Casaulty Clearing Station/Triage Center

[Warhawks97]

Well heavily wounded soldiers are also not reformed into brand new squad realistically. I wouldn't put realism into this...

1.) not every soldier get collected
2.) some soldiers are instandly dead or shred into pieces.


Also dont you want to reduce arty? Its also part of it. When i gonna face some defenses i would have some options with cheaper casaulty clearing stations.

When i know that i would collect some of my wounded soldiers i would start attacks here and there to test and to exploit the enemie defenses knowing that a lost men is also a ressource. After a while i woud have either enough soldiers to overrun the defenses with some flanking moves or i would have found an area where no strong defense exist. Arty would then be used if i cant crack the defense. As long as a know that each men is a lost men i would always try to get arty if possible and stomp the entire map before moving a single soldier our of my cover.

See it from that point of view.


At least 300 mp for a unmobile station where i cant reinforce and which an very easy and preferd arty target (as enemie will know that it is an easy 300 mp target+ probably additional soldiers that are healing there) is insane. If placed away from arty range you just have heal station for 300 mp. Trucks and HT´s heal and reinforce for cheaper price. If placed near frontline to pick up casaulties its quickly bombed by arty before the first squad comes out. Even if one entire squad is collected its still not cost effective for US at least. Its unlikely and happens rarely that such a station near front will survive long enough to get two squads.

[BffWithDEATH]

Yeah, these are way too expensive for US it's even more expensive to produce a Triage than it is to produce an entire Rifle squad...

All triages should cost 200mp in my opinion and have the healing range of the Wehrmacht Triage.

Right now Wehrmacht actually have the best deal when it comes to Triages.
Theirs is the cheapest with the best range...

[MarKr]

Right now Wehrmacht actually have the best deal when it comes to Triages.
Theirs is the cheapest with the best range...

The deal is that it is cheaper in terms of MP but also costs fuel and has bigger healing range, no problem there from my point of view...

EDIT:
Also why is it too expensive? The radius in which they collect wounded soldiers is quite big. Also you get squads for free - yes the first squad usually covers the build price but with the second you already are in greens.
In vCoH these stations were meant to be mainly healing points and free squads were kind of a bonus feature. In BK there are many other healing options for each faction so the feature of free soldiers is considered as its primary feature which shouldn't be the case imo. I'd say that these stations should have faster healing rate than other healing-providing abilities/units so building it would have other advantages than just getting free squads.

[BffWithDEATH]

The fuel cost is so low that it isn't even noticed when your playing Wehrmacht
but the healing range and manpower cost edge over their counterparts is noticed.

If Triages were cheap for everyone, people wouldn't be holding back all of the time playing extremely defensive bombing the enemy till there is nothing left with Arty and Mortars before probing with expensive regular infantry that once a man is shot he is lost for good..

[Warhawks97]

180/10 with big heal range and a squad that would actually cost 265 mp? in early not that cheap but in late game i build a few of them as i dont really care about 10 fuel.

The 10 fuel i pay is more or less that what i spare in tank fuel upkeep compared to US tanks.


Markr.. did you read my post??


2 options:

1. Build 300 mp expensive thing in a save area out of arty range but then its definately out of collecting range..... 300 mp just for healing while all other pay the half and have it even mobile with reinforcing ability..... very fair....
2. Build 300 mp close enough to front to collect wounded but then you wont put your units arround there for healing as it is too dangerous. Also i gurantee that it wont survive long enough to collect two squads... often not even one.... for the enemie its like: "Oh, an easy 300 mp target for my nebelwerfer"



Thats why i dont understand those 300 mp.... using it only for healing placed back in save area its too expensive as all other get cheaper ways. Close to front to collect wounded is also not cost effective.


And i asked for dividing it. One station for heal only with cost of 180-200 and one only to collect wounded but placed at a dangeorus area for 150 mp.

[Yummy]

Who attacks your medics, Oliver? People, please, don't kill the medic stations - there is a Geneva Convention rule after all! All medic stations should have the same radius, their price should be balanced according to unit they "produce", PE field hospital should collect wounded soldiers as well, if it is possible to be coded. And I would really love to see a new better skin of medical station - to look more of a field hospital , but that wont happen.

[Warhawks97]

Who attacks your medics, Oliver? People, please, don't kill the medic stations - there is a Geneva Convention rule after all! All medic stations should have the same radius, their price should be balanced according to unit they "produce", PE field hospital should collect wounded soldiers as well, if it is possible to be coded. And I would really love to see a new better skin of medical station - to look more of a field hospital , but that wont happen.

i dont care who attacks my medic station. Just it shouldnt be such an easy 300 mp target^^

I would really divide it maybe into heal and one clearng station that collect wounded.

[MarKr]

Just it shouldnt be such an easy 300 mp target^^

Honestly I don't believe that it will change much. Just think about it. Right now as you say this station is a good target because it is 300MP and possible free squad for your opponent and you are more or less sure that arty will take it out. If it is cheaper, it is still a good target because if you don't destroy it, it will for sure give free squads to your opponent.

