vs3 Lafiere

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The pace of both games was incredible. Have fun!

PS. Yes, that's not my name, but that's me. Magic

[idliketoplaybetter]

The moment, when u cant find ur name among "top class players" : (

p.s. am i the only who is not f******* smurfing this days.

[JimQwilleran]

The moment, when u cant find ur name among "top class players" : (

p.s. am i the only who is not f******* smurfing this days.

Firstly, how do u know I haven't changed my name for that period ?

Secondly people in both games were aware that it was me, at least the guys who know me well.

I just log randomly on one of my accs

[idliketoplaybetter]

"guys who know u well", sounds ironic

[Medic Truck]

Lol. That player name 'garam masala' means hot spices in Hindi(India).

[JimQwilleran]

Lol. That player name 'garam masala' means hot spices in Hindi(India).

I know, that's my food recently.

[Warhawks97]

Top class players. Hmm. I know few of them quite well.

Waffle is iirc not even a allied player (or at least he doesnt like it) as he told me later. Also had a game with him sadly my teammates came fresh from vcoh. Anyway... zombie def doc is awesome when you can run towards sherman, 3 AB squads and HMG just like that with this defensive boost. No matter if friendly or enemien territory. (talking about my game)

That aside. I watched them via stream from poppa.
In the second you got almost rushed. Axis had good start but failed to use their res at the right time. Besides that panzerjäger seem to be quite new. He put 37 mm and HMG on a very bad spot and got overruned then by simple recce. Earlier on he didnt engage with his units in the middle to support poppas push.

You made it to late game because of the late game RAF commandos and priest. At some parts i didnt notice that there is a US player untill some of these random 105 sherman shells rained down. I have no idea what he actually did. But CW fought this battle (again) for themselves.



Your axis game was rather unbalanced. Waffle said that he doesnt like CW. Coz later on he left so that the remaining guys could play a 3 vs 3. Tavares is i would say not bad. At least its someone i would play allis with.

Tiger 1996 is in my opinion a lot more an axis player than allied. Dr. teleport... i try to remember. Is it the Jumbo dude with scotts?

I think the reason why the game took 46 mins was because you had only PE and the weakest on your side playing as WH. You should have used two WH and two PE. Scout car Volks spam is afterall super deadly vs US unless those try to spam AT guns.

However, there should have been one BK doc pared with Luft against the US player positions. Aggressive Puma/Tank IV/mortar/Gebirgs gameplay.

btw... just tested in a game. One Tank IV H running into three ambushed AT guns, two of them at least 6 pdr.... 8 bounces and one 6 pdr dead without.
any HE round use. After that lucky one hit kill of second 6 pdr from very close range. Why am i saying this? bc this is the reason why Luft BK combo vs US only.


So yeah, the US/PE game looks more balanced towards axis. The CW game more towards allis.


And let me guess. Tiger got armor doc and more or less pershings only? (or sp).


Edit: Haha.... since the legends of Boys AT are being spread arround the world every PE player goes for infantry only. Didnt you notice that there is only one Brits? Technically yes, US can outspam and overrn PE.... Jeeps, rifles, 60 mm, HMG and stuff. Wow.... didnt know that this "Alli OP meta" (while its CW or rather boys AT so far) has such a fearfull charactar that even the "most pros" of BK cant see the obvious weakness of an only US team or its strenght.


Edit II: Grama has saved lots of res. He didnt know for what to spend them. I think choosing TH doc and using Tank IV´s combined with hotchkiss would have payed of really great. Terror doc wasnt the best choice. BK and Tank IV spam after like 16 mins would have had a much greater impact.

And the Luft guy. Idk why he got nebler. Facing all these vehicles hetzer or marder would have been a much better choice i would say and saving res rather for important things.

Waffle havent got a recce as i could see. I wonder why not.

Edit III: Vampire was a good choice.... but two luft now -.- vs AB, armor and arty. They knew they fight AB with sniper spam, shermans and arty. Interesting how it goes on now.


Edit IV: Standard WH mistake... rush for Panther. But doesnt matter if the 50 mm AT in center has any protection. Where is Puma for such jobs? As i said, BK, luft, TH doc. That would have probably my pick with this faction constellation against almost only US. bc its obvious that there will be AB, inf and armor.


