RAF gliders

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Tony_Frost
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RAF gliders

Postby Tony_Frost » 13 Dec 2014, 20:59

Hello!
I suggest to make RAF inf/tech gliders comes on the battlefield whithout prepared commandos/tetrarchs, also to make that gliders cheaper,
from 560/450 mp to 150-200 mp. That changes will prevent exceeding commandos limit, also allows player to removing rallypoint and production whithout waisting resources for unnecessary units.
Last edited by Tony_Frost on 14 Dec 2014, 13:29, edited 2 times in total.

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BffWithDEATH
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby BffWithDEATH » 13 Dec 2014, 21:24

I actually like this idea because you often loose the HQ glider then it is expensive to get another and it shouldnt really be droped right into the front of the action.

Another nice feature would be to allow the CW captain to set a ralley point
( like every single other factions command officer can )
and have that rally point affect both regular and commando infantry
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Warhawks97
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby Warhawks97 » 13 Dec 2014, 22:17

BffWithDEATH wrote:I actually like this idea because you often loose the HQ glider then it is expensive to get another and it shouldnt really be droped right into the front of the action.

Another nice feature would be to allow the CW captain to set a ralley point
( like every single other factions command officer can )
and have that rally point affect both regular and commando infantry



Which captain? the normal one? and what if you drop the glider behind enemie lines for operations there? We had that problem with AB as well and thats why we made the hq as retreat point.


About the Glider, well, would be nice to have the option to drop one without units in order to change retreat point without being forced to build another commando unit. Also it would avoid exceeding unit limit of sten commandos.

Wake
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby Wake » 13 Dec 2014, 22:56

Well, the problem with this is that having 6 guys with fully automatic weapons pop out of thin air and being able to do so right next to the enemy is a pretty good weapon. Seriously, if the glider lands correctly right next to an axis squad that just has kar 98's, they are toast.

But it is a big problem that every time the original glider gets destroyed, a new one has to be called in, which means calling in an entire new squad for the full price of 560 MP. Keep in mind that the commandos can be built from an HQ truck for 500 MP. So the glider seemingly costs 60 MP. It would be great to be able to get that glider without having to pay for the commando squad.

I would suggest adding a cheaper glider that costs 60 MP into the ability for RAF, however that isn't possible because the ability bar is full for RAF because of all their air strikes. So how about letting the standard British lieutenant or captain get another special ability if the player is RAF, that lets them call in an empty commando glider. Either this, or, if it's possible, let sappers build an empty commando glider.

This is needed, as there are 7 unique commando units that can only be built from the glider.
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BffWithDEATH
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby BffWithDEATH » 14 Dec 2014, 00:47

For commandos:
1) replace sten commando glider with a commando HQ glider for 60mp
2) revert the commando smokescreen back to being useful without it i see no real benefit in building Commandos who are expensive and cannot get in close even against k98's and you cant reform commandos from a triage,
when Rifle sections have more flexibility and can reform at triage..
3) increase the build speed for commando captain. It is quite rediculous that he seems to produce slower than a KT...
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Warhawks97
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby Warhawks97 » 14 Dec 2014, 00:50

maybe not removing entirely but when two sten commandos are on the field the one with commandos cant be called in again. Leutnant, captain and commando captain should be able to call in an empty commando glider for 60 MP.

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BffWithDEATH
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby BffWithDEATH » 14 Dec 2014, 00:51

Warhawks97 wrote:maybe not removing entirely but when two sten commandos are on the field the one with commandos cant be called in again. Leutnant, captain and commando captain should be able to call in an empty commando glider for 60 MP.


Yeah, that is probably a better idea
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V13dweller
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby V13dweller » 14 Dec 2014, 05:44

I think the Luftwaffe doctrine should be improved at this rate, they have no field HQ, no Officer of their own, they are just regular troops, you only get two combat squads (two of each) While the US can have many different types of paratroopers, RAF can have two SAS Squads, and many commando squads.

But it appears suggesting buff for Axis is a sin, so I bet my idea will be shot down instantly

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BffWithDEATH
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby BffWithDEATH » 14 Dec 2014, 07:30

V13dweller wrote:I think the Luftwaffe doctrine should be improved at this rate, they have no field HQ, no Officer of their own, they are just regular troops, you only get two combat squads (two of each) While the US can have many different types of paratroopers, RAF can have two SAS Squads, and many commando squads.

But it appears suggesting buff for Axis is a sin, so I bet my idea will be shot down instantly


The biggest problem in the game is that the allies lack the flexibility that axis have.
When you play allies it's always paper, scissors or rock,
but every axis doc has paper, scissors and rock.

I'm all for reworking and changing the way the luft air units work in game.

But before even further flexibility of choices is added to the axis, the allies need to be brought to that same standard or flexibility in choices.
and the unit's performance for existing units need's to be fixed for both allies and axis.
In it's current state BKmod is very messy and unpolished with balance issues sitting on every corner.

The units themselves though cannot be balanced properly ever unless the doctrines are balanced properly for both sides.
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QWERTYAndreas
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby QWERTYAndreas » 14 Dec 2014, 09:41

V13dweller wrote:I think the Luftwaffe doctrine should be improved at this rate, they have no field HQ, no Officer of their own, they are just regular troops, you only get two combat squads (two of each) While the US can have many different types of paratroopers, RAF can have two SAS Squads, and many commando squads.

