Coaxial and Hull MGs

[Warhawks97]

We once already talked about inf frontal rushes tanks, weak coaxial mgs etc. I think alone in old forum we had 3 or 4 such topics since 2013.

However i wanna get more clearly now in how it is and how i would suggest it could be.

I hope i got all datas correctly from corsix.

For us i found 1919A4 coaxial and hull, booth seem equal.

__________________________________M1919A4 Hull/coaxial:
Accuracy short/mid/long/distant range: 0.3/0.2/0.1/0.05
Rate of fire: 7
Burst duration: 5-5.5
Damage: 15-20
Aim time: 0
Cooldown: 4 (+ disatant mulipliers: 0.6/1/1.5/1.5)
Reload frequency: 5 (after 6 bursts)
Suppression short/mid/long/distant (per bullet): 0.003/0.003/0.0015/0.0015

Suggesting:
Accuracy short/mid/long/distant range: 0.35/0.25/0.15/0.1
Rate of fire: 8
Burst duration: 3-4
Damage: 20-25
Aim Time: 0.25 (Distant Mulipliers: 0.1/1/2/2)
Cooldown: 2-2.5 (Distant Mulipliers: 0.6/1/1.4/1.4)
Reload frequency: 4-5 (after 4-6 bursts)
Suppression short/mid/long/distant: 0.015/0.015/0.01/0.005



__________________________MG42 (actually Mg34) Hull
Accuracy short/mid/long/distant range: 0.3/0.2/0.1/0.05
Rate of fire: 6-10
Burst duration: 3-4
Damage: 20-25
Aim time: 0.25 (distant mulipliers: 0.1/1/2/2)
Cooldown: 3-3.5 (disatant mulipliers: 0.8/1/1.2/1.2)
Reload frequency: 7-8 (after 8-9 bursts)
Suppression short/mid/long/distant: 0.01/0.005/0.004/0.003

I found a so called "coaxial_generic" file for axis but idk if this is current axis coaxial MG. If so then axis coaxial mgs have a rof of only 4-6 currently oO. Also i found special KT and elephant Hull files but those seem equal to normal Hull mgs.

Suggesting (for all axis hull and coaxial MG34):
Accuracy short/mid/long/distant range: 0.35/0.25/0.15/0.1
Rate of fire: 15
Burst duration: 2-3
Damage: 20-25
Aim Time: 0.25 (Distant Mulipliers: 0.1/1/2/2)
Cooldown: 2.5-3 (Distant Mulipliers: 0.6/1/1.3/1.3)
Reload Freuqency: 3-4 (after 4-5 bursts)
Suppression short/mid/long/distant: 0.015/0.015/0.01/0.005



_________________________________________________Commonwealth_Besa_Hull
Accuracy short/mid/long/distant range: 0.3/0.2/0.1/0.05
Rate of fire: 7
Burst duration: 5-5.5
Damage: 15-20
Aim time: 0
Cooldown: 6 (Distant Mulipliers: 0.6/1/1.5/1.5). The CW coaxial has basic cooldown 5
Reload frequency: 10 (after 11 bursts)
Suppression short/mid/long/distant (per bullet): 0.003/0.003/0.0015/0.001

I found here also special firefly and avre files but they also seem to be same as normal besa.

Suggesting for all CW hull and coaxial MG´s
Accuracy short/mid/long/distant range: 0.35/0.25/0.15/0.1
Rate of fire: 9
Burst duration: 3-4
Damage: 20-25
Aim Time: 0.25 (Distant Mulipliers: 0.1/1/2/2)
Cooldown: 2-2.5 (Distant Mulipliers: 0.6/1/1.4/1.4)
Reload frequency: 4-5 (after 5-6 bursts)
Suppression short/mid/long/distant: 0.015/0.015/0.01/0.005


So what does it mean:

1. MG have got their actual and realistic rate of fires.
2. The coaxial MG´s now deal more damage in a short period to inf that attacks them, esspecially in the open. In return their bursts durations got shorter and the reload frequencies increased. So running towards a tank is more suicide, in return there are rushing options during reload times (which take arround 5-6 seconds)
3. The suppression is increased. Suppression per bullet is comparable to current cal 30 jeep suppression.
4. Axis deal more damage right with the first bursts. Therefore bursts are shorter and reloads earlier neccessay. The rounds fired before reload is between 120-200 rounds. depends o burst durations. Maybe it could be more creative here with burst durations and max/min reload frequency but that needs long calculations.
5. Infantry gameplay more tactical, less blobb+rush. Tanks and vehicles wont be forced so often to run away accross the half map just because 4 soldiers running towards them.



Markr warned me that inf based docs would suffer but i dont think it would hurt so much as their own tanks and vehicles would become a bit more important as well. But too often armies consist only of infantry. Many infantry based doctrines dont even build their later tier buildings and fighting till end only with inf against enemie inf and vehicles and late game tanks.

Stickies are currently used only against JT, elehpahnt and some tds and this hull mg buff wouldnt make it impossible to get stickies on these slowly turretless tanks.

In some cases infantry prices could drop as well if neccessary though i belive that most inf has very good cost efficency ratio. With that buff i think only commandos, CW inf and PE inf units and Luft inf would need some cost drops so that they would have it easier to field friendly tank and vehicle support for their inf.