Edit V: Lol... even Luft players rush for Panthers? Thats new... probably bc of the new HE rounds. But yes. OP allis (all axis rush for panthers, forget about mid game units and yeah.... if either scout cars or Panthers cant win.... Nothing can win i think.

I mean srsly. of what i can remember being called "Upper class pro gamer games" 20 mm vehicles where everywhere, esspecially vs US (greyhound, inf spam etc, airborne that drops). Terror went for grens and stuka and panther, Luft for infantry (not panther and nebler lol. Maybe he mistaken Luft with terror doc?) and so on.


Edit VI: Tavares didnt do bad. Min 22:50 i am unsure what his goal was when shooting both nebler random at no obvious targets.

Edit VI: Panzerjäger went for Terror Tiger.

Edit VII: Poppa does a huge job there vs i think three players. he is making the best of his situation. Armor doc as i am used to. Passive... hidding M10. Waiting for a moment he can actually attack (but hetzers make it difficult atm)

[JimQwilleran]

I think I don't get your point at all. What are you referring to? I don't understand your post.

You should have used two WH and two PE. Scout car Volks spam is afterall super deadly vs US unless those try to spam AT guns.

However, there should have been one BK doc pared with Luft against the US player positions. Aggressive Puma/Tank IV/mortar/Gebirgs gameplay.

Edit: Haha.... since the legends of Boys AT are being spread arround the world every PE player goes for infantry only. Didnt you notice that there is only one Brits? Technically yes, US can outspam and overrn PE.... Jeeps, rifles, 60 mm, HMG and stuff. Wow.... didnt know that this "Alli OP meta" (while its CW or rather boys AT so far) has such a fearfull charactar that even the "most pros" of BK cant see the obvious weakness of an only US team or its strenght.

Man why do u criticize a good game even before watching it, just because it doesn't fit your vision? I just dont understand this attitude. Why do you "always" criticize everything? You dont appreciate different ways of playing, you just always repeat - "you should have played like ****" Why are you so full of yourself seriously?

Edit II: Grama has saved lots of res. He didnt know for what to spend them. I think choosing TH doc and using Tank IV´s combined with hotchkiss would have payed of really great. Terror doc wasnt the best choice. BK and Tank IV spam after like 16 mins would have had a much greated impact.

And the Luft guy. Idk why he got nebler. Facing all these vehicles hetzer or marder would have been a much better choice i would say and saving res rather for important things.

Waffle havent got a recce as i could see. I wonder why not.

Edit III: Vampire was a good choice.... but two luft now -.- vs AB, armor and arty. They new they fight AB with sniper spam, shermans and arty. Interesting how it goes on now.

Sorry but I am kinda done with you. You are the type of person who will always only see the tip of his own nose. Of course you know everything better, you would do everything better. But I will tell you: your ideas are wrong. TH would be a terrible choice for this game. Same with bk. I have made best decisions in my opinion. But instead of commenting like normal person - you come here to play a guru who knows everything the best. I am seriously fed up with this toxic attitude of yours.

Edit V: Lol... even Luft players rush for Panthers? Thats new... probably bc of the new HE rounds. But yes. OP allis (all axis rush for panthers, forget about mid game units and yeah.... if either scout cars or Panthers cant win.... Nothing can win i think.

I mean srsly. of what i can remember being called "Upper class pro gamer games" 20 mm vehicles where everywhere, esspecially vs US (greyhound, inf spam etc, airborne that drops). Terror went for grens and stuka and panther, Luft for infantry (not panther and nebler lol. Maybe he mistaken Luft with terror doc?) and so on.

Yea fuck me cause I don't play the mid game just like you want. Fuck me that I don't play whole doc like you want. Such arrogance. Yes you can remember to play like that. But guess what: game changed. And still you can only see what you want to see.

[Warhawks97]

Man why do u criticize a good game even before watching it, just because it doesn't fit your vision? I just dont understand this attitude. Why do you "always" criticize everything? You dont appreciate different ways of playing, you just always repeat - "you should have played like ****" Why are you so full of yourself seriously?

