About Pak43 (WH defdoc)...

Do you have a balancing problem or do you want to make a suggestion for the game? You are at the right place.
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XAHTEP39
Posts: 220
Joined: 09 May 2015, 12:34
Location: Saint-Peterburg, Russia

About Pak43 (WH defdoc)...

Post by XAHTEP39 »

Axis have four Paks, which is moved by crewans: 37-mm Pak35/36 (~500 kg), 50-mm Pak38 (~1000 kg), 75-mm Pak40 (~1500 kg) and 88-mm Pak43 (~4500 kg :!: ).
Ok, Pak35/36, Pak38 is really to move by crewman (more than 2 crewmans, but it is really);
Pak40/QF17pound/M5 is huge and it needs transport for move their but it`s balanced for game assumption;
I mark last Pak43, because it`s really very massive and heavy weight (repeat - ~4500 kg!), it is unmovable by crewman strictly...
Therefore, my suggestion about 88-mm Pak43:
1) Pak43 must be fortified emplacement ONLY (such as Pak40/Flak36), which constructs by engineers;
2) Before battle player may to choose (rewarded unit) - emplacemet of Flak36 (AA-AT with circular firing, support at distance by special abilities of any units) or Pak43 (only AT with sector firing (such Pak40 emplacement), but more penetration and powerfull then Flak36, support at distance by special abilities of any units). It`s really, becouse in current Command Point tree Pak43 and Flak36 opens at the same time;
2.1) Flak36 without fortification in "easy buildings" is untouched and saved.
3) (optionally) There is two models of 88-mm Pak43 - with sector firing (Pak43/41, In the foreground) and with circular firing (Pak43, in the background)
Image
Maybe reward Flak36 by second Pak43 with circular firing, but it is a balancing and models question.
Last edited by XAHTEP39 on 16 May 2015, 16:33, edited 2 times in total.

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Warhawks97
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Re: About Pak43 (WH defdoc)...

Post by Warhawks97 »

nice idea to be honest and would support it. Emplaced pak 43 with fire angel (though possible to turn arround like other pak emplacments) might be possible. The pak with 360 degree turn is porbably not available as model.
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Wake
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Re: About Pak43 (WH defdoc)...

Post by Wake »

I think it's fine, in light of the crew size and all the other weapon weights.

17 Pounder weighs 3000 kg
76mm AT gun weighs 2200 kg

The 120mm Grw 42 Mortar from Scorched Earth weighs 280 kg, and yet the man who carries it simply slings it over his shoulder like it's a rifle.

But notice, all of these weapon crews have 5 men, which I think is supposed to simulate that, while moving, all 5 men would be helping to push the AT gun or carry the mortar. They still get guns because when the weapon is stationary, they can fire their rifles. But let's be honest, the other 3 people who aren't firing the AT gun or mortar and just get k98s or Carbines, they are pretty useless at killing anything themselves.

Besides, all the "heavy" AT guns move incredibly slow. PaK 43 is the slowest unit in game. Snipers or scouts in evasive camouflage mode can crawl twice as fast.

And also, don't forget, it is also "simulated" that the weapon crew carries additional ammunition. A 120mm mortar shell weighs 16kg, and every 17 pounder shell weighs 8 kg.
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XAHTEP39
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Location: Saint-Peterburg, Russia

Re: About Pak43 (WH defdoc)...

Post by XAHTEP39 »

Warhawks97 wrote:... Emplaced pak 43 with fire angel (though possible to turn arround like other pak emplacments) might be possible. The pak with 360 degree turn is probably not available as model.

Yes, I know, that issue of new models is not easy. Likely very powerfull 88-mm Pak43 fotificate emplacement with circular firing is unbalanced, therefore there is no reason for creation this model.
But Pak43/41 emplacement with sector firing and with possible to turn around manually is balanced, because you must to control flang enemys attack and Pak43 is fixed position.

Wake wrote:I think it's fine, in light of the crew size and all the other weapon weights.

17 Pounder weighs 3000 kg
76mm AT gun weighs 2200 kg

The 120mm Grw 42 Mortar from Scorched Earth weighs 280 kg, and yet the man who carries it simply slings it over his shoulder like it's a rifle.

But notice, all of these weapon crews have 5 men, which I think is supposed to simulate that, while moving, all 5 men would be helping to push the AT gun or carry the mortar. They still get guns because when the weapon is stationary, they can fire their rifles. But let's be honest, the other 3 people who aren't firing the AT gun or mortar and just get k98s or Carbines, they are pretty useless at killing anything themselves.

Besides, all the "heavy" AT guns move incredibly slow. PaK 43 is the slowest unit in game. Snipers or scouts in evasive camouflage mode can crawl twice as fast.

And also, don't forget, it is also "simulated" that the weapon crew carries additional ammunition. A 120mm mortar shell weighs 16kg, and every 17 pounder shell weighs 8 kg.

I agree that it is just a game and many moments are simulated. And it is good, that heavy weight guns (75/76-mm Paks, 107/120-mm mortars) has 5 crewmans, which "imitate" carrying of ammunition.

In ideal case, in addition of Pak43, Pak40/17Pound/M5 should to be in all doctrines as fortificate emplacement (and rewarded before battle on Halftrucks with Paks), but I suspect that mobile Pak40/17Pound/M5 is necessary balanced moment.

Wake wrote:But let's be honest, the other 3 people who aren't firing the AT gun or mortar and just get k98s or Carbines, they are pretty useless at killing anything themselves.

Hmm, it is "better something than nothing" ;) And if powerfull inf.squad with automatical guns (such as Rangers, PE paratroops) takes empty Pak, then it is a good defenders of Pak :D

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