K98 Its better than M1 garand?

[jonnyyankee]

Hellow everyone i was playing vs WH im Us player and i see than grenadier kill my rangers at far distance with k98 rifles i dont know why i saw in this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand have Effective firing range 500 yd (457 m)[4] and K98 Effective firing range 500 m (550 yd) with iron sights https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Karabiner_98k have the same effective firing distance why m1 garand cant kill grenadier at far distance? even in green cover ?

[JimQwilleran]

Omg, dude this is an ultimate spell to summon Warhawks ;D.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Well, according to these provided sources of information.. the Kr98 is still better at longer ranges ^^ And if u continue observing... The Kr98 does also have an effective firing range of about 1000m when the scope is attached! As it could be used as a sniper rifle while the M1 Grand is less accurate having a higher rate of fire even causing some suppression being more effective on shorter ranges with a higher bullets magazine as well It can't be used as a sniper rifle on the other hand.

[jonnyyankee]

Omg, dude this is an ultimate spell to summon Warhawks ;D.

Thats not true i can even show in a video pionners can kill riflemen even without cover , nobody can beat me in pvp im just want fair balance this is it my observation

[Warhawks97]

Jonny.... give it up.... i tried it already:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=557

US weapons are shit. Beyond mid range they cant or penetrate shit. The rangers suddenly shoot as shitty at range as axis pioneers.

@Tiger: As sniper, you told it. But ww2 inf combat ranges had been usually not farther tahn 500 meters and here it doesnt matter if bolt action or not. As sniper bolt action makes sense, for average inf combat engagments there isnt a real advantage.

Also jonny, Axis bullets deal always more damage. They are not only more accurate. Close range, as you probably figured out, is only effectively possible in large scale with inf doc inf spam. Earlier they die before they get anyhow close.


So yeah, best is you understand that US weapons cant to much at ranges beyond mid range (mid range is in average the range of volks grens Panzerfaust range, if you are farther away you have big disadvantages)

[Krieger Blitzer]

Exactly, both if u should give it up with this subject Cause it makes no sense at all...
Save ur time!

[jonnyyankee]

Jonny.... give it up.... i tried it already:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=557

US weapons are shit. Beyond mid range they cant or penetrate shit. The rangers suddenly shoot as shitty at range as axis pioneers.

@Tiger: As sniper, you told it. But ww2 inf combat ranges had been usually not farther tahn 500 meters and here it doesnt matter if bolt action or not. As sniper bolt action makes sense, for average inf combat engagments there isnt a real advantage.

Also jonny, Axis bullets deal always more damage. They are not only more accurate. Close range, as you probably figured out, is only effectively possible in large scale with inf doc inf spam. Earlier they die before they get anyhow close.


So yeah, best is you understand that US weapons cant to much at ranges beyond mid range (mid range is in average the range of volks grens Panzerfaust range, if you are farther away you have big disadvantages)

thanks for answer warhawks then this is unbalance and unfair mod or what gonna happen ?? its very nice this mod why happen this unbalances ?? why why the modders give more op german units? because the modders are from germany? the mortar 60 mm even sucks all sucks of inf only the US vehicles are great and tanks only that

[Krieger Blitzer]

LOL!
I feel so pity for u and ur innocent US, Hahahahahaha...

[jonnyyankee]

Exactly, both if u should give it up with this subject Cause it makes no sense at all...
Save ur time!

i never go to surrender in this subject because i want US inf balance if i said and make this post is because i want better US infantry and make mortars like Europe at war blitzkrieg modders cant make good inf as Europe ar War? or what? i suppose you are a axis player for that u are agreed with german units op!

[Warhawks97]

thanks for answer warhawks then this is unbalance and unfair mod or what gonna happen ?? its very nice this mod why happen this unbalances ?? why why the modders give more op german units? because the modders are from germany? the mortar 60 mm even sucks all sucks of inf only the US vehicles are great and tanks only that

Old devs came from germany, yes. Those gave this sudden accuracy drops from mid to long and distant range to US (from 0.55 to 0.2 for rangers oO). Also sudden pen drops:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=561


Wolf is not from germany, so i dont think he is anyhow favoring axis. He is just unsure if he should change that.

i never go to surrender in this subject because i want US inf balance if i said and make this post is because i want better US infantry and make mortars like Europe at war blitzkrieg modders cant make good inf as Europe ar War? or what? i suppose you are a axis player for that u are agreed with german units op!

maybe you should. Many gave up on this subject (if i would start writting a list of player names, then it would be my largest roman here in this forum. One sample:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=316

this guy for example. He tried..... He never wrote anything again here in forum.

[jonnyyankee]

LOL!
I feel so pity for u and ur innocent US, Hahahahahaha...

Go to the hell!

[jonnyyankee]

thanks for answer warhawks then this is unbalance and unfair mod or what gonna happen ?? its very nice this mod why happen this unbalances ?? why why the modders give more op german units? because the modders are from germany? the mortar 60 mm even sucks all sucks of inf only the US vehicles are great and tanks only that

Old devs came from germany, yes. Those gave this sudden accuracy drops from mid to long and distant range to US (from 0.55 to 0.2 for rangers oO). Also sudden pen drops:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=561


Wolf is not from germany, so i dont think he is anyhow favoring axis. He is just unsure if he should change that.

then what gonna happen in the future you think gonna make more balance for this inf units? and like u said mid or long range?

