Jeeps

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I have some issues about jeeps, because i personally dont like how all of them work. Lets start with 30 cal.

1) 30 cal., it have way too much HP, its very annoying cause silly jeep can drive arround your pioniers for a min if not more, bullets doing very small damage, just compare it to bike, which will instantly die if you ll get close to engeniers\sappers in good cover. It obviously must have better HP than axis counterparts, but difference shouldnt be that huge. Also 30 cal. kills schwimm in a blink of an eye, in most cases without loosing more than 1\4 of its own hitpoints, why so? Chance must be equal, especially if take in attention how long it takes to repair Schwim.

2) 50 cal. inf doc, the supression have been added for 30 cal., same must happen to 50 cal.

3) Airborne Jeep - thats so god damn broken, armor is just messed up, it cant be seriously damaged by 20mm base flaks, but dies with a burst of stationary mg42, usually one shoted by 37mm pak, but can bounce off 28mm spz pretty often (though this cannon have better penetration) and once i even seen how this Jeep bounced off Pak 38 shell lol. Ostwind HE shell - no damage. Must recieve supression..

4) Rocket Jeep - unit actually makes very little sense, cause this barrage is so weak, maximum result you can get is killling crew of something and the cost of it tadaaaam 55 ammo, HUGE overprice for such a fireworks unit, 35 ammo is fair price i think. And if im not mistake unit cost itslef is also overpriced, ill check it and etid post later

[Krieger Blitzer]

-I agree the first point but the thing about how the Jeep is shredding the PE Schwimm too fast is already monitored on the "Inspiring for perfection!" topic btw. There is a whole very high priority point about it there!

-NOWAY man! 50.cal mounted on hellcats or anything else is too effective killing inf very well.. they die just before thinking of any suppress. Very high damage per each bullet already!! U know that.

-Third point agreed again.

-Agreed once more!

[Warhawks97]

1. Agreed. I dont know.... my grens with k98 fired several salvos on it but the jeep took no damage. Also Jeep takes too little damage from schwimm and bike whereas the mg42 on scout car kills it very fast. Why are mg42 (or mg 34 when checking their rof) working so different here? Still keep in mind that schwimm and bike killing several soldiers right in one burst. Longer time ago i mentioned that Jeep and schwimm can booth take tooooo many bullets from rifles. And this makes them for too long too dominating against inf. The only unit working as intended, as light recon vehicle that dies fast, is the bike and i think jeeps and schwimms should work same.

2. Cal 50`s on vehicles have afaik no basic suppression values or very low only. Personally ive never seen cal 50 on vehicle suppressing anything (only pinning with suppression ability on sherman). Mg42´s on vehicles have normal suppressive values. But yeah, many build cal 30 jeep over cal 50 even in HR games.

3.true. Its broken as described

4. yes


@Tiger: Its not true what you write about cal 50. Long time ago me and mates and clan mates checked weapon values. The cal 50 has not realy a higher bullet damage than axis 7.92 mm mgs. In average just 1.5 more damage per bullet than axis vehicle mounted MG. The reason for that is the unexplainable "damage span" of cal 50 which NO other MG has. Usually the "damage span" between possible Min and Max damage for mgs etc is 4-5 damage difference. Just cal 50 on vehicle has 10 (20-30). So the lowest possible damage pushes down the average damage to those of smaller MG´s. I guess jalis and markr can confirm this also. Thats actually the reaon why US use HE units like scott and shermans while axis dont need HE tank IV´s really. Cal 50´s alone cant kill anything reliable, esspecially not at distance. Only in support of other units or over longer time or closer ranges.

[Krieger Blitzer]

This US command car (Or that one similar to it of which I can't remember its name honestly) Sukin used against SLO was having a 50.cal, it was simply working very well as usual.

[MarKr]

1) 30 cal., it have way too much HP, its very annoying cause silly jeep can drive arround your pioniers for a min if not more, bullets doing very small damage, just compare it to bike, which will instantly die if you ll get close to engeniers\sappers in good cover. It obviously must have better HP than axis counterparts, but difference shouldnt be that huge. Also 30 cal. kills schwimm in a blink of an eye, in most cases without loosing more than 1\4 of its own hitpoints, why so?

Not sure about this one...Jeep is more durable under fire however it takes longer to suppress infantry (or when you decided to compare to Schwimm/Bike - Jeep's .30 cal is weaker against infantry than Bike/Schwimm) and infantry in green cover can take the Jeep out. Schwimm suppresses and schreds infantry without cover with fist burst very often so it can more reliably deny infantry advance. So each vehicle has slightly different purpose.

Chance must be equal....

Funny I don't remember you ever call for buffing Jeep back in times when it was a pea shooter .

2) 50 cal. inf doc, the supression have been added for 30 cal., same must happen to 50 cal.

The .50cal on Jeep is more accurate than .30cal (at least at closer ranges), it also deals more damage but has very very weak suppression. The thing is that when any weapon shoots at suppressed infantry the weapon gets nerfs - primarily to the speed it builds up further suppression. However when the infantry gets pinned down, there are strong nerfs even to damage and accuracy (but the infantry can't do anything in return). Since the .50cal Jeep is more accurate and has more damage, the fact that it doesn't suppress infantry can be actually viewed as a good thing since it doesn't apply on itself the nerfs associated with suppressed infantry.

