Luft versus Re

[Panzer-Lehr-Division]

Hey anyone, another time i learned a bit 1v1 as british. but then some definitaly smurf came up, *yes i made mistake no aa* but anyway's enjoy also pfunder Emplacement came before mortar i don't want to mention the Player i think it was though:) enjoy.

Edit: at start i played slow, as said i wanna learn british in 1v1 i tested so many mistake at start :p didn't know it was an smurf..

[Krieger Blitzer]

Nice replay there... Perhaps another example how much ridiculous some campy tactics could be, I wonder though if some people here would come back again saying that I requested you to post it, bla bla bla.

And I would also like to quote what I said earlier regarding 1vs1 games in Bk Mod:-

1vs1 games can be still entertaining.. and are often played... They can't be completely ignored.
Though I am totally aware that balancing the game for team-fights while at the same time adjusting it for 1vs1 games might be nearly an impossible task to achieve. Nevertheless; 1vs1 games could be still a good way to measure and estimate how far 1 doctrine would be superior to another, which is something that could still help with the general balance. For example, if TH doc loses a 1vs1 game to Armor doc on the other hand.. then it means either the TH doc player seriously fked up or that there is probably something wrong with the balance...
Therefore respectively, if 1 specific doctrine has proven to be too good for 1vs1 games against ALL kind of doctrines, then it means that this doctrine is allegedly OP to some extent. Moreover; I do believe that 1 doctrine still shouldn't be completely helpless against another, even if it was supposedly the counter!

Anyways.. from the previous topic, I also quote the following;

Lehr said you asked him to post the replay on High Valley about emplacement spam, Leonida told me you asked him few times to post for you some time ago, and most funny, you even asked me to post for you time ago. I have no problem with you asking other people to start the topic (they wouldn't do it if they didn't agree with you since you're not forcing them anyhow) just so then you can bring your opinion right after.

Its not very nice to balance topics in your way and asking your camarades to put more weight into it, not very fair Tiger, Busted!

Dear sir, I am not going to break my word, as I said I won't post anything further on that topic... Specifically that there is no real game discussion going on, but rather just some off-topic misunderstandings, of which i am currently discussing in private with my mates. Therefore I am not going to answer anything related to this matter here, thanks.

[MarKr]

1vs1 games can be still entertaining..

Sure they can.

and are often played...

Sure they are.

They can't be completely ignored.

Can be and will be.

Nevertheless; 1vs1 games could be still a good way to measure and estimate how far 1 doctrine would be superior to another, which is something that could still help with the general balance. For example, if TH doc loses a 1vs1 game to Armor doc on the other hand.. then it means either the TH doc player seriously fked up or that there is probably something wrong with the balance...

Based on my experience so far I dare to predict that in about 80% of cases, defeated player will be complaining about balance because players can rarely admit that they simply suck at something. So their logic is "if I cannot win, then there is something wrong with the balance" - false logic.

Therefore respectively, if 1 specific doctrine has proven to be too good for 1vs1 games against ALL kind of doctrines, then it means that this doctrine is allegedly OP to some extent.

Not true, because game is balanced for teamplay so when something is harder for some doctrine the team should pick such doctrine combination which will be able to deal with anything. In 1v1 you never have this team element and better/worse skill plays here way bigger role.

Moreover; I do believe that 1 doctrine still shouldn't be completely helpless against another, even if it was supposedly the counter!

Which doctrine is "completely helpless vs another one"? You always have chance to deal with opponent just playing with some doctrines vs others is simply harder or requires more skill and effort to win.

[Shanks]

Good game, but I think they should remove the "High Explosive" to the pounder emplacement, it's OP
I'm an allies player, but this is already a lot of power

[MarKr]

It is OP because it is bugged at the moment - it literary NEVER misses its target, no matter if the target is close or far, or the target is in red or green cover or if it is in smoke, the shot simply cannot miss. It will be fixed. When it is fixed, it will miss more often (especially if infantry will be runing through cover such as craters from arty etc.) and thus will not be OP anymore, and so there is no reason to remove it .

[Krieger Blitzer]

The cool-down time of the 17pdr emp HE round is also very low i think.. on that game with Toni vs Lehr and Wurf, the 17pdr made 2 HE shots in less than 6 seconds at 20:50 but I guess that this might be already noted anyway, it's still worth notifying again tho...

[MarKr]

Recharge time on the thing is 30 seconds. But there are two 17pounder emplacements...any chance the CW player used HE shot from both emplacements?

[Krieger Blitzer]

I really wish i had the replay if that game.

Wish no further though... I have got it for you.