I would really divide it maybe into heal and one clearng station that collect wounded.

Who would then build the normal healing one? You have ways of healing that are moveable and thus more useful (healing trucks, ambulance, medics..). I think that this would only lead to players build the clearing stations. Maybe just one healing near HQ so when units retreat, they get healed automatically but that's about it.

[Warhawks97]

Just it shouldnt be such an easy 300 mp target^^

Honestly I don't believe that it will change much. Just think about it. Right now as you say this station is a good target because it is 300MP and possible free squad for your opponent and you are more or less sure that arty will take it out. If it is cheaper, it is still a good target because if you don't destroy it, it will for sure give free squads to your opponent.

I would really divide it maybe into heal and one clearng station that collect wounded.

Who would then build the normal healing one? You have ways of healing that are moveable and thus more useful (healing trucks, ambulance, medics..). I think that this would only lead to players build the clearing stations. Maybe just one healing near HQ so when units retreat, they get healed automatically but that's about it.

It will change much. The enemie would waste like 50 ammo for a 150 mp target and the owner of the casaulty station would lose just 150 mp, ok. Also the player could get 2 stations for 150 mp with 4 medics and if one would be destroyed the medics would go the one which remains.... it would be a huge different. I mean with WE i build them pretty often (heal for 180 mp and 10 fuel which is already fair for healing already and if i get just one squad i also have 265 mp inf squad) and with US i never build one or very seldomly (not even for healing where i rather ask my CW mate or inf doc mate) while in vcoh with US i do build the casaulty clearing stations for 150 mp pretty often again.


Yep. getting unmobile 200 mp healing station which people could build in base or retreat point is a fair price. Its cheaper than movable heal stations (which cost arround 220 and some fuel) and can maybe collect wounded while movable can reinforce just that those heal stations near retreat points would be placed usually out of range to collect wounded.


For US i would do a 200 mp heal station which maybe can also pick up wounded and a casaulty station for 150 mp which collects only wounded.
Fo CW i would do a 250 mp heal station that collect wounded as well and a 220 mp casaulty station. Cost difference to US is because the received unit is a way stronger. Also have mobile heal vehicles already.
For WE the heal station would stay with current cost and abilties (180/10). Also casaulty station for 175 mp that collects only wounded just i dont know if it would look like allied one or different.

For PE i am not quite sure. Either about cost and which squad nor about buildings. As they have cheap base territory heal upgrade and also fhq medic stations i would not introduce new buildings. Rather- my favorit option- increase cost of Heal HT to 250-270 MP and add a lock down ability such as inf doc has it which enables the truck to collect wounded. It would then create an Heavy assault squad or basic panzergrens. If panzergrens than 250 mp and if heavy assault squad then 270 mp. That would fit better for PE instead a fixed station.


To make it a bit more realistic as not every wounded would return to fight just as wolf said you could also add a kind of 15% chance that a collected wounded soldier to not "count". This guy wouldnt increase the collected number (the red bar about the medic station wouldnt increase). Together with those who are instantly dead, not collected or whatever we would have a pretty realistic relation between those who never return to fight and those who do and with increased number of medics also an increased number of wounded that can return.

[Yummy]

Or just simlply medics that can be built from a healing station should be able to collect wounded that way you can exceed the range of healing station. Furthermore you can moving out wounded during fights and if you lose, well it is not very realistic to collect wounded soldiers anymore , because your medics will be vulnerable . But the price of healing stations must be adjust according the units they produce.

[Warhawks97]

Or just simlply medics that can be built from a healing station should be able to collect wounded that way you can exceed the range of healing station. Furthermore you can moving out wounded during fights and if you lose, well it is not very realistic to collect wounded soldiers anymore , because your medics will be vulnerable . But the price of healing stations must be adjust according the units they produce.

so ou pay 200 mp for a medic or two which then just require even further micro just to collect wounded? oO

whats the prob with simply add a cheap casaulty clearing station and one 200 mp Healing station which can also collect some wounded if there are a few close to it.

[Yummy]

And you think it is fair to be able to spam cheap medic stations who will collect wounded soldeirs in enemy territory?

[Warhawks97]

And you think it is fair to be able to spam cheap medic stations who will collect wounded soldeirs in enemy territory?

some soldiers are insta dead, the enemie can kill the medics, not all get collected and i also suggested that about 18-20% of collected wounded wouldnt count.

And "enemie Territroy" ... just because its red on the map doesnt mean that there are always only enemies. It just shows that ressources are going to the enemie. Enemie territory is that where enemie units are which defend that area.

Also from my experience in vcoh enemie player do shoot the medics unless they have to fight against enemie combat units or unless they have simply no unit there. So why not? If there is no enemie it means its a neutral area where medics can collect the wounded and during fight the medics get covered by own units.

[Warhawks97]

Will the cost be dropped? this 300 mp is crazy. near front to pick up wounded its too expenive and nice easy 300 mp target but when build just to healing (for example in base or retreat point where most build it) then i dont see the point to build this 300 mp thing when inf or CW could place a healing truck there where they can also reinforce.

