Stormtroopers evasive manevures

[Butterkeks]

lol... i thought everybody knows that. You can also go into crawl mode, click the schreck upgrade and wait untill they have got them.... then you can also crawl with schreck one time. So one free schreck crawl shot.

Here that's what I exactly said my dear.. which is fine btw...

What... Just... What?!
Dude...

You always cry on how things are doomed if it's nerfed, on the other hand you state BS like: Oooh Storms can get a Schreck upgrade while crawling and keep crawling! This is exactly what is needed!

I know exactly, if Rangers were also able to do that, you were the first one to rant about it here. Now even Cyber told you that the evasive manevures need that nerf. And still you think you know it better than nearly half the community atm. ?

[Krieger Blitzer]

........................ ???
Only god knows from where u suddenly came now dude, but I bet people like u always come from nowhere actually!!!

[Butterkeks]

Exactly like Storms with evasive manevures.^^

[6thAirborneDivision]

I am not in the mood for reading all the stuff; can someone, maybe even a DEV, summarize what the current attitude is? The discussion should have made clear that it is more than a serious problem ...

[Butterkeks]

The same as on page 2...

[Krieger Blitzer]

Delaying it means that other players might have better/trained/cheaper units then, so it actually does change a lot.

We dont need proof, as I am almost sure that the crawling ability is tied to non present schreck upgrade, then of course, anything taken will not disallow it.

3) Is planned.

As u have just heard it several times, it's more likely going to be delayed. But how exactly? Nothing yet seem to be confirmed or known...
So just wait

[Cyberzombie]

On the last page wolf said that 3) is planned.

3) Ability will be available only after vet training unlock in command tree.

[6thAirborneDivision]

Thank you. Sad to hear that.

[ShadowIchigo]

Thank you. Sad to hear that.

Man thats bs! Im sad and very disappointed with this favored dicision too.. like you guys keep saying it is only delaying the problem... sure within that delay you may have a little just a little more time to prepare.. but then again what can you do even in that timezone? Get two recons.. ok.. i sacrifice one for scouting around in the back lines , acting as a failsafe. Get a jeep in additon.. alright great, now i just have to constantly micro this guy all aroubd my back lines hopinh i can continuously keep up with the frontline battle going on (yes i know there is shift click). Finally, what about my push? Soo i finally see an opening in my push but i think the time has cone where my bk opponent has more than enough cps for crawl ability, so i sent a jeep (instant shot from pak).. fail. I sent recon up, but whats this??? It gets sniped bc enemy recon spotted me and is protected by sniper (best tactic btw ). So i feel like the area is safe so i attack.. den den den SUPRISE MOTHAHFUCKAH! BAM! whole squad instantly dead from same stealth tactic.. sure maybe i shuda waited to take out that enemy recon.. but then i risk losing my great opportunity of attack.. there can be smarter decisions to this approach i am well aware of that... but no matter what it is usually the same result. An plua using those smarter decisions takes ur time away from the main battle with ur allies and trying to prepare ur own defence bc of these Crysis Suit Invisonazis is really straining. What about situations when under high pressure? An ostwind comes in but u got no time to really react and try to coubter or buy time with ur few at inf. But no there is an ultimate anti inf defense.. he ostwind and invisonazis.. lets not forget how ridiculous it is for brits to counter.. and expensive! Like 6th said, leuts are cheap.. thats great!! But they are such an easily killed target esp if you have to use then soo offensively.. are they not supposed to act as an officer and support unit for ur inf? Buyt safetly right? They cannot camo or crawl.. they are such a vulnerable peice when used offensively. And recces are just so expensive. They can be one shotted with just about anything, very luckily will sometimes shrek miss or just damage main gun (but thats usually on ly with over rep). Idk man im goin on a rant..


