Call in KT!

[Krieger Blitzer]

The price of any tank in Bk seem to be generally considered
accordingly to the following conditions;

> More than a single one is available at a time >> cost fuel >>> cost MP >>>> no upgrades applied by default >>>>> no commander inside = not a call in tank <<<<<< less CP to be required.
Examples:-
Actually most of the tanks...

Or
> Only a single one is available at a time >> cost no fuel >>> cost even more MP >>>> all upgrades applied by default >>>>> a commander already inside = a call in tank <<<<<< More CP to be required.
Examples:-
Jumbo, PAce, Croc, TAce, SP, JT, Elephant, Calliope, AVRE etc.

WEIRD EXCEPTION:-
The KT!!!
Although that it's a single tank available at a time.. yet... It's somehow the only one that is not a call in!!!!!!

The KT costs almost as much as a PAce in MP plus 200 or 210 fuel while also having no commander inside neither any upgrades applied by default... Not to mention that it requires 11 CPs.. being the most expensive tank in the whole game.

So; here is the suggestion clearly...
Vet 0 KT as a call in tank for a cost of 1850-1900 MP!
Having all the upgrades applied and an extended view for sure just like the SP.. I mean all the upgrades including the scope too, and a Vet 2 commander as well.
It should be still requiring the production upgrade anyways after all...

[Viper]

YES

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Terror will be too OP than, because in late game KT will always be fielded and immidiatelly recalled after beeing destroyed.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Joking?
It could have the same cool down time of the JT or even more then! That's not an issue at all...

[Warhawks97]

Terror will be too OP than, because in late game KT will always be fielded and immidiatelly recalled after beeing destroyed.

yeah.

I also dont see a problem with the current state. Also when axis WH player manages to get veteran grens (or storms) losses stay and reinforcments quite low. Not rarely axis WH players keep an reserve of arround 1000-1400 MP in reserve even when they already have an Panther. Sukin always keeps sufficient MP reserve to rebuild any of his tanks. Same do i and many other WH players. Elephants are already quite frequently re- called in with 1500 MP cost and those are way easier to kill as an KT. KT´s atm can bash a shitload of enemie units. They ignore all kinds of paks (lehr yesterday had a game where his teammate Saint Adolf ran with KT into two ambushed 17 pdr and 17 pdr emplacment, killing both 17 pdr by receiving only one pen hit but also killing several tanks.

So KT´s would be fielded a way too often and before the first got destroyed the second would get called in. Idk where you live but unless you face veted Priests or unless you you get sieged in your own base already the KT can be a real pain for all enemies.

And not even imaging two terror players. In fact terror players wouldnt have to care for any important res point. They dont need ammo for stgs and only little ammo to use nebler VT (which afterall can damage emplacments and killing paks etc). With that change they wouldnt even need fuel to field a strong tank.


Keep it as it is. Those that are called in atm are very specialised tanks. And Pershing ace.... i havent seen it in a long time but whenever i did it got killed quite easily by schrecks but also Panthers and KT´s etc. So you go "retard" again when comparing Persh ace with KT in such a silly way.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Did I just compare between the KT and the PAce?! I only said that the KT costs almost as much as a PAce plus a certain amount of fuel too.. how does it seem to u that I compared between them like this??!! Such a blind...

Here by this sentence I just reffered to how expensive it is, as it also costs 11 CPs while the SP costs only 9 CPs; in addition it still doesn't have a commander inside neither any upgrades applied which means that u will yet have to pay even more in fact in order to hopefully get it as a fully combat ready tank.

And I didn't say that it will have the same cool down of the Elephant but I said the JT, so why mentioning about the Elephant now??!! Elephant requires 9 CPs as well btw.. this is what u really can't compare to the KT.

JT costs 10 CPs on the other hand, 2000 MP and the highest cool down ever... As I said the KT would then have the cool down of the JT or even more.. not the Elephant!!! O_O

The KT can't stay as it is.. and even Sukin himself as well as other players such as Tor for example do realize very well that it's overpriced as they all already expressed it clearly before.. so keep that in mind.
But perhaps we are just not really sure regarding what is best to be done for solving this issue with the KT yet... If not this idea then it would be another.. or possibly just reducing the current price of it after all.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Its difficult to judge if its really overpriced or not, the thing is KT always getting blown by Long Tom or Typhoon run, thats why it feels really dissapointing to loose this army-cost unit in a blink of an eye. But on the other hand except this abilities alies doesnt have much things to stop KT, especially when terror player follows up his atack with walking stuka barrages.

[Warhawks97]

this is topic number? 10000 in which you refered to that 9 vc 11 cp thing?

And yeah, the KT is a strong tank. There isnt much that penetrates it. Arty can be dodged (except vet priest) but well. 1400 MP and 210 fuel for a unit that bounces even 90 mm shells with APCR rounds with a more than 50% chance. More or less unpenetrationable for US 76 guns and even 17 pdrs struggles a lot and comes never over 30% pen chance at max range. The itself bounces pretty much all zooks and can open fire before enemie can return (SP as exception). It also penetrates so far every tank from far using basic AP rounds.


So the current cost doesnt seem off for me. As only Hardcounter i do see the priest or map characteristics.


But tell me in which logic this tank should be called in. Just because it can be build jsut once? I would rather make all tanks being produced with fuel cost before adding more 0 fuel tanks of which all are very specific call ins designed to be effective against one target type but vulnerable to many other.

