Volks

[Kasbah]

Hi,

I pretty much like the Volks and always choose them, but aren't they a little OP?

Cheap price, possibility of having an mp40, faust, mg34... In fact I prefer to build a first volks squad and lather a second rather than going for grens. Ok they have less health but 2 squads allow much more options.

Maybe grens could get (again) a small price decrease, or volks a small increase. I don't know. And by the way, terror grens could the old kch skin for one member of the squad. It would be cool.

Just asking

[Wake]

Volks are fine right now. To make them any good, a player has to put lots of munition into upgrades for them, otherwise they are terrible.

MG34 makes them very good, but costs 75 munition, and more often than not, that munition is better used elsewhere.

Panzerfaust makes them OK, but costs 50 munition to buy then 35 to fire each time. Quite expensive.

MP40 costs 50 munition, and this makes them decent, but riflemen with grease guns may win a fight vs them and rangers with thompsons will win vs them. The MP40 is actually overpriced here for what you get (Ranger thompsons also 50 muni, thompson is better than MP40, and riflemen grease guns cost 25 muni).

So the only time when volks are really there are in early game, and if a player decides to give them these "good" upgrades, then they can no longer throw grenades/make MG42/make mortars. Once it is mid-game, volks have such small health that they usually get raped by vehicles or die off.

Unless you see a volks squad with MG34 in a trench or behind sand bags, you won't see them in late game, because they have died already and there are much better units to make.

[Kasbah]

Yeah, you are right but grenadiers upgrades cost also a lot, even more.
Are volks stronger than luft pios? Because I feel these are really terrible

[Warhawks97]

I always get them. Get lmg, use cover and they can bash pretty much everything.

Its true that they are very good for their cost. Just as Pgrens or CW inf they perform best in ranged combat, especially when upgraded with ranged weapon. In late game their panzerfaust can become pretty usefull vs churchills and immobilized/damaged jumbo tanks and pershings.

Also they are so far the cheapest inf to reinforce (only engis/pios are cheaper), only 7 Men US rifle squad is bit cheaper.

Thing is, that their K98 stats are just as good as PE Pgrens which is strange since they cost easily 100 MP more. And this is what makes me to prefer two Volks squads over single PE Pgren squad. Pgrens have i think bit better armor type (and more HP?) but thats it. The cheaper volks makes it easier to combine them with other units.


I wouldnt make volks more expensive (that wouldnt make them being core unit anymore) but also WH grens not cheaper (they are still much stronger and have elite inf stats or even better).


But i would tune some rifle stats instead. Volks shouldnt be as good as PE Pgrens (or those not as worse as volks). I think i gonna open new subject about it. I already wanted but uni kept be extremly busy the last weeks.


Btw. has anyone every used Molotov cocktail vs CW truck? Long time ago i figured out that the molotov deals a lot of damage to CW truck over time (almost 50% damage or so+ engine damaged). So if you get to meet the CW truck in early game then just throw a molotov on it.

[Yafa]

overpowered volks ! are you serious ? do you mean overpriced volks ?? i think they should cost less because riflemen are much better with bars and grease + rifle grenade altogether .... they can instantly suppress anything even without using suppression ability if they get 4 bars specifically when there is a captain around.

[Warhawks97]

Oh yeah, coool. 45 ammo for BAR, 35 for rifle nade upgrade, 20 ammo for rifle nade shot (or 60 coz the first two fail anyway), 40 ammo to suppress. And thats all to kill a Volks squad. grease become useless in mid game. As soon as vehicles and lmgs pop out rifles wont get close enough anyway. also you cant have all three things at once.

Just in my last game i gave lmg to volks. And they did almost just as good as grens. I got them vet 3 and they bashed every ranger squad (in ranged fight by far and rangers didnt survive the "closing in move". So yeah, Rifles with upgrades and abilties worth 100 ammo to kill one volks squad. Volks with 75 lmg killing rangers, commandos and SAS before they can get close enough. In ranged combat with lmg volks beating everything but enfield commandos with lmg.

My fav combo is Puma with 20 mm + volks+ 50 mm. That way you can easily prevent to get into a close ranged combat. And in ranged combat the Volks beating rangers and stuff.

Fun fact: The ranged damageoutput of Pios is as good or better than those of rifle squad. Once even better than rangers which luckily got fixed. But no US unit can match up with Volksgrens damageoutput in ranged combat.