Wolf, ill accept that we have to atleast try the patch first, then we can have the right to be further upset if problem still persists.. ok i understand that. But these community patches can take long time. I mean you guys are busy too and we all have lives. So if the problem does persist and hopefully u finally decide to go with what most of us are suggesting, how lobg wud it take for the next patch?? You see why i am a bit upset? Time is the most valuable resource in all of existence, bc we physically, are not infinite beings, only finite. And the way the popularity of the mod has been going.. there may not wven be a bk to play when u do finally release that hypothetical 2nd patch. Its just that things that can be so obvious sometimes are overmissed.. for example, you still want to keep the booby trap delay the same even tho there is a price tag on them now (which i am happy for), but the price tag doesnt cange anything, just like a delay for evasive manuevers doesnt really change that much. The fact is that the booby trap can be wasted bc the delay is still the same and people who know how to avoid booby trap damage will still abuse it. Should i explain to everyone on the forum how to avoid booby traps? Maybe that can expediate the process? Maybe it will make booby traps useless.. bc they can just be avoided so easily. I dont meant to threaten i just mean to open ur eyes, or give you solid proof if i did reveal to every single player here how to aboid them. I will end by saying that, regardless, i am very appreciate to even have a modding dev team still trying. I just wanted to show why it upsets me. Thank you.

[Krieger Blitzer]

When the ability is delayed to the veterancy training unlock... Actually what u aren't aware of is that it's then more like to be considered as a total remove!

Because of that before u reach this meant time until this item is hopefully in use.. most of ur Storms would have upgraded their Schrecks already ^^

[Cyberzombie]

Well then don't give all of them schrecks? It was anyway a bug that you could crawl once with a schreck...

And no this is not considered as a total removal! Have you ever played RAF? I guess not. There are so many vet unlocks needed in order to make those units nayhow usefull.

[ShadowIchigo]

#1

A smart bk player wouldn't diminish the crawl advantage they have.. so why not just support ur at inf with ur storms, maybe have one storm with shrek, but still others with crawl.

#2 can you please explain to me why it is more of a removal? In detail and try to make sense your english can be a bit off no offense. When explaining also please consider "#1" into your response.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Well, as a Blitz doc player... I could say that no one would ever dare to pay 8 CPs just in order to crawl at the end while completely sticking on his AT teams and AT guns supported with Storms against the Armor doc for example! As he would have no trades.. no Tigers or mass productions.

His AT teams won't be enough for sure; that's why u need 4 Grens at least each one having a Schreck upgraded on the other hand as whenever u play Terror!

[Cyberzombie]

Well, as a Blitz doc player... I could say that it id definetively worth to pay so many CPs for storms even without the upcoming change. Storms are really strong and with that you get vet1 storms immediately and most of the time i already have vet 2 or 3 so i get even a higher vet for "free". And if you'd know how poweerfull they can be YOU would't dare to say that noone would pay so much CPs!
And when playing against armor doc it is common knowledge that you should not just use inf but instead combine them with tanks. But of course you expect to win only with storms against armor doc...
Shadow what would you say as an dedicated RAF player if I ask you why you don´t only rely on your inf against Blitz or terror doc? Totally bullshit to build other tanks to support your troops right?

[ShadowIchigo]

Well, as a Blitz doc player... I could say that no one would ever dare to pay 8 CPs just in order to crawl at the end while completely sticking on his AT teams and AT guns supported with Storms against the Armor doc! As he would have no trades.. no Tigers or mass productions.

but tiger this is just one doc they have to fear..
and i understand that if you want to make a push against armor u need panthers and tigers. but thats no to say u can go straight for vet upgrade and still wreak havoc (all the while gaining even more cps, and VET! from doing so), yet still have a pretty stable defense against armor doc.. i dont like to focus on doctrine balance in a 1v1 approach but sometimes it does have to be done. but still even in this 1v1 approach against armor they are still capable, the biggest threat paks have are recons and calliope, but u can get many paks and spread them out so far. so why cant one play a little defensively in exchange for an fiercely strong offensive late game?

