Mortars

[Warhawks97]

I know wolf is against the stuff i write here as we discussed it in the large topic already but still, i hope that more people will read it when i create extra topics and thus i hope that people will understand my "plan". After cost increase suggestion of paks and arty pieces, cost decrease of vehicles, cost decrease of certain inf units i now create this topic about mortars. As we want less arty parties in games i try to provide alternatives to arty being just as cost effective as arty in many situations or even more and that arty is more used in contrast to larger tactically decisions and not to bomb every single unit and to shoot all few seconds accross the map into the fog of war. And mortars play here also an important part, esspecially the infantry mortars.

First some cost changes of mortars:

WE mortar HT: -25 MP and - 5 fuel cost
US mortar HT: - 25 MP and- -5 fuel cost
81 and 80 mm infantry Mortars: - 30 mp
60 mm Mortar: - 35 MP
CW mortar emplacmet: -20 MP
PE Mortar HT: -25 mp (?) and -5 fuel

Inf doc able to build infantry 80 mm but also 60 mm mortar.

Add ammo cost to normal barrages, smoke keeps for free. I dont want the cheap mortars becoming the "new arty spam". I want the more tactical and worth to build even later in games when arty is already present.

60 mm: 10 ammo for barrage
76/80/81 mm: 15-20 ammo for barrage.

these "creepy barrages" for vet inf mortars: 30 ammo, less for the 60 mm.

You can still order the mortar to shoot a target area for free by using the attack button. Just the mortar would fire with normal speed then. If you want to barrage an area with quickly following shots then use barrage which cost then some ammo. heavy mortars already work that way.

[jonnyyankee]

Im agreed with you but if some good idea if the mortar like 60mm can have more range thats gonna be so cool

[Redgaarden]

I dont see a point in changing the mortars. This just looks like unnecessary changes

[Warhawks97]

I dont see a point in changing the mortars. This just looks like unnecessary changes

unit cost efficencies and artillery alternatives. All do complain over huge arty parties and devs simply limit them. I rather try to provide cost effective alternatives. Sukin just said for example that the CW arty 75 mm HT is the only thing that can break early axis pak and HMG wall. So i think that more expensive paks and cheaper mortars might help solving that. Others say that there is too much arty and i also agree that arty is being used way too often as first option. Its simply because everything is quite expensive, just arty is pretty cheap to build and to be used.

Its just strange that arty and defensive units do belong to the cheapest stuff in game. Thats why cheaper vehicles, more expensive paks, here and there cheaper inf, cheaper mortars, more expensive arty. Currently in pretty much every game artillery starts shooting right after 5 minutes of the game and very often simply mindlessly into the fog of war against expected targets. I just thought that creating one large topic explaining the entire idea would be too large and many wouldnt read it. Now i make smaller and more specific topics and now nobody sees the whole picture and idea behind that ;(

[DaŇjeL_SK]

I dont want the cheap mortars becoming the "new arty spam".

And how u want to pretend this spam ? ... please... say me how u want to stop spamming of mortars in game ?
... I played a lot of hames, where enemy builded bunkers, trenches, 2 mortar squads and 2 mortar vehicles... I played several games where both enemies did this... trust me.... it was very difficult to broke this line, because they didn't make assault units...

Its just strange that arty and defensive units do belong to the cheapest stuff in game. Thats why cheaper vehicles, more expensive paks, here and there cheaper inf, cheaper mortars, more expensive arty. Currently in pretty much every game artillery starts shooting right after 5 minutes of the game and very often simply mindlessly into the fog of war against expected targets.

Because defensive units are always cheaper... in real too... u set one mg to stop hundret men...
... cheapness of arty depends on map.... are maps, where is very difficult to play with arty...
... And no, I don't see that idea behind it.

[Warhawks97]

And how u want to pretend this spam ? ... please... say me how u want to stop spamming of mortars in game ?
... I played a lot of hames, where enemy builded bunkers, trenches, 2 mortar squads and 2 mortar vehicles... I played several games where both enemies did this... trust me.... it was very difficult to broke this line, because they didn't make assault units...

is the spam the prob or the spam of barrage use. I dont have probs with mortars, just that they can barrage all the time. No cost, no cooldown.
This style is used very often by PE. They get paks and mortar HT´s and mgs very early so they quickly get such a defense. And few mins later they just go crazy with arty. Thats how axis are being played very often. No assault units, camp, arty. But once both sides got arty then you wont see any mortar anymore in game coz every mortar HT will get bombed quickly by cheap(er) arty units

Having for example cheaper infantry mortars could help using more effective smoke rounds+ assault units to break this. Also this is why i want more expensive paks. Generally def is cheap, in reality yes. But unlike in reality they outrange tanks, stand many shots, ambush everywhere, are more flexible. And tell me then why an axis HMg cost 350 MP. Its so expensive coz its so good, not because its realistic. Beside that even if paks are cheap, they still need more time, manpower and materials as an infantry squad and single HMG. Still the paks are the cheapest stuff you can get in game although infantry, HMG´s and mortars would be the cheapest stuff. And everything would only cost MP actually and fuel only being consumed. So your argument is true, even in game but also wrong. So even if we increase pak cost they would still be pretty cost effective with the first hit already.


So more expensive paks, cheaper vehicles, cheaper mortars, esspecially infantry mortars, would cause by far less camp and higher dyncamic and with then more expensive arty less arty as there wouldnt be so many campy moments that would require arty everytime and it wouldnt be realy worth it with arty to shoot single soliders.

Because defensive units are always cheaper... in real too... u set one mg to stop hundret men...
... cheapness of arty depends on map.... are maps, where is very difficult to play with arty...
... And no, I don't see that idea behind it.

Generally def is cheap, in reality yes. But unlike in reality they outrange tanks, stand many shots, ambush everywhere, are more flexible. BUT tell me then why an axis HMG cost 350 MP. Its so expensive coz its so good, not because its realistic. Beside that even if paks are cheap, they still need more time, manpower and materials as an infantry squad or single HMG.However, the paks are the cheapest stuff you can get in game although infantry, HMG´s and mortars would be the cheapest stuff using your argument, or am i wrong? tell me when i am wrong. And everything would only cost MP actually and fuel only being consumed. So your argument is true, even in game but also wrong. So even if we increase pak cost they would still be pretty cost effective with the first hit already and by far cheaper than any unit they would kill.


my goal is to exactly decrease your easy campy games which finally ends in huge arty parties as there is often no other way. Increased pak cost (which still would be very cheap compared to what they actually kill. One shot and the weapon is worth it, even when they would cost more), Few inf sqauds cheaper, more expensive arty (more expensive to build and higher ability cost and adding unlocks as well maybe), cheaper mortars that can effectively engage in flexible games going forward and backward with other units, even in late game. Adding cost for barrage abilites and some cooldownd and its done. And finally mortars are limited anyway. But you probably havent noticed it as they are used soooo often. But i didnt really realized the limit as well because nobody ever used more than 2 mortars anyway.

As final step light arty could become more important maybe.

[DaŇjeL_SK]

Almost everyone is using mortars (especially mortar cars) in late game too... in open maps no... that is thrue... but who usually use standard mortarion open map ?
Problem is, in late game u loose that mortar easier.... so when I lost about 2 mortar cars I stop making of them... everyone with sense do... problem of spamming mortar rounds is shooting on ground target... every mortar except heavy mortars have this ability...

Bigger problem with mortars is for me when they undertake suicide attack with knife, because target moved out of range (I did not happened to me long time... or yes.. .it happened, but I noticed that and stopped unit) ... so with hold position button will be this unit better too....