Coz i am criticize myself when watching me playing. Its just how me and my mates did it. And bc i know the players which really never change certain styles. Like at the time Tiger choosed AB doc i knew what he will go for. calli jeep and air raids. Why i know that? coz he does the same with RAF.

If anyone gives me such critics i would be glad to listen and learn.

Sorry but I am kinda done with you. You are the type of person who will always only see the tip of his own nose. Of course you know everything better, you would do everything better. But I will tell you: your ideas are wrong. TH would be a terrible choice for this game. Same with bk. I have made best decisions in my opinion. But instead of commenting like normal person - you come here to play a guru who knows everything the best. I am seriously fed up with this toxic attitude of yours.

I dont do that. I also learned from others. Def doc from kwok, Terror a bit from sukin and so on. He played the doc literally perfect.

Yea fuck me cause I don't play the mid game just like you want. Fuck me that I don't play whole doc like you want. Such arrogance. Yes you can remember to play like that. But guess what: game changed. And still you can only see what you want to see.

I give just advices. Things that would have helped. I mean how is it smart to "skip the mid game"? Its the cruical part. Not even KT or Panther will save your ass when skipping mid games. Only Poppa kept doing his job at any stage and standing inf and armor almost alone up to now.

So its not "like i want". But playing Luft doc for Panthers and vampire?


Also Waffle is (as he said himself to me) not a CW guy. I missed the recce, he missed getting 17 pdrs in mid game (he couldnt know that no Tan IV comes) and got Arty doc withouht having arty and instead just inf so far.

Its not about what i like or not. But there are some "jobs" to do in so called elite fights. Shermans, 101st, calli jeep, 75 mm HT, recce and so on. Same for axis. You cant just run all for Panthers only expecting that it will somehow work at the end.

And you keep saying things have changed. But tell me what exactly (besides the changed CW early) has changed so dramatically that combos like Gebirgs/Tank IV or whatever will not work. Tell me just what cruicial things have changed that Puma and 20 mm vehicles are "old stuff"?

And why would TH doc been so bad? Coz of Arty doc? Going this way then every doc can be doomed obsolet coz priest can kill everything.

[JimQwilleran]

Let me see some of of your streams or replays. Maybe i can understand you better.

You don't want understanding. You want to criticize. You say it's tips - for me your tips are like pouring water on burning oil. They are just wrong. I keep saying that you don't understand - and you really dont. Sorry, but it's me that should be giving tips to you not the other way around, when are u gonna understand that? Are you familiar with word "modesty"? Like you come here after absence thinking you are still good. You are not. Currently for me you are like the anti-vaccine movement - spreading nonsense and harm with religious-like conviction.

I shared this replay so you could see how reality differs from what you say. So you could "understand better". But you do something opposite - giving me your "tips". Suddenly it's such a shock for you: People do things not just exactly the same way like you want and remember they used to. Oh my god!

Its not about what i like or not. But there are some "jobs" to do in so called elite fights. Shermans, 101st, calli jeep, 75 mm HT, recce and so on.

You are wrong. People can play without all those things u keep repeating for ages. You want this game to be boring - everything the same always. That's why I find your ideas harmful.

[Warhawks97]

You don't want understanding. You want to criticize. You say it's tips - for me your tips are like pouring water on burning oil. They are just wrong. I keep saying that you don't understand - and you really dont. Sorry, but it's me that should be giving tips to you not the other way around, when are u gonna understand that? Are you familiar with word "modesty"? Like you come here after absence thinking you are still good. You are not. Currently for me you are like the anti-vaccine movement - spreading nonsense and harm with religious-like conviction.

If you think so. But most of the time players appreciated and introduced a lot of things i told them. You would be surprised how many were not aware of certain things. Let alone supply yard/medic truck inf doc combo.

Or using Hetzers with docs besides TH doc. M10 Heat rounds.

And what tip can you give me from this replay? That Luftwaffe is now just another "Panther meta doc" just with "better air support"? Just tell me something smart. I am often discussing with players. Sometimes i learn from them, another time they from me.

They are just wrong. I keep saying that you don't understand - and you really dont. Sorry, but it's me that should be giving tips to you not the other way around, when are u gonna understand that?

who can see only his own nose now?