But tell me which maps you play? how you get 4 BARs on one squad? or even two + rifle nade upgrade? On which map you get so much ammo to use suppression ability and rifle nade against every target? I am curious.

Overpriced units in game:
Sdkfz 250/8 with 75 mm kwk.
Stuart M3 and M5
CW inf section (at least 35 MP too much)
Sappers (50 Mp too much)
Maybe Puma with sdkfz 234/1 with 50 mm kwk


And its a fact you cant change that Volks can be more compared to CW inf section. In ranged combat they beat everything but enfield commandos. (sure, not if your volks are vet 1 and inf section vet 4 or so). And they are easily as good as PE Pgrens.

[Kasbah]

Yes, I agree with Warhawks. Let's leave the prices like they are but the K98 can not have the same stats for volks and for PanzerGrenadiers. OK PG can build and repair but if they don't get the gewehr they are not very performing in combat and often need to have an mg next to them or pick up a weapon from the ground.

A long long time ago in the old forum it was suggested that PanzerGrenadiers got an mp40 for close combat. This is another topic but if PG are supposed to be basic infantry they should be equipped with at least a close range weapons, while heavy sappers should be, well, the basic sappers of PE. And assault grenadiers should remain as they are, strong sappers with every good weapon available.

[Yafa]

In ranged combat with lmg volks beating everything but enfield commandos with lmg.

if they will be not as good at long range operations anymore ,then what should they be good at ?? they are already inferior at closer ranges against m1 garand and m1 carbine ... lee enfield or sten .... and grease or cheap thompsons too.
i thank the god you are not the developer !

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Axis already have problems with fighting allied infantry at the beginning ( volks are so much worse than inf section, or rifles ) Nerfing their rifle is a mad idea.

[Warhawks97]

PE has some trouble in my opinion because they have basically one inf squad to fight, building base and repairing schwimmwagen.

But WH has a pretty good start, if not the best since schwimmwagen got added. They can get up sandbags wherever they stay which is a nice advantage in early engagment. I get up sandbags wherever i stay and thus being able to stnd any enemie fire for a long time. They lose vs CW inf at 25-35 range. Above that volks should stand a good chance unless the enemie supports his unit with lieutenant. In ranged fight they take on rangers pretty easily. WH units have very good damageoutput for their cost. Considering the damageoutput then you can set pios on rifle squad level, volks on ranger and CW inf section level and Grens on Enfield commando squad.


The schwimmwagen is pretty good when combined with volks and pios. Probably best combo atm. The schwimm takes lots of hits and suppressing and killing rifles behind green cover.

So yeah, PE is tricky atm in early stage but WH is pretty cool afterall.

[Kasbah]

Yeah the problem here is that volks are very good for their price but PG aren't at all, at least in early game.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Better to buff pgrens than, i like the idea about giving them MP40 upgrade.

[Kasbah]

A small buff with their standard weapon would be good, yes, and I really support the idea of a mp40 for close range. Let's see what Mark or Wolf think...

[Warhawks97]

Better to buff pgrens than, i like the idea about giving them MP40 upgrade.

I dont think that it helps that much. If i checked it correctly they do not have more HP than volks (just slightly better armor type i think). So they would suffer just like volks and rifles as they arent suited really for close combat.

PE Pgrens are pretty cool, especially with G43. And they do have some nice abilties. I would reduce their squad size to 5 men at start, thus dropping build cost and thus allowing to get more units faster on the field. I would also buff their lon range (25-35) K98 stats.

Check that for more info:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=929

[Butterkeks]

I wouldn't say that Volks are OP. I actually think they are expensive to equip, but then deadly. That's ok for me.

overpowered volks ! are you serious ? do you mean overpriced volks ?? i think they should cost less because riflemen are much better with bars and grease + rifle grenade altogether .... they can instantly suppress anything even without using suppression ability if they get 4 bars specifically when there is a captain around.

So you compare a 265 MP unit to a 240 (?) MP unit with 155 Ammo upgrades + 250 MP captain?
Well that's so OP...

Did you also recognize that PE Assault Grens (435 MP) wit 200 ammo upgrades can bash US Engineers (120 MP) at all rangres?!!!! SO OP!!!!

So much for the lols.

Better to buff pgrens than, i like the idea about giving them MP40 upgrade.

