Stuh, Stupa, Scott

[Warhawks97]

I guess everybody knows that i dont like these units simply because of their range. The purpose was to make these units "more usefull in assaults as anti defensive weapons" but the opposite is the case. Esspecially stuhs are mainly in defenses covered by half dozens paks and mgs and used to weaken enemie assaults (or killing them already) before they have a chance to to anything. But also to shoot from the own lines against enemie lines which is in my opinion "arty for free" and forces opponents to attack (and thus running into all the paks etc) or to use heavy arty (results in arty complains).

Moments like this do bother me:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=503

here a scott shoots against a panther and immoblizing those and the Panther has not even a chance to return fire nor to get repaired as scott keeps shooting untill tank is down (note that HE´s do always damage against tanks). So when one of these three units do a lucky shoot and immobilizing tanks like expensive pershings, churchills, aces, Tigers or Panthers it can be really nasty as this means the death for them usually and these three units (equiped with stubby short range canons and close range fire support) killing tanks at ranges where those cant reach them even (although they are equiped with long range guns, eg: Panther in this case). This simply sucks (Esspecially since we talk about more realistic tank ranges in another topic: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=504)



So i have some goals here:
1. Removing " arty for free" (stuh, stupa). Units that bomb enemie defense while staying out of defensive weapon range is actually artillery.
2. Avoid that Stubby canons for close range purpose outrange tanks made for long range fight in direct fireing (see scott vs panther).
3. removing "forcing enemie to attack so that he runs straight into an ambush". Thats possible when stupa and stuh can outrange paks and every available defense. It forces the opponent to react and to kill these units. A famous combo is/was stupa+schreck squad+ Jagdpanzer IV/A. Stupa makes the opponent attacking-> IV/A and schrecks killing all enemie tanks that try to kill stupa.
4. Also i will try to maintain stuhs,stupas,scotts role in taking out defenses and assault and inf support tank in case of stupa and stuh.


So here my suggestion:

1. Stupas, stuhs and scotts direct fireing range decreased to 60-65 (range of most tanks in game)
2. arty barrage available for scott, stuh, stupa: The range of this ability would be 85-95 or 95-105 (Pak ranges are currently 75) and maybe depending on the unit but 85-90 should be enough as they shouldnt act like normal arty and more "close range support". The number of fired shots would be 2 for stupa, 3 for stuh and 4 for scott. Cost for the barrage would be 90 for stupa (2 rounds), 50 for stuh and 40 for scott. Also smoke rounds could be fired with slightly more range and cheap cost giving new tactical options (right now only 60 mm inf mortar available for armor doc to fire smoke on a certain position (at least scott could do so and stuh iirc as well. Stupa not sure).
3. The barrage accuracy would not be as good as normal arty barrages but accurate enough to hit and destroy emplacments and paks.
4. Stuh would receive the "assault ability" for 25 ammo. Its the same stug III has currently and description says that it buffs nearby grens and stormtoopers.


I think that would solve some issues here. The Tanks would NOT ourtange tanks anymore in direct engagment but the small and short ranged arty ability would maintain the units role. The units would then - after enemie defense is damaged by short arty barrage- able to support the assault units further bombing remaining defense from normal range. I think that would make these units more interesting, new tactics created and this silly "camping arround and bombing the enemie for free" wouldnt work anymore. Also the barrages alone wouldnt take out/hit or damage single tanks effectively. Also defenses would mainly be damaged by a barrage but not destroyed (except stupa makes a lucky direct hit) and so an assault would follow in order to take maximum advantage of the spend ammo. Otherwise the cost for the barrages would be wasted and defenses repaired. The cooldown would be a bit longer as those of other artillery to avoid "overuse".

[JimQwilleran]

100% agree!

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I think this units got their perfect role in last updates, long range support with poor accuracy, neither OP, nore underperfoming, its fine. I especially like to combine scott + Jackson + m4 HE + command vehicle, most axis players usually strugles so much with beating this combination.

Btw Mark, tell pls what range have Jackson in lock down mode and command vehicle range bonuse? 80-85? Really effective Kitties smasher. Yesterday destroyed 5 tigers with it on Wolfheze lol .