3) Airborne Jeep - thats so god damn broken, armor is just messed up, it cant be seriously damaged by 20mm base flaks, but dies with a burst of stationary mg42, usually one shoted by 37mm pak, but can bounce off 28mm spz pretty often (though this cannon have better penetration) and once i even seen how this Jeep bounced off Pak 38 shell lol. Ostwind HE shell - no damage.

I think you've reported this bug already, or am I wrong? Nevertheless I have a fix ready and it will be applied in the upcoming patch.

Must recieve supression..

Same as above but AB Jeep can use the advantege even more because it cannot be damaged by small arms.

4) Rocket Jeep - unit actually makes very little sense, cause this barrage is so weak, maximum result you can get is killling crew of something and the cost of it tadaaaam 55 ammo, HUGE overprice for such a fireworks unit, 35 ammo is fair price i think.

Killng crew of something is sometimes all you need to create a hole in a defense and push through...though I wouldn't object if the price was to be lowered.

I'm quite surprised that there is no change suggested for RL Jeep .

[Warhawks97]

Not sure about this one...Jeep is more durable under fire however it takes longer to suppress infantry (or when you decided to compare to Schwimm/Bike - Jeep's .30 cal is weaker against infantry than Bike/Schwimm) and infantry in green cover can take the Jeep out. Schwimm suppresses and schreds infantry without cover with fist burst very often so it can more reliably deny infantry advance. So each vehicle has slightly different purpose.

Might be so. However it is stupid a bit. Make schwimms and jeeps more vulnerable to small arms fire. For the jeep efficency vs inf in the open there is space upwards. The damage (per bullet) is still way less as those of schwimms etc. You made allis HMG bullets actually as strong as axis HMG bullets. So jeep here wouldnt be a problem i think. But the extrem durability vs rifle fire is quite nasty.

The .50cal on Jeep is more accurate than .30cal (at least at closer ranges), it also deals more damage but has very very weak suppression. The thing is that when any weapon shoots at suppressed infantry the weapon gets nerfs - primarily to the speed it builds up further suppression. However when the infantry gets pinned down, there are strong nerfs even to damage and accuracy (but the infantry can't do anything in return). Since the .50cal Jeep is more accurate and has more damage, the fact that it doesn't suppress infantry can be actually viewed as a good thing since it doesn't apply on itself the nerfs associated with suppressed infantry.

I know that suppression/pin reduces damage. However i prefer in first place to suppress infantry with MG´s coz then it might survive longer but cant do anything so then its just a matter of time untill it dies. AT the other hand it helps also the player which inf is being suppressed coz then this inf squad can draw MG fire while flanking with anoter unit is possible. So if all mounted cal 50´s have veery little suppression than i would say it should get fixed. Same btw for some single barreld 20 mm canons. Base def, Opel blitz, def doc stationary 20 mm, 251/17. Fix the suppression values there as well.

I think you've reported this bug already, or am I wrong? Nevertheless I have a fix ready and it will be applied in the upcoming patch.

good.

I'm quite surprised that there is no change suggested for RL Jeep .

why? I seldomly see this unit being used. Whats wrong with it?

[MarKr]

I know that suppression/pin reduces damage. However i prefer in first place to suppress infantry with MG´s...

Then build .30cal Jeep. If .50cal Jeep also gets suppression it will only become a deadlier version of the .30cal Jeep (especially the AB armored version) with the same purpose as normal Jeep so why would then anybody build the .30cal version?

why? I seldomly see this unit being used. Whats wrong with it?

Nothing is wrong as far as I know. Sukin listed every other version of Jeep and made suggestions for improving their performance, you also say that it is seldom used, so I just expected some suggestion in this area too.

[Warhawks97]

I know that suppression/pin reduces damage. However i prefer in first place to suppress infantry with MG´s...

Then build .30cal Jeep. If .50cal Jeep also gets suppression it will only become a deadlier version of the .30cal Jeep (especially the AB armored version) with the same purpose as normal Jeep so why would then anybody build the .30cal version?

The cal 30 is available after first building, the cal 50 needs second building but is currently not better as cal 30 (even if it kills inf faster what i dont even belive people prefer against inf suppression so that they cant keep heading forward to throw/shoot stuff. So yeah, it would be a better cal 30 and thats correct since it comes one tier later:P

But speaking about cal 50 in general. When they have somehow very low suppression compared to normal mgs (which i strongly belive) then they should get fixed suppression. Same for some single barrel 20 mm like those n opel blitz or so. Would increase tactical value, reduce arcade style, more realistic.

why? I seldomly see this unit being used. Whats wrong with it?

Nothing is wrong as far as I know. Sukin listed every other version of Jeep and made suggestions for improving their performance, you also say that it is seldom used, so I just expected some suggestion in this area too.

^^.. I honestly dont know how it could get improved. Only maybe being one tier earlier availble since it is not a better version of cal 30 jeep but instead a completely different unit. Cost also 5 fuel so building it would delay WSC. Its up to you what to do with it.