[Krieger Blitzer]

@Jonny;
I am not an Axis only player like u think.. I have some decent US faction stats.
But that's true.. I always preferred Axis, even on the Relic vCoH although it was real BS being purely for Allies favor! Even Tigers there were always hitting the dirt 5 meters in front of them as it was probably the max range o.O

However that I believe the Bk mod isn't anyhow favoring Axis at any possible point currently. Just do some practice and u will soon have Vet4 Rifles just right at the start of the game

No any kind of balance is broken considering this subject at all... It's just ur bad as I assume!!

[jonnyyankee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li5INP8 ... e=youtu.be

[Krieger Blitzer]

Testing vs or with such low CPU level??? Whole 10 minutes just to show me this crap?! X_X

If this CPU orders any of his units to quickly run towards ur Pioneers being in close range using their Grand.. ur Pioneers are gonna be instantly a part of history.

It's not the Kr's fault that it was made better on longer ranges, and worse on shorter ranges!!! Get lost...

[jonnyyankee]

Testing vs such low level CPU??? Whole 10 minutes just to show me this crap?! X_X

If this CPU orders any of his units to quickly run towards ur Pioneers being in close range.. ur pioneers are gonna be a part of history.

its the same units dont be stupid are the same damage u r a fool u need to learn how to use corsix studio doesnt matter if its the cpu or not its the same units and cant even died play vanilla game and its balance if the cpu are balance even in pvp thats so simply to know u r retard brain and i dont want to talk with a stupid person dont even never know about programming!

[Krieger Blitzer]

Hahahahahahahaha... This is the most funniest conversation happened to me since ages to be honest

I just said get closer with ur Rifles.. and then u will quickly shred those Pioneers CPU never does this ^^

U r not going to teach me about programming or how to use Crosix dude, pull urself altogether.

[JimQwilleran]

Tiger, why are you unkind for Johny? Why do you have to repeat everywhere how decent your stats are? He is a new member of community and by your snobbish behavior you make all of us look bad... Could you hold your ego at least once? Shouldn't you be a modest person as a Muslim?

@jonnyyankee: This mod, as devs say, is not about realism. It has more realism than vanilla, but still we have to accept that in some things there are "arcade" solutions. I answer you, yes K98 is better. Why? Because in this mod axis has better quality, allies have quantity.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Tiger, why are you unkind for Johny? Why do you have to repeat everywhere how decent your stats are? He is a new member of community and by your snobbish behavior you make all of us look bad... Could you hold your ego at least once? Shouldn't you be a modest person as a Muslim?

Can u plz point to me what exactly wrong I said?
He suddenly claimed that I am an Axis only player just because I disagreed with him in such a matter of which he believes it's favoring the Axis than the Allies, then simply I replied back stating that this isn't true.. as I do also have a decent US stats!
Did I even post him a screenshot showing my stats here or something so that for u to then come and tell me that??? SO what's ur standpoint there on this one?!

After it he couldn't stand me for some unknown reasons.. while spreading his insults like most of u usually DO!

So first; I think u should go and tell him to be moderate enough to speak, before u keep judging ONLY me like always!!!

[JimQwilleran]

But why do you argue with him? He is new, he doesn't understand the game. I mean this is obvious that if he doesn't have the knowledge of game, he will speak about u personally. He has to be explained patiently... and not laughed at.

[jonnyyankee]

Tiger, why are you unkind for Johny? Why do you have to repeat everywhere how decent your stats are? He is a new member of community and by your snobbish behavior you make all of us look bad... Could you hold your ego at least once? Shouldn't you be a modest person as a Muslim?

@jonnyyankee: This mod, as devs say, is not about realism. It has more realism than vanilla, but still we have to accept that in some things there are "arcade" solutions. I answer you, yes K98 is better. Why? Because in this mod axis has better quality, allies have quantity.

Thanks JimQwilleran somebody now decent to answer me like warhawk.. thanks now i understand

[MarKr]

Hi jonnyyankee!

As somebody already mentioned here this mod is not aimed to be as realistic as possible. It is more realistic than vCoH but realism has never been its goal.
To your question about rifles - Kar98 is quite accurate at long distance, or definately more accurate than M1 Garand which means that when axis infantry fires at US infantry at max range, Axis will most likely win. However M1 Garands are much stronger than Kar98 at shorter distances (they fire faster and much more accurate). So yes, if your opponent (axis) starts shooting at your infantry and you just move your infantry to the nearest cover and wait what will happen, then your infantry will (most probably) lose. However if you quickly move them close to your oponent you will most likely win the firefight.

