TH Doc Panther G for Nashorn

[Warhawks97]

Hey, What you think about adding Panther G to TH doc replacing the nashorn? A Nashorn isnt really needed in that doc as it has Jagdpanther and IV/70. So maybe more offense power with Panther G?

Let me just hear what you think about it.

[JimQwilleran]

Yes let's give them another unit that bounce everything... Haven't u seen in our recent game a Jagdpanzer which survived 10 min under fire from 76mm and 17p? TH tank destroyers are insanely overpowered in terms of HP/armor. This is very bad idea to give them now the best tank in game. They are "Tank Hunters", they should have nothing more than panzer IV imo.

[Warhawks97]

Its actually only the IV/70 that is so strange and which is never being hit by anything. the IV/48 and IV/A from def doc are being killed much easier.

Anyway, its just a thought aiming also in the direction less camp, more movment and higher game dynamics.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Im all for it.

[DaŇjeL_SK]

1. NO!
2. Why ? They have tank hunters against tanks and panzer 4 against infantry
3. ... why ? NO!
4. Can u anyone imagine panther G with zimmerit ? ... I don't... even now is panther G OP... what will be then ?
5. NOOOO!

[Warhawks97]

1. NO!
2. Why ? They have tank hunters against tanks and panzer 4 against infantry
3. ... why ? NO!
4. Can u anyone imagine panther G with zimmerit ? ... I don't... even now is panther G OP... what will be then ?
5. NOOOO!

I can imagine it. I played many games vs old TH doc having Tigers, Panther G´s, KT´s with zimmerit. So yeah, i can imagine.


Anyway, was just a thought as TH doc is still boring and very campy. And if anything is nasty on it, then its the "unhitable" IV/70:P

[JimQwilleran]

Anyway, was just a thought as TH doc is still boring and very campy.

But dude, you can't break game balance because you think that some docs are boring. Isn't Def doc campy? Try to win with def doc now. Try to kill Mg-bunker,88,Stupa,Arty combo. Good luck. Some docs are too powerful if you let them unleash their potential. Imagine 2 Jagdpanthers backing a Panther G. Nothing can kill this tank blob.

I guess that Tank Hunters doc is meant to be more a defensive doc, so I guess that giving it a panther (G!) will make it more offensive, which I guess devs wouldn't like.

[Warhawks97]

well. In old versions i did so. I had two Panther G´s and one JP. Games too like 3 hours:D Still it was hard since enemies had RE doc and thus several 17 pdr emplacments and also many comets.

One freaking combo back in those days had been the mega stupa backing up the Panther G´s which got spammed with res trade giving 100 fuel for 100 ammo. That was nasty.


That some docs are very strong when giving them time to unleash their potential is true. But thats generally the case for axis docs. Giving BK, Terror and def doc time as allis is actually suicide for allied team. The TH doc once had been the main axis offensive doc together with BK doc and terror. Now its a bit campy. As i said my goal is to achive higher game dynamics with more attacks/counter attacks and less campy games where booth sides only spam reccons for like 10 mins to find arty targets. I was thinking that this change could help a bit.

The main reasons why Panthers are so hard to kill is:
1. They are often backed up by defense like schrecks, paks, even 88 etc. So any attack is doomed to fail.
2. Axis can bomb the map back into stoneage with lots of rocket arty. So adequte defense against Panthers is often killed by arty before the Panther is attacking.
3. Seldomly played RE doc. RE doc has great AT capabilities. Just its rarely played because of the RA doc being the only doc capabale to deal effectively with 88. Here i simply have the hope that when the unemplaced 88 wouldnt have infinite range and durability in next patch then RA would be less often played and therefore more often combos like with RE like i did in old times.

[JimQwilleran]

The main reasons why Panthers are so hard to kill is:
1. They are often backed up by defense like schrecks, paks, even 88 etc. So any attack is doomed to fail.
2. Axis can bomb the map back into stoneage with lots of rocket arty. So adequte defense against Panthers is often killed by arty before the Panther is attacking.
3. Seldomly played RE doc. RE doc has great AT capabilities. Just its rarely played because of the RA doc being the only doc capabale to deal effectively with 88. Here i simply have the hope that when the unemplaced 88 wouldnt have infinite range and durability in next patch then RA would be less often played and therefore more often combos like with RE like i did in old times.

But RE is a pure campy doc. With it you can even camp with tanks. So how would giving panther to TH, even vs RE, make the game more dynamic? To stop that super-armored blobb only a wall of 17p would would have any chance. Is that dynamic?

[Warhawks97]

From my experience i would say yes. 1-2 17 pdrs that still can die from a rocket salvo makes a game at least not more campy than a single unemplaced 88 and tons of IV/70 that can be killed only by arty.

