Stormtroopers evasive manevures

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Well, last week i played as BK doc really a lot ( and also faced it frequently ) and came to conclusion that this invisible nazis are sooooo op, stroms are good infatry itself but this ability gives way too many advantages:

1) First of all, squad with 5 stg and mg34 which stood up from invisible mod infront of your units is instantly whiping out all your troops faster than you can say "oh shit",
2) It makes your enemy to be tactically blind, even if he has well placed recons he cant plan a succesfull atack with infantry cause invisible storms are even more deadly than MG42.
3) Brits cant do a step when storms lies everywhere, cause only recon unit is Recce, as soon as you lost it - you are blind.
4) Paks and emplacements turning into a naked man in the water with shark nearby as soon as recon in front of them is dead.
5) Its sinply funny how super invisible nazis can appear from nowhere, kill half of army, recieve vet 3 and retreat.
6) Storms reciving vet lvl faster than any inf in game ( 4 kills of brit rifle section and you got vet 1 already ) and apparantly i dont see any other vet 5 inf squads as often as storms.

And i have a bunch of solutions for this, choose any you like:

1) Limit this ability only to officer team and sabotage squad.
2) All infatnry units should detect crawling storms from the same range as recons do.
3) Ability will be available only after vet training unlock in command tree.
4) Ability will be available only after reciving vet 3.
5) Ability removed - storms getting a much longer sprint ability than any other inf units.
6) Ability removed, smoke added.

Why it even exist in game in that way actually? You removed invisible smoke from commando and reason was unrealistically, invisible nazis crawling on a flat empty road doesnt making more sense or im wrong?

[Wolf]

Main difference was that they were able to fire from the smoke, without ability of being attacked. Storms can't fire while crawling.

I am not against 3) or 4) solution, I'd prefer 3). If we would continue with removing abilities, we can lose unique parts of the mod. Storms also can't crawl with upgraded AT weapon (worth mentioning imo).

[Krieger Blitzer]

Sukin, I am really Sorry... But really.. I would never agree any solution! Just NO.
NO to restricting this ability for the Storms!! It's everything about them even.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Again; NOOO. ^^

Commandos are good with Gliders. The Smoke ability also greatly reduces the suppression at them currently!

[Wolf]

Again; NOOO. ^^

Commandos are good with Gliders. The Smoke ability also greatly reduces the suppression at them currently!

I wouldn't really compare suppression reduction with invisible moving ... or well, should I swap it ? :p

[Warhawks97]

yeah. I agree with sukin. First of all i dont see any other inf squad having so often vet 5 (esspecially leader squad). You crawl to an enemie unit, (like spawn), use mortar ability from ambsuh! and BAM, two vets with leader squad. Then unlock vet 1 tree and BAM, leader squad is vet 3. Ive got vet 5 leader squad in one assault. Mortar, attack, vet unlock. And when leader squad is vet 5 and others vet 2 or 3 nothing can stop them, except HE shermans. Finally the massive HP those units have. And then their reinforce cost are pretty low (the assault squad only) and cheaper to reinforce as commandos or infiltration rangers.

So i frequently get up to 100 kills with storm squads.

And this invisible crawling stuff is very deadly to brits for mentioned reason. Allied players keep prodcuing recces and M20 just to be prepared for them. But once its dead you have no eyes as brits. Finally each brits unit cost more than 300 MP. So you just need to appear next to a sapper squad and 315 MP are gone and brits have no more repair options. And before they can do so they need stuff first to detect those invisible crawling units.


Besdie that i found abug i think.
1. When you actiavte evasive maneuver and adding then schreck then you can crawl to the enemie and popping up with a schreck!


well, my suggestion is that
Only leader and demoltion squad can crawl.
Also i think that mortar strike should only be possible when not crawling. I dont know but ive killed uncountless many infantry armies with that. I had leader squad and reccon in position. Then ive attacked a bit forcing several infantry units to retreat (not seldomly a few ranger squads but alos very expensive commando units) and then using that off map on retreat point just when enemie returned to it. That way i sometimes made 20 inf kills with a single off map strike killing all the important inf squads at once on their retreat point. But idk how you think about it.

