Stuh, Stupa, Scott

[DaŇjeL_SK]

This is video recorded by Zadoff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_gFO5hblUs

[Redgaarden]

Personally I really dont hate these vehicles because I never had problems with them. But if you're going to convert them to arty pieces they would become the same as the useless RE arty tanks. Well technally speaking the 90mm cannon churchill destory 88's with two hits, and they would lose their frontline direct fire support which is probably why they were build in the first place. i suggest you could make their shots a little delayed like when you fire the 105's at minimum range, if I may say so it looks stupid, that way it would be totaly useless vs moving tanks (Like your backwards rolling pz Iv) And charging infantry too. since stuh's and stupas are the only arty I can't dodge with my infantry (and stukas becasue they make no noise) And while we're at it we could boost the fire rate a little bit with this huge nerf to make it even better vs emplacements.



So in hindsight it would become alot better vs non moving targets and worse against moving targets

looking forward to ya guys replies.

[Warhawks97]

This is video recorded by Zadoff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_gFO5hblUs

will, this is the usually stupid use of stuhs and stupas. Using it as assault force, driving to close. Longe time ago when i played against one of my traines at duclair we (me and my mate crixus) killed 4 of them without a single loss of our units because he just used this tank driving always into paks and ambushed AT squads.

Smart players have:

50 mm and/or one IV/70 to avoid that
AT squad/grens with schrecks arround, usually in front of that tank
Spotters



If you look at map he simply forgets about all his other units left behing and he belives that he can win the game with one single unit (which sometimes even works).


Finally i helped to discover a bug regarding the stupa: Skirts do make the Tank a lot more vulnerbale! Will be fixed in next patch. So without skirts its currently much harder to penetrate currently. So it dies fast due to a bug of skirts!

76 gun with HVAP pen chance vs Stupa from close to max range:

No skirts:
0.539/0.452/0.361/0.291

with skirts:
1.38/1.16/0.928/0.748

when stupa has skirts then the 76 serman kills it much easier as a Tank IV. Its probably beside vehicles the easiest target for 76 sherman. But without skirts its harder to penetrated than a Tiger and with next patch and bug fix the stupa will be even harder to kill.


So a bug + very silly use here made the unit looking stupid and pointless. But when you play against guys like loki and some others then he traps you all the time. He shoots your tanks with it untill you decide to attack him and then he rushes forward his AT sqauds (or having a Jagdpanzer IV/A behind it with Panther canon). The you just dont know how to kill it sometimes.
and wtf.... 5 stupas in like 35 minutes?! In a 2 vs 2 game (autry has even the lowest MP income so far of all 2 vs 2 maps).

[Wolf]

I don't think these values are correct at all, they are definitely not real penetrations.

[Warhawks97]

I don't think these values are correct at all, they are definitely not real penetrations.

Well, then you need to speak with markr. I thought he did already. The values without skirts would make sense. 0.35 basic penetration makes sense as it is the same as against Panther without skirts.

[Wolf]

We did talk about it, but I did not confirm that it wasn't working properly. There might be bug, but with other values / skirts being useless.

Okay I get now where you got the numbers, I missed that "HVAP" previously, so it might be right, but the second row is really not correct - not in game, you could have clearly see that, as it would mean more than 100% pen on mid distance, which is definitely not the case.

[JimQwilleran]

I think that Red made a very good point about Hawks suggestion. Hmm, what if we combine current state with Hawks idea? We could give Stupa two fire modes:
1: Mobile mode - Stupa don't fire automatically at incoming units but has "barrage" ability just like 90mm Churchill
2: Stationary mode - works like in stubby panzer IV - can't move, but fire at incoming enemy units.
Switching modes would take cooldown like for example firefly

In this way we could make Stupa more defensive than offensive weapon without making it less effective, while it will be more vulnerable to enemy attacks in stationary mode (so no more OP range).

[Warhawks97]

I think that Red made a very good point about Hawks suggestion. Hmm, what if we combine current state with Hawks idea? We could give Stupa two fire modes:
1: Mobile mode - Stupa don't fire automatically at incoming units but has "barrage" ability just like 90mm Churchill
2: Stationary mode - works like in stubby panzer IV - can't move, but fire at incoming enemy units.
Switching modes would take cooldown like for example firefly

In this way we could make Stupa more defensive than offensive weapon without making it less effective, while it will be more vulnerable to enemy attacks in stationary mode (so no more OP range).

well, my idea was that scott, stuh and stupa could be used in two ways in order to prevent "arty for free", "outranging tanks" and "forcing the enemie to attack me so that he runs into an ambush". The idea was to give them simply normal tank ranges. But to fill their role as assault tanks they would receive a small and short ranged barrage (2-4 shots) so that they can weaken enemie defense and taking out the one or other pak. The range of these barrages would be just slightly more than paks range and their cooldowns longer as those of normal arty units so that they dont replace howitzers etc. So when they have taken out the paks then they can attack together with infantry etc supporting those to take out MG´s and other stuff. But that way this "arty for free" (stuh and stupa are arty for free as they can shoot the defense from save distance without paying any ammo. Only mortars are capable of doing so but they have no "direct shooting" on enemie units and are less powerfull).

The stupa and stuh should more focussed on supporting assault infantry bt also armored forces. Scott more a support for armor in its doc more based on flexibility and less on powerfull breakthroughs with bit armor and big gun.

The stuh and stupa could also receive similiar abilities the stug III has with smoke launcher and "assault ability" boosting nearby inf. The massive shells, the armor and abilties would then make these units very usefull in supporting infantry in assaults by being weak if used alone without any support.

And why should stupa be improved in their defense capabilties? why should it even stay in DEF doc? Its an assault tank. the word "Stupa" means "Sturmpanzer". I think i dont have to explain further what it means. And if you look at the Command tree of def doc then it makes even less sense. First two tankhunters are being unlocked which are best use as defensive vehicles, then an Heavy assault tank that is actually supposed to be purely offensive and finally a heavy armor long range tankdestroyer. It doesnt makes sense at all. Same as the reward: A assault tank replaces a Self-propelled howitzer made for indirect fire support which stucks in an unlock tree of tankbusters.

In this regard the def doc the def doc needs an small ugently unlock-line rework and stupa maybe a new doc even.


This stationary mode doesnt sounds that bad but is it needed? What would be the range in stationary mode? Still an outrange monster? How many shots one barrage in mobile mode?

[ShadowIchigo]

Personally I really dont hate these vehicles because I never had problems with them. But if you're going to convert them to arty pieces they would become the same as the useless RE arty tanks. Well technally speaking the 90mm cannon churchill destory 88's with two hits, and they would lose their frontline direct fire support which is probably why they were build in the first place. i suggest you could make their shots a little delayed like when you fire the 105's at minimum range, if I may say so it looks stupid, that way it would be totaly useless vs moving tanks (Like your backwards rolling pz Iv) And charging infantry too. since stuh's and stupas are the only arty I can't dodge with my infantry (and stukas becasue they make no noise) And while we're at it we could boost the fire rate a little bit with this huge nerf to make it even better vs emplacements.



So in hindsight it would become alot better vs non moving targets and worse against moving targets

looking forward to ya guys replies.

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