Tell me. Where would Tank IV´s would have failed when that dude got the stug? Would there have been anything capable of stopping tank IV H (or two) backed by few PE inf (maybe gebirgs?).... what is "just wrong" about that advice?

I shared this replay so you could see how reality differs from what you say. So you could "understand better". But you do something opposite - giving me your "tips". Suddenly it's such a shock for you: People do things not just exactly the same way like you want and remember they used to. Oh my god!

I doesnt. Where does it differ? I see what i always saw. Passive armor doc, Big axis tanks shredding anything and dying by stupid errors (eg that tiger cat and mouse thing arround the house).

Just tell me where it differs?

And its not a shock? I mean why should they. Players do errors. I am not an exception. I am not expecting anyone to play the way i say (coz even i cant it in the heat of the fight). But mistakes can be minimized.

You are wrong. People can play without all those things u keep repeating for ages. You want this game to be boring - everything the same always. That's why I find your ideas harmful.

Lol. How could it get more boring than US currently is? AB came, saw and got shred. Armor came, saw and couldnt do anything but hidding M10 and bouncing 90 mm shells from Jagdpanther.

I see such things since i can remember. Yes, CW got more interesting and powerfull now and PE also. That doesnt change anything that US is still predictable, slow, cumbersome, frustrating, intense work to stay alive and being in nothing good but throwing trash against the enemie untill the very late game where the combination of cheap stuff, slight buffes and superior playing with veterancy gives you some chances to stand a hard battle.

So how could i want to make it more boring? Thats strange to me. I am just happy to see that PE can offer more diversity and aggressive plays through mid to late stage since recent cost drops. So tell me where i want the game to be more boring?


and can we just end this bullshit and becoming constructive? I dont want to waste more pages.

[JimQwilleran]

You're right. I'm wrong. Forget everything. Enjoy the forum and the games.

[mofetagalactica]

Panther shouldn't be able to make for luftwaffe they already have elite infantry, they really dont need a panther its like giving pershings or jacksons to AB. but wathever.

[sgtToni95]

I don't really mind getting critics here, my WH gameplay is still too slow and full of thinking instead of acting.. I guess having someone that suggests me what the best choices are in determined situations isn't really bad. Theese might come not only from Hawks, but from every other more experienced player than me

[Krieger Blitzer]

Just to correct few things mentioned about me here...
I am not more of an Axis player than an Allied one, PE is my least played faction. WH is my most played faction.. but then comes US quickly in the 2nd place and CW in the 3rd place. Some people here might be true Allied only players on the other hand!

Also, I don't usually go for Calliope jeep as Airborne doctrine.. except that I often do it only on this map.
Armor doc is also my favorite, not AB.

[idliketoplaybetter]

ahhh, i get it

Its just too many "Top class players" per 1square meter of old good game (and everyone are smurfing, ahah, what a place ). That's what causing such discussion issues..

[Shanks]

So far, I have never seen a 4v4 balanced decently, in this 4v4,the tiger team had all of lose

[Warhawks97]

ahhh, i get it

Its just too many "Top class players" per 1square meter of old good game (and everyone are smurfing, ahah, what a place ). That's what causing such discussion issues..

Pretty much. Apparently today is everybody top class. I think the real top class ive seen in all my years (includes teamplay and accurate build orders) was sukin with his mates. RA/armor/AB as allied. Axis depending. But usually at least one terror.

I have no idea what happend to them or why they dont find together again.

The game was entertaining at the beginning. Then Poppa fighting inf and armor made it the most intense part of the game during mid stage. The way US lost at the end was rather the standard ending i am used to see in normal games with normal players. The inf dude may have done more. But idk as its difficult to see it as inf player in the heat of battles. I am dying often enough the same way lol.



Also I think Panthers can stay in Luft (in reality they really received a Panther unit). You havent got much else to support your inf against armored enemie field divisions. Hetzer is a tool of choice but its offensive capabilties are at best limited. And its the only PE panther.

What i find here is that Luft could rush for Panthers..... Against british+ RA doc. And still win at the end (let it be the mistake of CW player here). But lately it became a frequent strategy apparently that Luft player rush for the "sale panther" since HE round boost.