The main problem most players have with axis expensive tanks is that they either call them when enemie has so far only inf and arty. They use them on very narrowed maps and finally they wasted and gave up all tactical initiatives, even giving up using recons and able to see only targets that are 10 meters away from base just to spare res and to get them as fast as possible.

But when they get this tank in a mid stage of a game where movment is not limited by bridges or anything and when enemie has more mixed forces of inf and tanks then the KT can literally drive frontally through their defense and smashing everything that comes in its path.

And its funny. When there is a KT that kills 5 tanks of which 2 are fireflies, one m10, one e8 and one jackson by getting just like 50% damage then its normal. When a Jagdpanther kills SP and Jacks B in stat mode in a 2 vs 1 then its all ok. When a Jagdpanther kills the entire RE force that includes two fireflies, command tank, churchill and comet without being ambushed even that its also nothing abnormal and never mentioned in the forum. When a panther kills two fireflies and M10 wolverine without getting penetrated a single time than its considered as normal. When a KT roles over 17 pdrs and attacking even a wall of 17 pdr emplacments by getting just once out of 10 times penetrated by those then nobody every loses a word about it here. When a Jagdpanzer IV/70 bashes two Jumbos and one Pershing (from ambush) without using AP rounds then its again the most normal thing and expected to be so. When a Jagdpanther bounces 76 shells from very close range fired from hellcat and surviving 4 pen shots without a single crit then nobody runs to forum.


But for god sake, if you have a problem with the CP´s (what you keep mentioning in all of your posts) then just ask for (a) CP swap(s) and i would support it.

Also if you havent figured it yet, the WH is the only faction that has two tanks as call in. Both with thick armor and capable guns. Why should all three docs have a call in Tank?

Its difficult to judge if its really overpriced or not, the thing is KT always getting blown by Long Tom or Typhoon run, thats why it feels really dissapointing to loose this army-cost unit in a blink of an eye. But on the other hand except this abilities alies doesnt have much things to stop KT, especially when terror player follows up his atack with walking stuka barrages.

yes. On the field using normal combat unit at which the KT can fire (paks, tanks etc) there isnt really much that can stop it which is absolutely OK for me. And with halfway skilled players that use recons and support attacks with walking stuka and grens the tank can lead an assault that can almost end in an instant win.

Long tom and airplanes is the most common death but usually first when the tank got somehow damaged on engine and tracks with stickies and gomman bombs which can en up really bloody for allied to do that.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Tell u in which logic this tank should be called in once again?! The first post is pretty much explaining that already...

And in which logic this tank should be not a call in??!!

If it becomes a call in with a long cool down.. then it's still bloody expensive anyways, u would rather make all the other tanks of the same category to cost fuel as well but u wouldn't rather to make only this tank to be like the rest on the other hand?? Really??!! That looks like the shortest best way to u, srsly? Easier to apply changes upon all the similar tanks than to apply a lonely change to a single one tank in order to be like the rest???!!!
Huh; are u telling me that u r actually up to take the longer turn adding fuel prices to the SP, the Jumbo, the Croc as well, and the JT etc. JUST because of being so fking afraid making the KT as a call in?! U can't be surious...

[MarKr]

Probably not gonna happen - as said by other members it is not really needed. Even your first post doesn't say anything about balance issues but it is rather a thing that you perceive as "weird" because it doesn't fit the pattern you described above but I think that KT was not made a call-in for a reason.
So far I haven't heard a reason strong enough to support this.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Well, yes.. as I already said that above also... It's an option or just an idea at the end. If not; then it could be another! Maybe just a simple cost reduction after all...

But honestly I do as well believe the same btw.. that the KT wasn't firstly made as a call in actually for a strong reason... However that I am so curious to know it too.

[Warhawks97]

there is probably no real logic behind call ins. It switched sometimes.

For example once the wespe was a 720 MP call in and Hummel got build in TH command (yes, TH command like Panthers, Tigers etc and TH command was like 625 MP expensive) for 580 MP and 100 fuel. Then they switched it and Hummel became a call in.


If you ask me i would rather aim for making all tanks being produced with fuel cost. Coz a Tank that cost only MP is pretty hard to balance. Some maps are MP intensive but fuel starved (eg graves bridges). Others provide lots of fuel that is also easy to get and to defend but are extremly MP starved (autry, some 1 vs 1 Maps). So sometimes a 1800 Mp call in tank is cheaper than a 140 fuel tank and sometimes a 200 fuel tank is cheaper than 2000 MP tank.

And when i am now looking at larger maps that provide massive MP (lots of the very large Maps) but also when playing 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 to larger maps (eg 2 vs 2 on graves) players would have always the res to get a 1800 MP KT but also getting additional Panthers as the MP income simply allows that and fuel barrier wouldnt be there anymore since only one would cost fuel.

And when i get out Panthers all two or three mins with the massive MP income i dont even want to imagine to simply add a KT to them. This combined with a huge space to maneuver when playing larger maps would make that simply a way too OP. I could drive accross the map, roaming etc with Panther and kT at the same time which both kill all tanks and inf.

a Elephant and JT can be called quickly as well on such maps but they are slow, have no turret and can roam arround as they are easily stopped then by inf.

But i doubt you didnt think about players that do not only play 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 on small (MP starved) maps. Some of us do play on larger maps and having a 1000 MP reserve with Panther and inf already fielded and still 320 MP per min as income. KT would be easily be fielded right together with Panther G´s and what else.

Dont say an SP is a good roamer as well. I would never dare to drive with it elsewhere. Schrecks and ambushes would take it out too easy and i get it just once.