Snipers shooting from transporters

Do you have a balancing problem or do you want to make a suggestion for the game? You are at the right place.

Should we implement some nerfs for snipers shooting from within vehicles?

Poll ended at 19 Sep 2015, 12:51

Yes
15
83%
No
3
17%
 
Total votes: 18

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MarKr
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Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby MarKr » 12 Sep 2015, 12:51

We think this is quite abusable as snipers in a halftrack or any other transporter that allows for loaded infantry to shoot are kind of "mobile sniper position". We might implement some nerfs (accuracy, cooldown...maybe complete disable of targetting) for snipers loaded in such vehicles but we want to avoid rants about how we nerfed something that was not asked for...so yes or no?

Also if you are for it, maybe add a short comment whether you would be for implementing nerfs or preventing fire completely. And when I say "short comment" i really mean short (10 lines top) I will not read walls of text ;).

We still reserve the right not to act according to the poll results but the results will surely be taken into consideration.
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Tiger1996
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby Tiger1996 » 12 Sep 2015, 13:00

I didn't vote yet, as I will vote later.. but apparently 'NO' for completely preventing! I love the Kangaroos with 2 snipers inside... And it costs a lot of MP though. Also; once u kill it, it would be usually a disaster for the CW player :P

Maybe some slight nerfs only :)

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Sukin-kot (SVT)
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 12 Sep 2015, 13:36

Firstly: Its only possible with Kangaroo.
Secondly: Double sniper + vehicle will cost you 1000 mp, very risky investment, since it can be one shoted by stuka rocket, plane, pak and etc.

Thats why im for "No", thats a cool feature with own advantages and disatvantages.

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Tiger1996
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby Tiger1996 » 12 Sep 2015, 13:45

It's not only possible with Kangaroos btw :D Even the Wh HTs allow it ;) But not with 360 degrees unlike Kangaroos! ^^

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Warhawks97
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby Warhawks97 » 12 Sep 2015, 13:59

Not a complete remove. But some penalties for snipers maybe (accuracy, cooldown idk). I mean the pro is already that snipers inside vehicles cant get sniped by enemie snipers (right?).

kwok
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby kwok » 13 Sep 2015, 08:29

As a strategy game, I think every decision should have a strategic gain and cost. Snipers are high damage - low mobility units. Adding capability should have a cost, so if snipers are given more mobility they should be lessened in damage (accuracy, whatever, original strength).

Do I get to speak on a previous comment?
What risks are there putting it in a car? Airstrike? Arty? That's a risk already inherent in being a unit. In fact, it gains mobility increasing its chances of survival to off-map abilities. The only added risk is the fact it can be killed by AT guns better which isn't that hard to avoid since AT guns have low mobility.

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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby Tor » 13 Sep 2015, 10:09

Moving= cant hit.

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crimax
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby crimax » 13 Sep 2015, 14:14

Good poll.
Remove this abused, shitty, anti historical thing from the mod, please.
Snipers are famous to stay in a place, immobilized for hours, NOT in a truck dicking around and shooting everywhere. Just ridiculous.
Company Of Heroes is the 'water gun version' of Blitzkrieg Mod" (Heinz Wilhelm Guderian, 1939)

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Tiger1996
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby Tiger1996 » 13 Sep 2015, 18:33

Plz not a complete disabling, only nerfing...

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MarKr
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby MarKr » 13 Sep 2015, 18:34

Tor wrote:Moving= cant hit.
I was thinking about this too but it would not solve anything, player would simply stop for a second, let the sniper shoot and move again... So if nerfing happens, it needs to be always when in transporter.
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Tiger1996
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby Tiger1996 » 13 Sep 2015, 19:28

But it's not only about the snipers btw, as it might be even more OP when u put 2 Vicker HMGs inside the Kangaroo... Such a deadly inf killer machine!!

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Warhawks97
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby Warhawks97 » 13 Sep 2015, 20:53

Most deadly anti vehicle vehicle: Transporter with schrecks or zooks inside:p


Back to topic: Most weapons seem to be a lot more accurate when fired out of vehicles. Zooks tend to hit more often when shooting out of a fast moving Halftrack than when staying in their own feed.

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Butterkeks
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby Butterkeks » 14 Sep 2015, 08:40

Warhawks97 wrote:Back to topic: Most weapons seem to be a lot more accurate when fired out of vehicles. Zooks tend to hit more often when shooting out of a fast moving Halftrack than when staying in their own feed.


I also feel like it would behave like this.
Yes for nerfs. Kangaroo with double sniper is quite unkillable when used by a good player.

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ShadowIchigo
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby ShadowIchigo » 16 Sep 2015, 11:32

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:Firstly: Its only possible with Kangaroo.
Secondly: Double sniper + vehicle will cost you 1000 mp, very risky investment, since it can be one shoted by stuka rocket, plane, pak and etc.

Thats why im for "No", thats a cool feature with own advantages and disatvantages.