@Tiger:
Its something i told you already. When you play air docs you focus too much on air raids as first unlock. But often you lose your ammo income out of sight.

But many players do so. Fielding lots of arty but no ammo for continues use or effective one.
And its something you do actually always when playing air docs. But yeah, i know that you dont play air docs often, esspecially US AB doc.

To be honest i also dont know what exactly i would have made different as AB here. Maybe the one or other M10. M20 recon patrole. 60 mm mortar for smoke when attacking with 101st. Generally i cant give you many advices here except trying to get your ammo household balanced. Two calli jeeps in use and air raids. Its too much for that ammo income.

[idliketoplaybetter]

I have no idea what happend to them or why they dont find together again.

Well, some find mod very unbalanced now, and that game has changed too much or moving towards wrong direction, saying simple "Allies OP".

And that is what Nami-S was trying to tell u i believe, and in a way i understand him, however i never understood, what is exactly OP about Allies, since in my eyes (from 4.9.3patch) even considering these occasional luft/ab/arty blobs, game had only evolved, and playing all factions are now lot easier.


p.s.

Apparently today is everybody top class.

Yeay, im not worthless.., oh wait

[Warhawks97]

Well, some find mod very unbalanced now, and that game has changed too much or moving towards wrong direction, saying simple "Allies OP".

Well. I can understand that when sukin says it. They had this perfect combo of very capable (best) arty, armor, AB players. However they won with axis just the same way.

But here it comes to that collaborative gameplay again. Which you dont have unless your name is sukin or buddy. It needs an almost perfect harmony in the team.

And that is what Nami-S was trying to tell u i believe, and in a way i understand him, however i never understood, what is exactly OP about Allies,

Yes. And i watched games where he either participiated and also played against him at la chaudiere. He had two mates and three CW in total. I played with guys of which i knew name wise but without having many played games with them. With lehr i rather started recently to play with and Wurf was new to me as BK doc (saw him as luft or armor mostly). And i played first time Defensive doctrine ever in a pvp (my last in pvp was in 2012). And we did very well i would say, losing just by a mistake (we didnt fought as team while they did in one cruical moment of the game).

I couldnt find any allis OP reason here but considered the balance Axis vs CW as very good. You can watch the game, its here in forum.

I think its the new Boys-AT that have a huge impact together with new dingo/bren (bullet proof, doing damage, abilties, Recce still available). But this is early game. Survive that as axis and the game is more or less like before.

since in my eyes (from 4.9.3patch) even considering these occasional luft/ab/arty blobs, game had only evolved, and playing all factions are now lot easier.

Would say the same. Just the balance WH/PE is much better than CW/US. WH is elite supported by more specialized elite docs from PE. CW is elite specialized docs that carry US docs specialized in spamming trash most of its time. Like a hundred tool pocketknife of which non is really working.

They have tools but too many of them are not working as you might think at first.

Some examples:
Rangers. In all docs. Wow, but their damage output is not even getting close to those of volks. If anything they are a bit more sturdy than Rifles.
Armor. Sounds good. But their intended workhorse, the sherman and in particular easy eight, is nowhere as good as Tank IV from BK doc... neither in standing shots, nor in dealing damage.
Arty. Sounds good, but inf doc is nowehere able to match arty orientated docs like def, terror, se or ra.
Cheap inf. Nice, you can overrun them. Nah, you cant most of the time. Even volks (esspecially def doc zombie volks) will teach you a hard lesson.
Airborne. Damn, i heared so much great of them during normandy campaign. When you get them in BK you will get disappointed for sure. Grens will beat the shit out of them in most occassions.

It is much harder facing CW as when facing a team of US.

Yeay, im not worthless.., oh wait

You are not you just want to play better all the time

[idliketoplaybetter]

I think its the new Boys-AT that have a huge impact together with new dingo/bren (bullet proof, doing damage, abilties, Recce still available). But this is early game. Survive that as axis and the game is more or less like before.

It does. Actually, this CWearly game OPiiness, reminds me a lot of my impressions on mod balancing concept when i was only starting.

Basically, CW gameplay is now sorta mirroring what was (IS) WM : ATboys/37mmHE, Recce - Puma..etc, its not good or bad exactly, its just completely different, and takes more of..