[ShadowIchigo]

We once already talked about inf frontal rushes tanks, weak coaxial mgs etc. I think alone in old forum we had 3 or 4 such topics since 2013.

However i wanna get more clearly now in how it is and how i would suggest it could be.

I hope i got all datas correctly from corsix.

For us i found 1919A4 coaxial and hull, booth seem equal.

__________________________________M1919A4 Hull/coaxial:
Accuracy short/mid/long/distant range: 0.3/0.2/0.1/0.05
Rate of fire: 7
Burst duration: 5-5.5
Damage: 15-20
Aim time: 0
Cooldown: 4 (+ disatant mulipliers: 0.6/1/1.5/1.5)
Reload frequency: 5 (after 6 bursts)
Suppression short/mid/long/distant (per bullet): 0.003/0.003/0.0015/0.0015

Suggesting:
Accuracy short/mid/long/distant range: 0.35/0.25/0.15/0.1
Rate of fire: 8
Burst duration: 3-4
Damage: 20-25
Aim Time: 0.25 (Distant Mulipliers: 0.1/1/2/2)
Cooldown: 2-2.5 (Distant Mulipliers: 0.6/1/1.4/1.4)
Reload frequency: 4-5 (after 4-6 bursts)
Suppression short/mid/long/distant: 0.015/0.015/0.01/0.005



__________________________MG42 (actually Mg34) Hull
Accuracy short/mid/long/distant range: 0.3/0.2/0.1/0.05
Rate of fire: 6-10
Burst duration: 3-4
Damage: 20-25
Aim time: 0.25 (distant mulipliers: 0.1/1/2/2)
Cooldown: 3-3.5 (disatant mulipliers: 0.8/1/1.2/1.2)
Reload frequency: 7-8 (after 8-9 bursts)
Suppression short/mid/long/distant: 0.01/0.005/0.004/0.003

I found a so called "coaxial_generic" file for axis but idk if this is current axis coaxial MG. If so then axis coaxial mgs have a rof of only 4-6 currently oO. Also i found special KT and elephant Hull files but those seem equal to normal Hull mgs.

Suggesting (for all axis hull and coaxial MG34):
Accuracy short/mid/long/distant range: 0.35/0.25/0.15/0.1
Rate of fire: 15
Burst duration: 2-3
Damage: 20-25
Aim Time: 0.25 (Distant Mulipliers: 0.1/1/2/2)
Cooldown: 2.5-3 (Distant Mulipliers: 0.6/1/1.3/1.3)
Reload Freuqency: 3-4 (after 4-5 bursts)
Suppression short/mid/long/distant: 0.015/0.015/0.01/0.005



_________________________________________________Commonwealth_Besa_Hull
Accuracy short/mid/long/distant range: 0.3/0.2/0.1/0.05
Rate of fire: 7
Burst duration: 5-5.5
Damage: 15-20
Aim time: 0
Cooldown: 6 (Distant Mulipliers: 0.6/1/1.5/1.5). The CW coaxial has basic cooldown 5
Reload frequency: 10 (after 11 bursts)
Suppression short/mid/long/distant (per bullet): 0.003/0.003/0.0015/0.001

I found here also special firefly and avre files but they also seem to be same as normal besa.

Suggesting for all CW hull and coaxial MG´s
Accuracy short/mid/long/distant range: 0.35/0.25/0.15/0.1
Rate of fire: 9
Burst duration: 3-4
Damage: 20-25
Aim Time: 0.25 (Distant Mulipliers: 0.1/1/2/2)
Cooldown: 2-2.5 (Distant Mulipliers: 0.6/1/1.4/1.4)
Reload frequency: 4-5 (after 5-6 bursts)
Suppression short/mid/long/distant: 0.015/0.015/0.01/0.005


So what does it mean:

1. MG have got their actual and realistic rate of fires.
2. The coaxial MG´s now deal more damage in a short period to inf that attacks them, esspecially in the open. In return their bursts durations got shorter and the reload frequencies increased. So running towards a tank is more suicide, in return there are rushing options during reload times (which take arround 5-6 seconds)
3. The suppression is increased. Suppression per bullet is comparable to current cal 30 jeep suppression.
4. Axis deal more damage right with the first bursts. Therefore bursts are shorter and reloads earlier neccessay. The rounds fired before reload is between 120-200 rounds. depends o burst durations. Maybe it could be more creative here with burst durations and max/min reload frequency but that needs long calculations.
5. Infantry gameplay more tactical, less blobb+rush. Tanks and vehicles wont be forced so often to run away accross the half map just because 4 soldiers running towards them.



Markr warned me that inf based docs would suffer but i dont think it would hurt so much as their own tanks and vehicles would become a bit more important as well. But too often armies consist only of infantry. Many infantry based doctrines dont even build their later tier buildings and fighting till end only with inf against enemie inf and vehicles and late game tanks.

Stickies are currently used only against JT, elehpahnt and some tds and this hull mg buff wouldnt make it impossible to get stickies on these slowly turretless tanks.

In some cases infantry prices could drop as well if neccessary though i belive that most inf has very good cost efficency ratio. With that buff i think only commandos, CW inf and PE inf units and Luft inf would need some cost drops so that they would have it easier to field friendly tank and vehicle support for their inf.

I really like the idea of the reload duration, making it a tactical decision of when to rush. But yea, just as you said i think theres still alot of calculations that would be needed statstical-wise.