@Tiger.... its all about them? lol.... its one deadly side, yes. Very good vs brits in 2 vs 2. But when enemies has lots of vehicles and armor you can also use them with schrecks. I have often only a leader squad invisible in a forward position and then 2 assault squads with schrecks. Then i start assault when they passed my leader squad i activate this one as well using this heroic charge ability + the general boost (of high vet leader sqaud) and sprint. That way you can deal epic massive damage against everything just by using stgs and schrecks combined with leader squad boost. AA tanks are then quite easily overruned as well, emplacments destroyed and so on.

So storms are not all about this ability, its just one deadly side of many they have. Unlike commando squad they can even upgrade schrecks if neccessary.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Main difference was that they were able to fire from the smoke, without ability of being attacked. Storms can't fire while crawling.

I am not against 3) or 4) solution, I'd prefer 3). If we would continue with removing abilities, we can lose unique parts of the mod. Storms also can't crawl with upgraded AT weapon (worth mentioning imo).

I also dont like any ability removements, thats why i gave many solutions:). Ye, third one fits good for me also, so player will have choice, to concentrate on inf (unlock truck, assault ability, evasive manevures ability, vet training) or focus on armor.

@Hawks
With mortar ability im fine actually, BK have no other off map or powerfull arty, sometimes its an only option to take out big mortar for example.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I wouldn't really compare suppression reduction with invisible moving ... or well, should I swap it ? :p

I suggested for the AB spotters to have a crawling ability as well.

I wouldn't even mind if the Commandos Smoke ability causes any kind of an invisibility to them only for a short period of time.. but not for them then to be still able to fire at the enemies without a possibility to attack or shoot them back! o.O

@Hawks;
U get high kills using Storms.. but this definitely doesn't mean u r the winner! U never can win just with Storms killing some inf. Sometimes the Blitz doc is surely lacking a lot of other things while using only the Storms!!

U can do this with the Schreck only a once. So it's not a bug neither an issue I think!

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Terence have just suggested to let inf units to detect crawling storms from at least 5 meters, not like now when you notice them only after steping on their heads.

[Krieger Blitzer]

IDK. I would rather not to just touch it... Fine as it is currently!

[Warhawks97]

@Hawks;
U get high kills using Storms.. but this definitely doesn't mean u r the winner! U never can win just with Storms killing some inf. Sometimes the Blitz doc is surely lacking a lot of other things while using only the Storms!!

100 kills on leader squad, vet 5..... in 90% of all occassions i win. Only when a mate is super noob it might be possible to lose, but only then. And what do i lack with BK doc? oO

[Krieger Blitzer]

Imagine using only Storms against the Armor doctrine for example and u will then pretty well know what u lack..

I mean that the Storms are surely a good anti inf weapon, but not anyhow overall a good unit! The solution number 3 would be the best however that yet I don't think any changes are needed over here...

Maybe just the Sten Commandos can get a crawling ability?

[Warhawks97]

Imagine using only Storms against the Armor doctrine for example and u will then pretty well know what u lack..

I mean that the Storms are surely a good anti inf weapon, but not anyhow overall a good unit! The solution number 3 would be the best however that yet I don't think any changes are needed over here...

Maybe just the Sten Commandos can get a crawling ability?

storms+tank IV.... schreck + tanks is still good. anyway.



not more of that crawling stuff pls, not to commandos or anything else.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Alright... Demo Storms, and the Command Storms should be always able to crawl.

The normal Storms and the Suppression Storms should be still able to hide when in cover but can't crawl without the veterancy training item unlocked!

But then maybe they should be able to crawl even when the Schreck is equipped..

[ShadowIchigo]

Terence have just suggested to let inf units to detect crawling storms from at least 5 meters, not like now when you notice them only after steping on their heads.

out of all of them i think this is the best one.. makes the most sense and this way the ability can be retained.. just think of it a solder goes 5 meters to u yet ur still invisible to them?? its bullshit..