[Krieger Blitzer]

In my humble opinion, I believe that this topic now is expired As that u have already introduced these ideas specifically about the Stupa while having very long discussions with Wolf before since the last patch but u got all his answers already more than a time... No change would be made regarding this! So don't waste ur time mate.. ^^

[Warhawks97]

I think this units got their perfect role in last updates, long range support with poor accuracy, neither OP, nore underperfoming, its fine. I especially like to combine scott + Jackson + m4 HE + command vehicle, most axis players usually strugles so much with beating this combination.

Btw Mark, tell pls what range have Jackson in lock down mode and command vehicle range bonuse? 80-85? Really effective Kitties smasher. Yesterday destroyed 5 tigers with it on Wolfheze lol .

still you dont get it. I dont say the unit itself is OP. Just how they are being used: Sitting arround, placing 5 paks and aa tanks arround..... and lets bomb the enemie for free and drinking tea while doing so. So even when every second shot fails on max range.... it will just take abit longer to destroy the entire army and when those attack the stuh they lose all units in pak wall, aa tanks and 88´s.

And then these tanks do outrange every tank with a good chance to immobilize and once immobilized they get killed sonner or later. And this is why i would add a barrage ability (2-4 shots) so that these units can still break defenses without being able to outrange every tank and without having these units as "arty for free" which is unfair since all others must pay ammo to use arty and to destroy enemie defenses. But who cares.... right? Arty for Free is ok.. nothing bad on it.... esspecially since arty got extremly limited.....

[DaŇjeL_SK]

I think this units got their perfect role in last updates, long range support with poor accuracy, neither OP, nore underperfoming, its fine. I especially like to combine scott + Jackson + m4 HE + command vehicle, most axis players usually strugles so much with beating this combination.

Btw Mark, tell pls what range have Jackson in lock down mode and command vehicle range bonuse? 80-85? Really effective Kitties smasher. Yesterday destroyed 5 tigers with it on Wolfheze lol .

We already finished game, where Zandolf killed my full health panzer4 H with scoot... by riding forward and backround.... it is so unreal.
So here we are.... I killed jumbo, but I wasn't able to kill scott, which killed me.... and it happened very quickly... I was driving backward, but u know how is it going with that drunk drivers in game... I started falling back when I had more than half of health... and I lost the tank anyway. So now I am with Hawks.... especially scott work very stupid way in mod.

[Warhawks97]

I think this units got their perfect role in last updates, long range support with poor accuracy, neither OP, nore underperfoming, its fine. I especially like to combine scott + Jackson + m4 HE + command vehicle, most axis players usually strugles so much with beating this combination.

Btw Mark, tell pls what range have Jackson in lock down mode and command vehicle range bonuse? 80-85? Really effective Kitties smasher. Yesterday destroyed 5 tigers with it on Wolfheze lol .

We already finished game, where Zandolf killed my full health panzer4 H with scoot... by riding forward and backround.... it is so unreal.
So here we are.... I killed jumbo, but I wasn't able to kill scott, which killed me.... and it happened very quickly... I was driving backward, but u know how is it going with that drunk drivers in game... I started falling back when I had more than half of health... and I lost the tank anyway. So now I am with Hawks.... especially scott work very stupid way in mod.

ive seen the stream.... the scott killed your tank Iv which got immobilized and the Tank couldnt do anything against this silly stubby canon unit. This is why i hate all these super range units. You just dont know what to do.... attack and drive into pak or attack not and get immobilized and killed anway. Just hilarious this outrange stuff. A short barrge ability as suggested would be a way more balanced: chance to miss, ammo cost instead arty for free, still able to crush defenses or weakening these but also able to to close fire support against MG emplacments and enemie inf etc.

[lunarwolf]

stop flooding these forums with useless suggestions, seriously how many have you made in the last week? Stupa and Stuh have had so many threads and this topic has been covered to death already.

it seems anytime you encounter a difficulty it needs to be nerfed, but you never consider changing your playstyle. it's like that time you were complaining about playing against guys who had 2 x 88 in front of their base. after that nonsense I cannot take anything you say seriously

[Warhawks97]

stop flooding these forums with useless suggestions, seriously how many have you made in the last week? Stupa and Stuh have had so many threads and this topic has been covered to death already.