But here it comes to that collaborative gameplay again.

..to play it, and ofcourse normal maps. My 2nd impression (mostly negative) was that, the such huge and amazing project never had its "own" mapmaker, and maps specially made for it. Huge bummer.


All those listed examples of u'r..ehh, i dunno, i both agree and dis..cant agree on that.
Most of things work well honestly, lots of things are useless (and that is what ur suggestions and game situation confronts on imo).
And i dunno. In proper hands (of top players ofcourse!!!!) on a jerked map with same strat everything can be abused, khm khm, "well played". Most of replays cant show objective picture, unless the goal is to show the most used strat among the players..however im not sure, if thats what developers should orient on totally.

Game is very timing and teamplay dependant. That's what happens, when product is overplayed by "low" amount of people. Nothing wrong to me.., but has less and less to do with balance concept issue

You are not you just want to play better all the time

No more, wanna be like everyone else here, just a "regular" Topclassplayah

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I've never said that Allies are OP or something, RAF, AB, Armor and Arty have always been very fun to play, as SVT team we were up to play allies anyday, because they have way more cunninng instruments and there docs fit each other way better ( AB + Arty + Armor as Hawks already mentioned was pure fun, mainly because of how good this docs could сomplement each other), Axis were more about rough power and that was fine, difference between gameplay approach. Now Allies got skyhigh buffed while Axis became super boring, they have nothing, best units can be killed by click to kill abilities or countered by spezialized units which cost nothing (Super effective HE m4, M10 Achiles), generally, all their stuff is far away less cost effective than allied units. Last doc which could give me at least some fun before I quit BK was SE, Luft wasnt that bad as well, TH...we all know and WH is a crap faction entirely, terror doc turned to "start to get benefits from your doc choice tree after 40 minutes", BK is only about tigers and panthers, Storms have completely lost their value after multiple direct and inderect nerfs: evasive manevures disabled, vet. lvl exp increased, Handled AT nerf, HE shells buff.

If devs will not change their approach BK will die completely, I mean, you should fix things which dont work, not other way arround, last changes regarding AB ( 1 Hellcat, seriously? after you turned recoiless rifles to useless shit?) Raf and Luft are bullshit, you d better revise TH, Def and Terror, they seem to be completely off.

[Warhawks97]

I think both sides have got nice click and kill stuff. Ive seen the firestorm being often used on concentrated enemies. Very good in combinations with armor vs inf and AT guns.

The def doc off map. Actually always insta kill of any enemie tank... pershing, comet. I start liking the def doc. Got more games with it recently.

BK has always been and still ist my fav doc. Simply bc of Tank IV´s and started using BK ability more often. Hadnt many moments to use storms in past games. Tank IV´s mostly ended it.

Sturmtiger to a certain degree is also almost click and kill. But it requires a unit which doesnt lower its deadliness. Armor/AB/RA is probably as team the best combo lmao. But AB is kinda like Terror. "benefits after 40 mins"... you need enough, vet boosted, HQ squad and whatsover to have effective AB. When calli jeep moves to inf (in concept right) it will hurt AB. It was the unit that "kept open a breach" in which hours later the 101st could float in. That will be lost and i am scared AB will get quickly locked by Ostwind/50 mm pak and volks combo. Like armor does vs Tank IV H/J, Hetzer and 88.


Terror and def need definitively a concept rework on the long term. In last games i got afraid that Def doc will do better in offensive than BK doc. 2-3 Gren squads and later zombie volks with def bonus have shocked me. They turned out to be a much better assault force than Stormtroopers from BK doc as long as there are enough craters (which is not a problem). At least unlike storms that require some tactics and timing the grens and larger getting volks blobb (literally spamming triage centers) from def doc simply allowed me to go head on pretty much everything, retreat with low loss and repeat.

With HE round changes and hendheld AT change its not just BK that suffered. Inf doc probably suffered the most from that. I am not saying the changes are wrong. Just it got very difficult to engage any kind of armor with inf doc now.

[DolphinsAreGaySharks]

''SOME OF top class players'' but not THE top player..ME

[Wurf]