[MarKr]

I don't think the price will be dropped. If you're playing US Inf, nothing binds you to build these since you have mobile ambulances. If you play as other US doc, then you either decide the investment is worth it and build it or not. Or you can ask CW team mate to park an ambulance at a location you desire.
As already said in other topics - not everything is meant to be the same for every faction/doctrine so the US faction simply has expensive/less cost-effective ways of collecting wounded soldiers.

[Warhawks97]

.... or to have another pointless "thing" to waste ressources for nothing. I hope then that i can keep counting on mates help when i dont know how to heal my 50% HP infantry units and weapon crews and when i have not inf doc choosen.

Also quite crazy is that medics build in these buildings cost also 200 mp.

[Wolf]

What is pointless thing to you, may not be pointless to others.

MarKr said it exactly right.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Yup! Like as it is with me here for example, it's actually not really pointless as I do personally believe... ^^

[MarKr]

To be honest, I don't understand where the problem is...

When playing US, you have three doctrines to choose from.

Infantry: Has the greatest advantage from triage centres in form of free squads. As you said Triage are expensive an immobile and therefore an easy and nice arty target. BUT you have mobile ambulance which is actually a mobile triage centre, so no problem here.

Airborne: They can reinforce anywhere (so this feature of triage is quite useless). They have more healing options than ANY other US doctrine (82nd = health kit, HQ squad = free area-wide healing, AB medics from AHQ = free area-wide healing and, well, AB engineers can build triage ). The "free squad" ability is nice, but your main infantry is AB and when you select this doctrine, you rarely go for normal riflemen since they become kind of a burden.

Armor: You are meant to use vehicles anyway so in this doctrine triage is really a "bonus" building...

From my point of view things are fine as tehy are.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I guess I can hopefully tell u where the problem really is, as I am pretty sure about that it does actually have absolutely nothing to do with probably lacking any kind of healing abilities by the US as he is maybe claiming.. the real problem is that Hawks 'sometimes' is just blindly looking to a more flexible Allies at all possible sides! While creating some disastrous fictional senarios too in order to support his own ideas
Sorry Hawks... No offense at all I swear!! I still said only 'sometimes' which means not always ^_^

[Warhawks97]

To be honest, I don't understand where the problem is...

When playing US, you have three doctrines to choose from.

Infantry: Has the greatest advantage from triage centres in form of free squads. As you said Triage are expensive an immobile and therefore an easy and nice arty target. BUT you have mobile ambulance which is actually a mobile triage centre, so no problem here.

Airborne: They can reinforce anywhere (so this feature of triage is quite useless). They have more healing options than ANY other US doctrine (82nd = health kit, HQ squad = free area-wide healing, AB medics from AHQ = free area-wide healing and, well, AB engineers can build triage ). The "free squad" ability is nice, but your main infantry is AB and when you select this doctrine, you rarely go for normal riflemen since they become kind of a burden.

Armor: You are meant to use vehicles anyway so in this doctrine triage is really a "bonus" building...

From my point of view things are fine as tehy are.

and all that comes in late game usually. Thing is that in earlier stage and mid game there are running low HP squads arround. Not seldomly a 60% HP rifle squad after the first two engagments and then? with WE i do build very often a triage center in earlier stage (sometimes before i get my second building) although when i know that i get a stormtrooper HT later in the game which also heals (and i almost only play BK doc with WE). And even armor doc has sometimes low HP soldiers. Engineers, early game rifles (some using rangers), snipers and others.

Medics and other must be activated manually (increased micro). So its mainly to have a heal thing that automatically heals there where units do reinforce retreat to and where they reinforce so that you can send them back to fight quickly without searching the medic, activate the ability just to realize that you just forgot two units to heal which were still reinforcing to that point. Using medics mean to get as many squads as possible together at the same time to heal as many as possible at the same time as using the heal ability of medics manually each time a squad retreats to them makes things twice as complicated as possible. I sometimes see AB players in earlier stage before HQ squad is fielded which retreat all 101st at the same time to AB HQ where they have medics for 150 mp deployed trying to heal all squads at the same time with medic ability and then an arty strike (Or off map firestorm) strikes the nicely blobbed units which all had to stay together to get healed. A triage center would simply heal each squad separately when they reteat to them and thus a player would send some back to reinforce/heal area while keep fighting with other units and when the others are ready to fight he can send them back to front and the others back to reinforce/heal area.

There are players out there which dont only create a huge inf blobb, attack with them, retreat all at the same time and heal all at the same time just to repeat it. I often have units back to recover while keep fighthing with others (already before any special heal units are deployed) and i dont have much time to check when the best moment is to activate any heal ability to heal as many as possible at once. Thats what i like on RAF and BK doc. I retreat my units to a point where they heal automatically. I really liked it when wolf made the Stormtooper HT healing as auto feature and nothing which need to be activated.


I am also not only talking about the US one. Brits and US pay 300 mp. Just brits can get quite early the med truck but still early game healing is expensive.

I would also not mind to remove fuel cost from WE Triage center (which in my opinion dont make sense either)