it seems anytime you encounter a difficulty it needs to be nerfed, but you never consider changing your playstyle. it's like that time you were complaining about playing against guys who had 2 x 88 in front of their base. after that nonsense I cannot take anything you say seriously

i stopped playing as allis.... i dont face it anymore.... i use it by myself. I am now known as "gay 88 spammer noob" and i used in only 1 out of 5 games as LUFT doc luft inf. I only used sd2, vampire and 88´s. A game lost at wolfheze against CW arty, armor doc and RAF was won just because ive got an 88 covered by scout vehicle (later AA tank) and thus my SE mate could get his hummel to smash the priests shooting my 88´s. And the RAF player was shadowichigo, the best RAF player so far which ive never seen giving up a game. He never loses the confidence a game with RAF but in two games against my 88´s he have up. He really gave up although he usually finds till end seeing always a chance to win and he is really a great player (with RAF). I received many complains in steam and nobody wants to play against me when i play axis just because i am a "noob 88 spammer". When i talked to several guys in steam they called my style (and the units like unemplaced 88 and sd2) as "anti-social", "unfair" and "noob style" or "Takoz style" (takoz is a player playing axis HR with his team and camping a lot).

Thing is -and thats what i told to devs already- that skilled axis playing isnt really awarded and i found myself that silly low skill defensive spam (esspecially using super range units pared with little protection like paks and AA tanks) is a way easier to win but also by far less exhausting than having 3 stormtooper squads, one storm HT and one Panther at max level after several hours of game and each storm unit (including leader squad) with more than 100 inf kills. Its not worth to play so skilled anymore as pure defense spam+ super range units is lot easier to win (and when enemies have no CW arty they often give up after 1 hour of usless attempts to break such def somehow which happend in my last two games where i simply spammend def stuff.... my opponents gave up after more than 1 hour).

[lunarwolf]

lol, you never stop. 1 flame round/air burst from priest will take out a 88. so your friend should be upset with his partner. also RAF staffing run decrew 88 with insane ease. I guess they aren't that good if they don't know this already.

anyway this does not change the fact that STuh, and Stupa have been discussed to death and since changed. unfortunately the old forums aren't accessible anymore.

and stop tooting your own horn you aren't as skilled as you pretend, I've seen some of your replays

also I have no idea what you are on about Axis defensive spam no skill. Infantry Doc and CW have very good emplacements as well. a couple of 27 pounder will halt any axis tank advance in its tracks and they are cheaper than 88. therefore on a map like wolfheze with moderate/low fuel they can spam them a lot more than Axis

[JimQwilleran]

lol, you never stop. 1 flame round/air burst from priest will take out a 88. so your friend should be upset with his partner. also RAF staffing run decrew 88 with insane ease. I guess they aren't that good if they don't know this already.

Even if u kill the crew, enemy can use that 88 again in matter of few seconds. The problem is that the only thing that can kill 88 is arty. But when CW arty player has to face SE player (who has 2x more SP guns), it is really hard to give your team mates support without being bombed by Hummels. Also it's a stupidity to attack AA gun with a plane -_-.

anyway this does not change the fact that STuh, and Stupa have been discussed to death and since changed. unfortunately the old forums aren't accessible anymore.

I don't care if it has already been discussed. Many things have changed in the mod since then, and I agree with Hawks in the matter of Stupa etc. Things that matter are now.

and stop tooting your own horn you aren't as skilled as you pretend, I've seen some of your replays

Oh yea? Please show us your exceptional skill! Oh, sorry I forgot, you are just a pitiful compstomper... I don't understand why do you post anything on this forum. Your stats are 1121:1. It's clear that you use that game for a callow fun like a 14 yo, not for serious games like most of the people here. Yet you tend to scream loud anytime somebody wants to change something... Either start playing this game serious or stop thinking you can affect this mod. Do I have to remind you that this mod is balanced toward PvP? In my opinion you should apologize Warhawks, because he is the one of the guys who's contribution to this mod is huge, he has been there for a long time.

If u don't like the idea of the topic, fine, but stop insulting player that has way higher skills than you.

[lunarwolf]

Also it's a stupidity to attack AA gun with a plane -_-.

try it and you might learn something.