edit

Well, as a Blitz doc player... I could say that it id definetively worth to pay so many CPs for storms even without the upcoming change. Storms are really strong and with that you get vet1 storms immediately and most of the time i already have vet 2 or 3 so i get even a higher vet for "free". And if you'd know how poweerfull they can be YOU would't dare to say that noone would pay so much CPs!
And when playing against armor doc it is common knowledge that you should not just use inf but instead combine them with tanks. But of course you expect to win only with storms against armor doc...
Shadow what would you say as an dedicated RAF player if I ask you why you don´t only rely on your inf against Blitz or terror doc? Totally bullshit to build other tanks to support your troops right?

sorry cyber i just saw this haha.

but yea even when i play bk doc (which is my fav axis doc as well)
i still sometimes even go for vet upgrade, bc they become nearly invincible, so i dont even rely on heavy tanks for my powerful push so much. you can incorporate so much with bk doc for anti tank use, bc they have so much at their disposal.

in response to ur raf statement: HAAA i agree its just total bullshit to rely on armor support (sarcasm) but seriously even how lovely raf can be played with inf, armor support is needed with this doc. but theres one thing i would argue against, raf inf are not as powerful compare to bk inf to go toe to toe with enemy armor and anti inf. they would get shredded twice as easily compared to bk inf. i go toe to toe with armor using just my bk inf sometimes, but with raf it is a WAY more riskier approach. another reason is bc raf inf are harder to vet even with vet upgrades, they still have trouble killing axis elites, bc by the time they are upgrades, axis units already have vet 4 or 5. even vet 3 raf inf for instance against vet 2 luft or vet one luft, i always notice i have huge disadvantage (and trust me i am using combo of units, snipers, einfield and stens).

[Krieger Blitzer]

If not mistaken, Shadow doesn't need any tanks actually. A Typhoon would be always there to help for countering both the enemy inf and tanks... Not saying he wouldn't need anything besides that.. but it helps much for sure!

U tell me to combine them with tanks; but I don't have enough points to get tanks then!! O_O

Paks are getting more expensive, u also have to keep this in mind.

[Cyberzombie]

Then you are wrong. I always see m10s, some crusaders and in the last games a lot cromwells
Typhoon is not always reliable since you can dodge it if you see the plane coming early enough or simply shoot it down since 3 out of 6 axis docs have excellent AA. And furthermore Typhoons are expensive.

You can always build Stugs, only 2 CPs for tank IV... And don't tell me it's impossible since I#m always doning so and it definetively works. And btw why don't you simply adapt? If you know your enemy has armor then go for tanks (crawling isn't needed here anyway), if more inf orientated go for vet unlock (only basic tanks needed like Stugs or Ostwind). Simply as that

[ShadowIchigo]

If not mistaken, Shadow doesn't need any tanks actually. A Typhoon would be always there to help for countering both the enemy inf and tanks... Not saying he wouldn't need anything besides that.. but it helps much for sure!

U tell me to combine them with tanks; but I don't have enough points to get tanks then!! O_O

Paks are getting more expensive, u also have to keep this in mind.

tiger you are rwrong that i rely on typhoon, very wrong. bc like cyber said it can be easily outmanueverred or countered. plus Majority of the time i only use typhoon to help teammates and targetting high profile targets (kt, tiger ace, arty, even flaks, not ostwin or pnz 4). so what cyber mentioned about a lot of cromwells.. i believe he was talking about our recent game we had where i used cromwell to support my advance, was it on cherbourg?? i forget.

btw! read that post cyber and tiger i just edited it the one where i was ask what i wud do as raf. i replied to that question.

[Cyberzombie]

Yes it was on Cherbourg.
RAF troops should be able to upgrade zooks since they can't advance on Oswtinds without plane or tank support.