I agree with sukin, I votes no because you are taking a HUGE.risk. plus keeping your kang alive reflects the players micro and skill, because it is quite hard to do so.

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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 16 Sep 2015, 17:03

Yeah, with nerf ( even little one ) you will kill sense in this ability, who will risk concentrating such a shitload of resourses when snipers will miss every second shot from vehicle.

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MarKr
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby MarKr » 16 Sep 2015, 17:24

Well...nobody will...wouldn't that be the point of the nerf? :D

Also "abilities" should be things that a unit can intentionaly do. I am not really sure if this (double sniper shooting accurately from transporter) was an intention so in this case the line between an ability and an exploit is really thin.
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Sukin-kot (SVT)
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 16 Sep 2015, 17:34

Thats another reduction of possible tactics, what is sucks.

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ShadowIchigo
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby ShadowIchigo » 16 Sep 2015, 18:04

Mark, it is almost like you said before about combat value... it cost a lot to do so. Higher price doesn't mean OP unit necessarily, i know. But think of it as an expensive tank just not a tank.. once lost - which can be done very easily - it takes a huge toll on your economy

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MarKr
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby MarKr » 16 Sep 2015, 18:56

Thats another reduction of possible tactics, what is sucks.
That's just as if I said that nerfing 107 mortar in last patch was bad because it reduced possible tactics. Or simililar to saying that we should enable transporting mortar units in Kangaroos and allow them fire from inside which would be an equivalent of mortar HT - each unit has some pros and cons. Snipers can fire at long range but have relatively low movement speed and if spotted by bullets firing unit, they can die fast. With this "feature" they retain long range fire, but their mobility is much better and even if spotted it is enough to drive back and snipers become much more resistant to to the units that shouldbe their primary counter...

Mark, it is almost like you said before about combat value... it cost a lot to do so. Higher price doesn't mean OP unit necessarily, i know. But think of it as an expensive tank just not a tank.. once lost - which can be done very easily - it takes a huge toll on your economy
And this is where the opinions significantely vary - you say that losing such unit combo is easy, others say that if used correctly, they are nigh impossible to kill.

Is it really such pain in the ass to use snipers on foot - as they were meant to be used?
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Tiger1996
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby Tiger1996 » 16 Sep 2015, 19:17

Yes, despite that I believe the nerf might be actually disliked by so many including even myself.. yet I think that it's necessary specifically since u r unable to snipe back the snipers when they are inside the Kangaroo which is a bit too lame to be honest! So a significant accuracy reduction when transported would be cool... And btw the Kangaroos would be still useful with 2 Vicker HMG teams or 2 Piats and 1 Lieutenant with binoculars activated as well ;) This change won't kill Kangaroos I mean :)

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Butterkeks
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby Butterkeks » 17 Sep 2015, 08:41

Yeah, I don't often agree with Tiger1996, but this time I do^^

The kangaroo won't become obsolete, there are still plenty ways how it can be used but I consider the double snipers simply OP.

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ShadowIchigo
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby ShadowIchigo » 17 Sep 2015, 22:41

MarKr wrote:
Thats another reduction of possible tactics, what is sucks.
That's just as if I said that nerfing 107 mortar in last patch was bad because it reduced possible tactics. Or simililar to saying that we should enable transporting mortar units in Kangaroos and allow them fire from inside which would be an equivalent of mortar HT - each unit has some pros and cons. Snipers can fire at long range but have relatively low movement speed and if spotted by bullets firing unit, they can die fast. With this "feature" they retain long range fire, but their mobility is much better and even if spotted it is enough to drive back and snipers become much more resistant to to the units that shouldbe their primary counter...

Mark, it is almost like you said before about combat value... it cost a lot to do so. Higher price doesn't mean OP unit necessarily, i know. But think of it as an expensive tank just not a tank.. once lost - which can be done very easily - it takes a huge toll on your economy
And this is where the opinions significantely vary - you say that losing such unit combo is easy, others say that if used correctly, they are nigh impossible to kill.

Is it really such pain in the ass to use snipers on foot - as they were meant to be used?



No it is not so bad haha, I was not going to argue just wanted to put why I voted no. I had a few other details, but I didn't want to go on about it. If ou do decide to change anything, I do hope you would instead reduce the accuracy which would make the most sense, instead of removing their ability to shoot at all.

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Warhawks97
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby Warhawks97 » 18 Sep 2015, 15:46

Have you checked if Hendheld AT´s have some kind of accuracy boost when shooting out of a Transporter? Coz it feels like that sometimes.

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MarKr
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby MarKr » 18 Sep 2015, 18:13

I just checked it and found nothing that would suggest they get any buffs when they are in a transporter...isn't it really just a feeling?
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Warhawks97
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Re: Snipers shooting from transporters

Postby Warhawks97 » 18 Sep 2015, 18:47

Maybe it feels like that because they are coming closer than typicall frontal rush attacks and so other range accuracy modifiers do apply.


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