And now imagine that M1 Garand has "more realistic" accuracy at long distance. If that was the case, then Riflemen with M1 Garand would be quite effective at every range in the early game even without any weapon upgrades - but keep in mind that riflemen are one of the cheapest and most easily spamable infantry in the game. So you could actually build them in huge numbers with quite a big efficiency and in such huge numbers they could just roll over any Axis infantry units even with upgrades. And that again wouldn't be very balanced :/. So for this and similar reasons there are "unrealistic" differences in almost all weapons.

I hope this answers your question.

[jonnyyankee]

Hi jonnyyankee!

As somebody already mentioned here this mod is not aimed to be as realistic as possible. It is more realistic than vCoH but realism has never been its goal.
To your question about rifles - Kar98 is quite accurate at long distance, or definately more accurate than M1 Garand which means that when axis infantry fires at US infantry at max range, Axis will most likely win. However M1 Garands are much stronger than Kar98 at shorter distances (they fire faster and much more accurate). So yes, if your opponent (axis) starts shooting at your infantry and you just move your infantry to the nearest cover and wait what will happen, then your infantry will (most probably) lose. However if you quickly move them close to your oponent you will most likely win the firefight.

And now imagine that M1 Garand has "more realistic" accuracy at long distance. If that was the case, then Riflemen with M1 Garand would be quite effective at every range in the early game even without any weapon upgrades - but keep in mind that riflemen are one of the cheapest and most easily spamable infantry in the game. So you could actually build them in huge numbers with quite a big efficiency and in such huge numbers they could just roll over any Axis infantry units even with upgrades. And that again wouldn't be very balanced :/. So for this and similar reasons there are "unrealistic" differences in almost all weapons.

I hope this answers your question.

Thanks broo .. yeah thats true i only want to be honest to have more balance in that way but if cant have more damage or has the same damage because its so important too the yellow cover and all of that i think need to have the same damage at far distance .. for have more balance .. but anyway thanks for your answer n.n

[Warhawks97]

As somebody already mentioned here this mod is not aimed to be as realistic as possible. It is more realistic than vCoH but realism has never been its goal.
To your question about rifles - Kar98 is quite accurate at long distance, or definately more accurate than M1 Garand which means that when axis infantry fires at US infantry at max range, Axis will most likely win. However M1 Garands are much stronger than Kar98 at shorter distances (they fire faster and much more accurate). So yes, if your opponent (axis) starts shooting at your infantry and you just move your infantry to the nearest cover and wait what will happen, then your infantry will (most probably) lose. However if you quickly move them close to your oponent you will most likely win the firefight.

Well, here vcoh is more realistic. There rifles cost a bit more but M1 has so far same accuracy at any distance then k98. Anyway k98 shoots there faster at distance than M1. But the ranged fight balance seems better there though.

BUT STILL: You wanna really tell me that pioneers do shoot at long, not even distant range, as good as rangers? The sudden massive drop beyond mid range is just dumb and i think old devs never really cared about it. In the other topic i was asking long range from 0.2 to 0.25 and for rangers 0.3 and distant range same for rifles and 0.25 or so for rangers. Even if allis need to get close always this is really kind of dumb because a rifle squad should at least be able to fight of pioneers even on larger distances. That rifles need to get close to volks, ok, but vs pios? really? And the Rangers damage output at long and distant range not higher as those of pios? really? At distances like long and distant range M1 is not shooting faster even (k98 shoots faster slighlty, why?) and why must an axis bullet deal more damage (not even in vcoh they did something stupid like this)? And finally why has a Axis Gren more HP as a US Ranger?

and why you lie? The M1 has not better accuracy at close range, in fact its lower. Rangers at close range shoot as accurate as volks. So only faster shooting is true at close and mid range.

And now imagine that M1 Garand has "more realistic" accuracy at long distance. If that was the case, then Riflemen with M1 Garand would be quite effective at every range in the early game even without any weapon upgrades - but keep in mind that riflemen are one of the cheapest and most easily spamable infantry in the game. So you could actually build them in huge numbers with quite a big efficiency and in such huge numbers they could just roll over any Axis infantry units even with upgrades. And that again wouldn't be very balanced :/. So for this and similar reasons there are "unrealistic" differences in almost all weapons.

ehm. Spamable in inf doc but that makes them not effective. rifle bloobs are supposed to die. All they can is to sit in trenches at this stage of the game. In 2 vs 2 that has some value but in the general bullet wall of teamfights they just die before they score kills so far. Ive never seen anyone spamming rifles by purpose (not even as inf doc) besides me and i can say that it is quite useless to do so and only rifle nades do some kills then. But yeah, blobb 5 rifle squads that all shoot rifle nades and 100 ammo gone for what? I get rifles in inf doc only by this ambulance truck but i gave up producing them even when they cost just 175 mp in inf doc.

But ive never rolled over enemies with rifles lol... doesnt matter how many i used, it always failed. Rangers for 270 mp can do so but not rifles.

[Wolf]

Jeez warhawks, really? Not only you are wrong in multiple points, but arguing with vCoH? Where iirc leader has half more damage then others? Probably special bullets there right?
You did much better in argumenting without corsix than with it. I have much better things to do, rather than list it, so find it yourself, if you need it. But hey, long distance will be upped to 0.25, and short of kar to 0.7, so be happy.