[ShadowIchigo]

i honestly think that should be implemented since sas are worthless shit.. they die so easily, and tigewr u always complain about combat engineers, yes they have high damage atclose range but they have paper thin health.. sas i feel are same way.. expensive unit for no reason, i would sooo love to use them as behindenemy lines airbourne ops but never do so bc they are so frigin weak they would die so fast and bam 650 mp wasted.. accomplishing nothing. thats another thing with brits tho, they have no good at besides piats. sure piats are good... sometimes... but brits in ww2 didnt use just piats ffs. they had alot of zookas at their disposal. i think commando sten squad with zooka upgrade is wonder idea. although id still rather have a shreck ofc and i also suggested giving sas squad satchel charges instead of demo, and commando inf reg nades in addition to gammon bc they are supposed to be good in urban situations but are defenseless bc they have have no regular nades.

p.s. cyber ily bro

[Butterkeks]

Yeah, I often used to play RAF and it worked quite well...
Lee Enfields can deal a lot of damage, but regarding AT you can only rely on 17pdr.

I recently had a game in which SAS failed to kill a Puma that was standing 10 meters away... Wow, such an elite inf. Never saw Storms miss a Recce with their schreck.

You can always build Stugs, only 2 CPs for tank IV... And don't tell me it's impossible since I#m always doning so and it definetively works. And btw why don't you simply adapt? If you know your enemy has armor then go for tanks (crawling isn't needed here anyway), if more inf orientated go for vet unlock (only basic tanks needed like Stugs or Ostwind). Simply as that

That's the problem with most Axis players. They are not used to adapt their strategy according to their enemies. They spend their CP in a certain way and won't ever change the order. So that's why it's so hard to understand for some people that they don't have to get the evasive manevure first before unlocking tanks.

Man thats bs! Im sad and very disappointed with this favored dicision too.. like you guys keep saying it is only delaying the problem... sure within that delay you may have a little just a little more time to prepare.. but then again what can you do even in that timezone? Get two recons.. ok.. i sacrifice one for scouting around in the back lines , acting as a failsafe. Get a jeep in additon.. alright great, now i just have to constantly micro this guy all aroubd my back lines hopinh i can continuously keep up with the frontline battle going on (yes i know there is shift click). Finally, what about my push? Soo i finally see an opening in my push but i think the time has cone where my bk opponent has more than enough cps for crawl ability, so i sent a jeep (instant shot from pak).. fail. I sent recon up, but whats this??? It gets sniped bc enemy recon spotted me and is protected by sniper (best tactic btw ). So i feel like the area is safe so i attack.. den den den SUPRISE MOTHAHFUCKAH! BAM! whole squad instantly dead from same stealth tactic.. sure maybe i shuda waited to take out that enemy recon.. but then i risk losing my great opportunity of attack.. there can be smarter decisions to this approach i am well aware of that... but no matter what it is usually the same result. An plua using those smarter decisions takes ur time away from the main battle with ur allies and trying to prepare ur own defence bc of these Crysis Suit Invisonazis is really straining. What about situations when under high pressure? An ostwind comes in but u got no time to really react and try to coubter or buy time with ur few at inf. But no there is an ultimate anti inf defense.. he ostwind and invisonazis.. lets not forget how ridiculous it is for brits to counter.. and expensive! Like 6th said, leuts are cheap.. thats great!! But they are such an easily killed target esp if you have to use then soo offensively.. are they not supposed to act as an officer and support unit for ur inf? Buyt safetly right? They cannot camo or crawl.. they are such a vulnerable peice when used offensively. And recces are just so expensive. They can be one shotted with just about anything, very luckily will sometimes shrek miss or just damage main gun (but thats usually on ly with over rep). Idk man im goin on a rant..

Well, this sums it up perfect.

[6thAirborneDivision]

...

Yeah that sums it up nicely!

SAS are weak as f*ck btw. for the price but it is quite common knowledge kinda Any reasonable RAF player won't even get em. Only DEV's seem to ignore that one.
Commandos with stens also could be better. It kinda sucks you have to invest 8 (!!!) CP's in them to make them nearly halfway effective while Storms will tear them apart out of the box. But that is another issue .....