To me, it seems that the Panther and Stuka have justified costs. It takes an incredible amount of fuel (455 minimum) to build the first Panther, and the stuka is extremely expensive to shoot, and just building one delays the production of the Panther as well.
You are right, it's expensive to get the first Panther but after you have reached that stage you can most of the time build one after another while keeping with the existing Panther(s) the enemy on distance until you got enough of them.
Regarding stuka, you need to invest your ressources once because this unit hardly ever gets killed since it shoot and simply drives away (unless facing high vet priest or just by beeing careless).
Grenadiers, however, I believe are underpriced in this scenario. Maybe bring their cost back to 430 or 450 MP like they were in previous patches (pre-StG upgrade)?
Sturmgrenadiers from PE cost 435 and are worse - don't get me wrong they are a very deadly unit. So I think a little price increase either bei build costs or by reinforment costs (I favor this one) is justified.
There really is no way to stop the grenadiers once they get a panzershreck and 4 StGs, and vet. Machine guns are just a hilarious waste of resources, as without vet, they can crawl up, even while suppressed, and throw a grenade, or with vet, they can literally just walk up right in front of the MG and use their StGs to kill the enemy. Using infantry against them is just trolling for free veterancy, and if they get panzershrecks, you can't do much with a single tank.
Exactly. At the beginning you can stop them but with each brainless attack they will get some XP and vet up and then it get's harder everytime unless you are lucky and kill a whole squad. With US you can stop them by spamming HE-Shermans but then you just have to face 2 additional AT-Teams. As brit, well, not so easy. MGs are useless at one point, crusaders get wrecked, inf gets shred.
Fireflies and camouflaged 17 pounders usually do pretty well against the Panther, though.
If you manage to camouflage one since the enemy sees half of the map with his panthers and will send either some rockets or some grens + schreck-teams.
But otherwise you are right.
Either get rid of Nazi Super Mutant PGrens in Terror Doc and transform them to "Normal PGrens"
get rid of Panther G and KT in Terror Doc and transfer them to TH doc. -> More people playing PE TH, less Sniper spam, no Stuka and Panther Rush from single players anymore + no OP inf in the same doc.
I totally support the first suggestion since those Grens are supposed to be standard unit and no elites. They still can be strong once vetted but you have to be carefull to keep them alive.
But I disagree with the second. Firstly I like the Panther G and KT in terror doc. Secondly it was said multiple times that there will be no such changes beeing made to TH doc.
Better nerf the Panther G. And before you guys start raging about that suggestion, continue reading.
They all have the exact same gun, only difference are dound in the armor.
Armor: Turret front 110 mm (@78°)
Lower hull: 60 mm (@35°)
Side: 40 mm
Armor: Turret front 80mm (@78°)
Lower hull: 60 mm (@35°)
Side: 40 mm
Armor: Turret front 100 mm (@80°)
Lower hull: 50 mm (@35°)
Side: 50 mm
The rest of the armor is one eacht version the same.
So you can see that the Panther G has a bit better turret armor and side armor and that's it. In game it feels like Panther D < Panther D < Panther G.
But why? Add to that the optics upgrade which increases the sight enornomous. So you got an tank/inf raping extremely mobile and well armored scout.... Pls consider removing or changing that upgrade! There is no need for scouts once you have Pantehr Gs and that shouldn't be the case.
The main mistakes of WH grens atm:
1. They get stgs in all docs. I think it should be more a terror special.
2. They use "K98_elite" which is the same as Stormtrooper have. Since there are three k98 types (VG, normal and elite) i do belive that they got mistakenly the elite k98 stats but not sure though. Thing is they once had high cost (450/38) and had to fight only with K98 and single lmg42 which was probably the reason for these rifle stats. But they got cheaper and new abilties and weapons.
3. They are afterall cheaper as other inferior units.
So firstly we have to look what their actual role is in each doctrine. But i wanna point out that their purpose is not to be elites or superior to elites and rather a real standard unit that belongs to the "upper league" of standard soldiers.
Gren Suggestion General:
1. Down their K98 stats from Stormtrooper performence to normal Gren performence. That means their K98 would be as good as those of PEgrens which actually all consider as powerfull ranged unit.
2. Certain weapon upgrades doctrinal
3. Reduce build cost to 380 MP, keep reinforce cost at 35 or up it to 36.
(4. Reduce HP from 80 to 75 per men. CW inf has 70, rangers 75. Rangers has slightly better infantry type therefore lower damageoutput atm. But 80 HP is simply elite so far).
Grens roles in each doctrine:
1. They should hold the line at first. And thats something that is already possible with volksgrens with lmgs and that defensive upgrade (which greatly reduces taken damage, received accuracy and suppression when unit has light or heavy cover).
2. LMG42 (maybe we could allow them to have two of them to underline its rather defensive role in that doc but not sure if it wouldnt be too op though).
1. Assault force and core inf for all roles.
3. STG (only after upgrade?)
(maybe also MP 40 instead stg as upgrades but still receiving two stgs after that terror upgrade for free)
1. Supporting roles (backign storms, cover tanks)
That way they would, at least in damageouput of rifles, become more normal standard infantry. In Terror they would remain strong actually.
I like those suggestions but I'm not sure if they are enough.
he problem imo is that the Panther G performs too good. And that's why each and every Terror player simply waits for this unit since he knows how powerfull it is. Of course you can argument that it can be oneshoted and you know what, the Terror player knows that too and that's why those Panthers are only used to keep the enemy at distance and have a mobile scout in order to bomb everything until he has an army of Panther Gs. If those Panthers wouldn't be the game decider this tatcic wouldn't work at all. So pls nerf the sight range of this unit.
With this huge sight it's almost impossible to ambush one Panther and without ambushing it's slmost impossible to destroy it (bombers can be dogded or shot down and and arty can be dodged too unless it's an high vetted priest shooting).
I chuckled at cyber's code. It's even funnier because his name is cyber. NEEEERRRD.
Just kidding I love it.
Glad you like it