But it appears suggesting buff for Axis is a sin, so I bet my idea will be shot down instantly


It migth be because the luftwaffe inf have a PzSchrek or MG34 + KCH genes. And panther. And arty. And butterflybombs. And i could go on.
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Wolf
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby Wolf » 14 Dec 2014, 11:51

You can't be serious, that you want everywhere droppable, reinforce, heal and build station for 60 MP. Nope. If anything it woukld replace original glider with +- the same cost atleast.
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HaryPL
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby HaryPL » 14 Dec 2014, 12:19

Additionaly, Glider can be exploited to crush enemy weapon teams. A bit too good deal for 60MP lol.
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V13dweller
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby V13dweller » 14 Dec 2014, 13:12

Wolf wrote:You can't be serious, that you want everywhere droppable, reinforce, heal and build station for 60 MP. Nope. If anything it woukld replace original glider with +- the same cost atleast.


I was about to say! :D

This thing would be an on-demand anti-ambush weapon.

Tony_Frost
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby Tony_Frost » 14 Dec 2014, 13:31

Wolf wrote:You can't be serious, that you want everywhere droppable, reinforce, heal and build station for 60 MP. Nope. If anything it woukld replace original glider with +- the same cost atleast.


Thats why i suggest 150-200 mp, ok maybe 200-250, but not "fair" 60 mp.

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V13dweller
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby V13dweller » 14 Dec 2014, 13:40

The Triage Centre costs 300 MP, doesn't reinforce or produce units, so a price near the current is fine.

The Glider creates units, heals them and reinforces them, it also drops from the sky very conveniently.

Tony_Frost
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby Tony_Frost » 14 Dec 2014, 13:57

V13dweller wrote:The Triage Centre costs 300 MP, doesn't reinforce or produce units, so a price near the current is fine.

The Glider creates units, heals them and reinforces them, it also drops from the sky very conveniently.


And we,ve got (or had got on the old forum) a suggegstion to lower that unreasonably price.
200 mp maybe looking too cheap, but thats infantry-oriented doctrine.
Stormtroopers halftrack had healing for 50 mp but now its free because of that.

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Warhawks97
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby Warhawks97 » 14 Dec 2014, 14:22

OK. Maybe 60 is a way too cheap. I havent thought about weapon crew crushing. 250 mp empty dropp called by leutnants or captains or 560 with sten inside and global. But only one commando glider available. The global one cant be called in when two sten squads are fielded already.


Comparing it with luftwaffe is a bad idea. Luftwaffe is a good allround doc (like most axis doc= and their units are powerfull right when they are coming in unlike commandos. They have good weapons in all squads by default and working very well on every distance (except gebirgs at point blank), esspecially the reg 5. They also can do some sabotage so even if you have to give up the fight behind enemie lines you still can destroy some points. Furthermore the doc has good Multipurpose SD2 bombs/mines dropping from heaven and powerfull long range 88 which can be also used as arty with VT. Furthermore Nebelwerfer arty and if neccessary you can support them right at the beginning with marders that dont need any CP. In late game even Panther support which are capable to crack every allied tank and more than enough against shermans. When it comes to larger battles with many vehicles and tanks involved the Henschel can clear the path as support.

Commandos have neither squads with mixed anti inf/anti tank equipment unless that are picked up weapons and no real arty. Furthermore no Para dropp except SAS which are comming later and no real battle tank.


about comparing gliders with triage center i just opend a topic about it. Triage centers are overpirced and collecting woundeds should be easier and more effective or cost effective. For healing most factions have cheaper ways to do that. CW and PE has mobile trucks, PE HQ upgrade, Inf doc these trucks, RAF glider and BK doc the stormtooper halftrack. There should be a cheap Medic station for like 200 mp for healing and a cheaper thing for collecting woundeds. In BK 99% of all wounded soldiers are doomed to die which is silly and not really realistic.

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Wolf
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby Wolf » 14 Dec 2014, 14:46

Well heavily wounded soldiers are also not reformed into brand new squad realistically. I wouldn't put realism into this...
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Warhawks97
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby Warhawks97 » 14 Dec 2014, 16:39

Wolf wrote:Well heavily wounded soldiers are also not reformed into brand new squad realistically. I wouldn't put realism into this...


viewtopic.php?f=15&t=76&view=unread#unread

Wake
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby Wake » 14 Dec 2014, 17:25

Well, I based my original suggestion of an empty glider costing 60 MP on the fact that right now, the commando glider with a squad inside costs 560 MP, and the same commandos can be built from the Field Support Truck for 500 MP. So 560-500 = 60 MP.

But you all are right, 60 MP is incredibly cheap. Just make it around the same cost of the regular HQ glider that is called in by lieutenants and captains that builds normal British units.

On a related note, why is the 6 pounder AT gun only able to be built from the HQ glider? I think right now it is not in the Field Support Truck because that already has a 17 pounder. But the 17 pounder requires a captain to be built. So, either make the 6 pounder buildable from the Field Truck without the need for a captain OR make the 6 pounder buildable from the HQ truck, but after a Field Support Truck has been built, just like the Recce.
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Warhawks97
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Re: RAF gliders

Postby Warhawks97 » 14 Dec 2014, 18:47

Wake wrote:On a related note, why is the 6 pounder AT gun only able to be built from the HQ glider? I think right now it is not in the Field Support Truck because that already has a 17 pounder. But the 17 pounder requires a captain to be built. So, either make the 6 pounder buildable from the Field Truck without the need for a captain OR make the 6 pounder buildable from the HQ truck, but after a Field Support Truck has been built, just like the Recce.



Very good question!

I´ve never got an answer.

Same btw for US inf doc 75 mm pack Howitzer. It also needs FHQ, cost then 400 mp and 25 ammo and also requires Supply yard!

Its often easier to unlock and build a 105 mm howitzer which needs no upgrades than to get that small 75 mm Howitzer.


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