Sadly not the replay file, but I actually recorded that game.. and I was never willing to upload it... Nonetheless, since you keep talking about it in every second post, i have finally decided to upload it, so here it is:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mOKbV3q54
Me (Blitz doc) + sgtToni95 (Terror doc) VS Lehr (RE doc) + Wurf (AB doc)

HOWEVER, the video is unlisted and not available to the public... So I disabled comments, and there is no thumbnail either.

Also, in the video description... I have included all the important moments, which might be relevant to this discussion here.. so you could easily switch throw each one of them by just clicking.

But i am going to list those moments here as well.
So everyone would hopefully have a look at them, and this is what you wanted, i guess.

I even pinged the map while doing my stuff, and, in case you did not notice, i bypassed a 17 pdr emplacement with a tank which took no hit thanks to smoke, then i went decrewing a mortar pit with HE shots

This moment can be observed at 16:55 or so.

Now, few other important moments...
- Jump at 20:50 you would see a single 17pdr emplacement shooting 2 HE rounds, in less than 6 seconds.. almost wiping out 2 volksgrenadier squads.

- At 31:00 you can see Demo StormTroop squad, retreating in crawl mode. [bug]

Oh, looking at the replay again right now.. exactly 20:56 the 17pdr emp which i managed to attack, was rotating itself towards my troops. Then exactly at 20:59 I ordered my troops to shoot the 17pdr with PanzerFaust, Bofor AA was shooting at my inf meanwhile... Exactly at 21:00 the first HE round can be clearly seen leaving the gun barrel hitting my troops. At 21:05 my PanzerFaust hits the dirt! Therefore i quickly ordered both my Volkgrenadier squads to retreat, then exactly at 21:08 the 2nd HE round could be clearly seen leaving the gun barrel from the same 17pdr emplacement hitting my troops again!!! Actually, this happens quite often.. it's not the first time I've seen 17pdr emplacements shooting a lot of HE rounds one after another.. but I thought it might be due to low cool-down or something! isn't it a single HE shot ability?? Or is it a timed ability??!! Strange...
That's only 8 seconds difference between the 2 shots!

[Warhawks97]

Not true, because game is balanced for teamplay so when something is harder for some doctrine the team should pick such doctrine combination which will be able to deal with anything. In 1v1 you never have this team element and better/worse skill plays here way bigger role.

Besides that 1 vs 1 should be played on basically every map listed in BK. In every size and type..... bridges, open, forest, headgerows, urban, small maps, large maps, very large.....

RE will probably lose vs Bk, Luft and the like on urban maps (emplacments less strong, Airplanes more effective i think), maps with forest and many headgerows and large maps due to lack of mobility.... only comet could be threat but panthers can be spammed as well so....And how many emplacments you want to repair and how many sappers you will need to maintain it while opponent can strike wherever he wants with massive ammount of ressources and Panther replacments. Not to mention that PE in general will controle most of the map within first few mins.

[MarKr]

What do you mean "1v1 should be played"? It is the opposite of we keep telling people - 2v2 or 3v3 on big maps.

This is what people SHOULD play but they don't. The keep playing 1v1 on small maps and what does it lead to? Complaints about "air doctrines are OP" - because on small maps AA units have way less time to shoot down planes (would be solved by bigger map); complaints about "PE is lost vs CW because CW caps everything with BOYS and PE cannot use its vehicles" - again problem of map selection. PE has the advantage of mobility in early game which it can utilitze on bigger maps where it takes more time to other factions to move "on foot" (would be solved by bigger map)...what else...complaints about "doctrine X is useless vs doctrine Y" - I would not say "useless" but as already said some doctrines are counters to others, which is intended in the game and weakness of one doctrine should be weight out with strengths of the other player(s) in the team. If you go 1v1, this basic concept is non-existent.

All in all we do not forbid people to play whatever set up they like, we just cannot make balance changes based on complaints from games which are played in a set up for which the balance is not aimed.

[Warhawks97]

What do you mean "1v1 should be played"? It is the opposite of we keep telling people - 2v2 or 3v3 on big maps.

Markr. I am sorry my friend. You misunderstood.


I should have said "These 1vs 1 should be played".

Yeah. 1 vs 1 shouldnt be played. But if anyone wants to draw conclusions out of 1 vs 1, then he should makes These on every single map.

Sorry for not being clear.

I refered actually to:

Nevertheless; 1vs1 games could be still a good way to measure and estimate how far 1 doctrine would be superior to another, which is something that could still help with the general balance. For example, if TH doc loses a 1vs1 game to Armor doc on the other hand.. then it means either the TH doc player seriously fked up or that there is probably something wrong with the balance...

[kwok]

Preach it like it is Markr!!!!!