@warhawks and anyone else looking
now no one is gonna tell me that im not having enough skill to ever get over 50 or so kills with a commando squad... bc guess what? the only times i ever get to that point is with stolen axis weapons.. mg34 -42s, stgs, and even frigin mp40s lmao...

countless times i had storms popping up out of nowhere and i cant even react bc i lose my squad in an instant.I do use my captains and leuts with my inf but exp players usually concentrate on my officers with snipers and other inf so it becomes an instant target. When theat happens.. bam! those invisible nazis pop up from flanking sides that my officer didnt detect and im shredded, and the mortar ability idk i like that they have a counter to arty in a way but its so easy to use it when its almost impossible to detect these invisible inf. However i think that all inf being able to detect them will help with that.
Even commandos ambush doesnt really work as well as storms' evasive manevure ability.

[Krieger Blitzer]

out of all of them i think this is the best one.. makes the most sense and this way the ability can be retained.. just think of it a solder goes 5 meters to u yet ur still invisible to them?? its bullshit..

But I am afraid this is nothing only about the Storms... Every hiding or crawling soldier is actually invisible the same way unless if there was a recon or a scouting unit passing already 5 meters beside!

[Krieger Blitzer]

I mean that such a change would be affecting all the other hiding or crawling units, and not only the Storms!!
Causing generally less importance to the Bikes or the Jeeps I guess.. so I am simply against it...

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

out of all of them i think this is the best one.. makes the most sense and this way the ability can be retained.. just think of it a solder goes 5 meters to u yet ur still invisible to them?? its bullshit..

But I am afraid this is nothing only about the Storms... Every hiding or crawling soldier is actually invisible the same way unless if there was a recon or a scouting unit passing already 5 meters beside!

Do recon have 6 Stg 44 power?

[Krieger Blitzer]

Excuse me? I guess u didn't get what I mean... I said that if we manage to allow any crossing inf units to automatically detect the crawling Storms from further distances.. this won't only affect the Storms, but actually all the other hiding or crawling units! Which is going to make it easier to detect most of the invisible snipers and spotters just with normal inf units etc; as that this could cause a less tactical need generally for Jeeps or Bikes on the other hand being all of a less value as well.
I know it's a bit an arcade stuff to see that they are still invisible although u r almost stepping on their head, however that it's still a game and actually u can yet detect them easier using spotters or by any reconnaissance unit such as Recces or Jeeps.

To top it all off... I already said that the crawling ability should be available only after the veterancy training item is unlocked, plz read above what I already wrote regarding this!

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Im sure that it can be tuned only for storms.

[Krieger Blitzer]

But why for this to be exclusively done only for the Storms??? If it's an arcade BS, as Shadow mentioned.. then it's for all the same! And SO; it shouldn't be done... As I believe it would be harming the game concept this way.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

At least because its easier to detect 6 men than 1 man, isnt it?

[Krieger Blitzer]

That's a good logic but still.. it's currently like this way already btw! ^^ Because moving a single man is surely easier than moving 6 of them... As they occupy more area

I mean that when any of those 6 men is detected, then the whole squad is now seen by the enemy.
When a single man is suppressed, then all the rest soldiers of the same squad are also suppressed!!

[ShadowIchigo]

out of all of them i think this is the best one.. makes the most sense and this way the ability can be retained.. just think of it a solder goes 5 meters to u yet ur still invisible to them?? its bullshit..

But I am afraid this is nothing only about the Storms... Every hiding or crawling soldier is actually invisible the same way unless if there was a recon or a scouting unit passing already 5 meters beside!

Maybe.. but i dont see why they cannot make a duplicate of this ability and tune with it.. but then again idk how easily managable this game engine is. So it might be that even duplication wont work.. but that ultimarely depnds on the limitations of the game coding and what wolf n mark can work with. But i still dont like the tech tree idea either.. second best answer is sabos and leaders, thirdly would be vet 3 instead of tech.. these are my views. You like em you dont either its not gonna decide what will ultimately happen.

P.s. this view isnt just about realisticness either, its about balancing the game. Balnce first realism second.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Balnce first realism second.

That's exactly why I confirmed above that surely it might be somehow an arcade BS to see that they are still invisible although that the enemy soldiers are not being anyhow too far away from them by almost stepping on their heads!
But it's now fulfilling the game concept... ^^

However that u could still spot them more 'realistically' using Jeeps or recons.