Well...
Do they really need that? I mean, you have a 6 man squad that's capable of fighting every early inf squad + can reapir and build fortifications.

MP40 costs 50 munition

and riflemen grease guns cost 25 muni).

Yes, but MP 40 upgrade gives you 4 (if not even 5 or 6, not quite sure on this one) MP40s, while grease gun upgrade gives you two Grease guns iirc.

[Krieger Blitzer]

-U don't have to also upgrade the Volks with anything on the other hand too or what?? They never need Officer as well??!!
Not to mention that the LMG34 requires the 3rd phase upgrade btw...

-Why do u need 6 Grease by default to an early unit that costs only 315 MP while it can build and repair stuff very quickly? Funny logic.

-Probably u should NOW check the bugs section regarding this matter.

[Kasbah]

Because the Volks are very well equipped I think PG could get an mp40 for close combat and early game. Later it's ok because you can pick up weapons from the ground and have an MG to cover the squad equipped with the deadly gewehr. But imo the early game has some troubles. Maybe an mp40 for only 2 members of the squad would be good.

[Butterkeks]

-U don't have to also upgrade the Volks with anything on the other hand too or what?? They never need Officer as well??!!
Not to mention that the LMG34 requires the 3rd phase upgrade btw...

Thing is:
Unequipped Volks will win vs unequipped Rifles on long distance. If I say that fully equipped Rifles are OP over unequipped Volks, than that statement is simply stupid. And fully equiped Volks will win vs fully equiped rifles.

-Why do u need 6 Grease by default to an early unit that costs only 315 MP while it can build and repair stuff very quickly? Funny logic.

Typical Tiger. What do combat engineers have to do with this?
PLease just don't answer to this and stay to the topic.

Because the Volks are very well equipped I think PG could get an mp40 for close combat and early game. Later it's ok because you can pick up weapons from the ground and have an MG to cover the squad equipped with the deadly gewehr. But imo the early game has some troubles. Maybe an mp40 for only 2 members of the squad would be good.

Well I wouldn't mind. What I simply meant is: As PE, I have my Grens and very soon Pak (that can also kill inf very effective) and Schwimm. So I don't really see the need to give the standard PE inf any more weapon upgrades.

[Yafa]

Unequipped Volks will win vs unequipped Rifles on long distance.

what about on short distance? thing is:- unequipped riflemen will win versus unequipped volksgrenadiers then ,right? that was my point .... riflemen have good weapons too and both grease and bars don't require any phase upgrades and you get suppressing power by that !
so at the end it's like what you said firstly since i also think it's ok or balanced and fair enough on this part already

I wouldn't say that Volks are OP. I actually think they are expensive to equip, but then deadly. That's ok for me.

[Warhawks97]

Volks beat rifles from 15-60 range. 15-25 is a draw. The Damegouput of Rifles at long range isnt higher than those of WH Pios.

Volks basically need only a 75 lmg and they beat any allied inf at distance. Me and a mate started a new strategy. Volks spamm with schwimms (and the pios) and then going for the Pumas (with 20 mm and then 75 mm gun). The Volks have several advantages over every other starting unit:

1. They damageoutput is the best. As good as PE grens and able to beat CW inf section in rifle combat.
2. Low upkeep and reinforce cost. That means that its not hard to get 3-4 squads on the field among with cheap cost to maintain it. The Upkeep is 6 MP (Rifles 11) and 22 reinforce (Rifles 24, Pgrens 30). That means that rifle squad spam wouldnt be so effective and would greatly reduce the tier up. The Jeep can be encountered by getting sandbags up all the time. Rifles cant do that to protect themself against Schwimms.


So you can get many that can get perfect cover wherever they are with low maintaining costs. Meanwhile damageoutput and survivability is almost as good as those of CW inf section and Pgrens.



MP40 for Pgrens makes no sense. They dont have the survivability and would just end in a waste. Getting into close combat by purpose makes only real sense when having kind of smoke cover, many units or a combo of ranged units that provide fire support.

But when you have just one inf squad in the early stage that is good at ranged combat then it makes no sense to get into close combat. If you would run towards allied inf with early Pgren would just be suicide. So better beat enemies in ranged combat and hold the line as long as possible. In case the enemie attempts to get closer then get G43. The G43 scopped will bash any early allied inf that is attempting to get close due to extrem high dps. So there is no point in getting some Mp40.

@Butter: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=929

Here you can get everything more detailed.