We didnt use tons of emplacments. Few, yes. But later mainly only M10 and Comet. At that time nobody spammed 88´s (for several reasons) and axis spend a lot more into offense unlike today where they spend most into defense.

The biggest enemie for axis is when allis can move free and when pak walls are gone, then, as you could see, the axis tanks can be easier surrouned by tanks (back in days i even blocked axis heavy tanks like Jagdpanther by parking one tank behind it etc) and finally killed.
With other words, most effective against later axis armor is to isolate them coz then allis can use their superior masses to take on heavy tanks from all directions. But currently the axis tanks later are greatly supported and backed up of many paks and 88´s while ammount of allied armor reduced a bit compared to old times before RE docs disappearence.

So when 88´s wouldnt be the ulitmate back up weapons only destroyable more or less by priests only after long shooting, the mixed arty of calli rockets, inf arty and RE arty and glider sufficient to clean the back up of axis late tanks and to isolate them then allis armor has a real chance in the later game to deal with axis armor like in old times. And thats where my thoughts are aiming at with changed unemplaced 88, sd2, pak cost increase. The chance then to play out the allied flexibility in late game (talking about ammount of units) would help them more against Panther G´s as any gun buff against it. Our favorid tactic in old days had been to push with the number of tanks and inf there where allis tanks hadnt been and thus we could force them to move their tanks from one front area to another untill we got a good chance to make a shot.

I hope you understand what i mean. and RE isnt that unfexible actually.They can do a nice advance with flexible defense by using 95 churchills, M10 and gliders. But as i said, the main reason it disappeared was the need of RA replacing the RE doc in many games. I wouldnt call RE as campy doc, rather slowly advancing able to turn their offense units into defense units and back-> flexible defense is also a kind of dynamic playing.

[Wolf]

I hope you understand what i mean. and RE isnt that unfexible actually.They can do a nice advance with flexible defense by using 95 churchills, M10 and gliders. But as i said, the main reason it disappeared was the need of RA replacing the RE doc in many games. I wouldnt call RE as campy doc, rather slowly advancing able to turn their offense units into defense units and back-> flexible defense is also a kind of dynamic playing.

What exactly makes it different from def doc btw? They can also use units as offense and as defense, yet I think it was you who claim them as campy. Def infantry is especially good with tree bonuses. RE is more tank oriented.

[Kasbah]

Nashorn perfectly fits SE but is totally useless in TH, for the same price you have a way better overall tank like the jagdpanzer. I never see it and I never build it.

If the Panther is not going to be added then some other option would be welcomed.

[Warhawks97]

I hope you understand what i mean. and RE isnt that unfexible actually.They can do a nice advance with flexible defense by using 95 churchills, M10 and gliders. But as i said, the main reason it disappeared was the need of RA replacing the RE doc in many games. I wouldnt call RE as campy doc, rather slowly advancing able to turn their offense units into defense units and back-> flexible defense is also a kind of dynamic playing.

What exactly makes it different from def doc btw? They can also use units as offense and as defense, yet I think it was you who claim them as campy. Def infantry is especially good with tree bonuses. RE is more tank oriented.

Well. RE can build dozens of emplacments but it doesnt help that much against walking stukas, sector arty on their territory, stuhs. And church are actually ding like the emplacments. Also Tanks used as temporary emplacment is not the same as bunker. RE as def and offense units in one unit. Def has strong stationary def but also flexible offense.

Def doc has good offense power. 88 as arty, grens with this def bonus becoming immortals, stupa, VT makes all arty shooting with 100 activation range, off map arty. So Def doc is decent offense doc actually, not seldomly better as TH and Luft doc. But also these infinite 88 range and their durability makes this doc causing huge campy moments and unemplaced 88´s force allis mainly to use RA doc in every game as protective measure.

So def doc causes campy moments coz of they way the doc is played, not what this doc could also do.

Btw. Arty doc has this "arty spearfire" ability for 150 mmo right? the one where arty shells striking randomly in an area for a duration. Wouldnt that fit better in RE doc since this doc has no use for its ammo while arty doc seldomly wastes ammo for it? Anyway.

Fact is that RA replaced RE in many games coz inf doc had trouble to deal with effective 88 spam with single arty sherman later in game. And this highly decreased the dynamic in games coz allied lost one pushing/support/TH doc with RE which aided greatly the early advance up to that time. But i dont get how we suddenly talk about that when it is about Panther G. I just said that G got so strong/effective/considered as OP by many players because allis using by far less often RE than in older versions where we faced even more Panther G´s.

Did i mention that axis would spam less TH´s when spending more res into a single Panther oO. That alone would create a higher dynamic or am i wrong?