BTW you know nothing of my skill level or lack of since we have never played together. anyway I am not the one pretending that I am skilled. seems to be you are more guilty of that than myself. also nice of you to check my stats, as you can see not all are compstomp :p. the reason I like compstomp better is because it is more friendly atmosphere, less raging (which you seem to fit the criteria since you have just posted to insult me and not even cover the topic at hand), and finally drop exploit. You can also get off your high horse vs compstompers, because the units are the exactly the same. furthermore I have been playing this mod for years, in fact since it was launched years ago, I think that qualifies as serious commitment to this mod.

and back on topic Stuh and Stupa have been discussed to death, and changed to most people's satisfaction. there is no point re-discussing this, because there is nothing new to discuss. there are many other units with high range as well, quad 50cal, scott/Jackson combo, firefly etc... we learn to adapt to deal with them

[Warhawks97]

which 27 pounder? We dont have 27 pounders.

And no.... ask some players, 25 pdr etc does little damage. Also off map inf 105 does little damage, 105 arty sherman need three barrages to score 3 hits and well.... i faced many CW arty players but thing is that it usually only decrew an 88 but usually the team just has to stay arround the 88´s (Pios, some inf, AA tanks, sd2). In the game at wolfheze the Priest only only decrewed the 88 but we could recrew them fast. They destroyed only 3 88´s (two of them with rocket strike) but most airplanes got shot doen by base AA or the AA tanks from BK doc player). 88´s got decrewed a few times but the AA tanks, grens etc could protect them. And finally our Hummels managed to counter priest when those shot at my 88´s. Even when the 88 got decrewed with calli/priest combo the enemie had to lay back a range of 100! Before enemie could cover that distance a counter attack with nearby deployed AA tanks and schreck squad bought enough time to recrew and repair the 88´s. I am usually dropping a belt of sd2 mines arround my 88´s as cover (approx 50-100 range away from 88) so the enemie assault ran into sd2 and 88 fire at the same time.


quad cal 50 has not more range than other vehicles. firefly and Jacks thing is discussed in "Tank range " Topic. But Jacks and firefly need lot of protection against infantry doing a rush in them with schrecks and a jacks cost as much as a panther almost.

Too bad that you dont play games with us.

(If you play vs lets say 3 bots on a map with 4 slots, leaving the last slot on bot side open and playing then together with a mate then the game is count as pvp match (Basic Match) and not as compstomp game (Skirmish). That way a few guys i knew faked their pvp stats)

[Krieger Blitzer]

I can remember that I had a game vs Hawks few weeks ago on the map Wolfheze '3vs3 version' when he played Luft on pos4 and I faced him with Armor doc on pos3.

It was more or less like a 1vs1 actually... And I think when it comes to be about 1v1s, Hawks won't really fit then with any doc as I do believe, because he never plays such battle types for some of his own reasons.. however that they lost badly at the end although that he kept spamming those nasty 88s. It wasn't that hard to be honest to clear off his 88s as I used snipers, Scotts, AT teams and arty support by Vet tank commanders instead of SP cuz I didn't really feel I was anyhow in need for it as I already had enough plenty of fuel to keep flooding E8s and Jacksons instead.. and so I saved my CPs for the arty tree of the Armor doc! Snipers killed the crew in the help of spotters then quickly I attacked the already de-crewed flak by using Scotts and the AT squads clicking on the 'attack move ability' just straight on it while erasing it easily like if it was just nothing but an empty useless pak left on the ground..
I am not saying that 88s are always easy to destroy as it usually depends on several factors such as the map, the situation and etc.. but it's still surely not true when to say that arty is the only way possible in order to kill them. That's my meant point...

I have always disliked the playing style of Brits generally as well as all the following docs; Def doc, SE doc, and Inf doc! They are all nasty in my opinion.
I admit that both the Def and the SE docs might be the most nasty ones through some occasions even more than the others. Yet; for sure u can't claim that playing as Axis is much easier!!! At all, specifically while playing with the other Axis docs.. it's usually very hard to play against Brits or Inf doc. Almost unbeatable whole defensive lines including decent emplacements that could be all built and also continuously repaired just in seconds due to the superiority of Allies engineers repairing capabilities for some unknown reasons. For example, isn't it ridiculous when to see that repairing a single Pz4 by 3 pioneer squads consisting each of 6 men while costing 160MP per each too.. is somehow yet taking much longer time to finish than to fix a SP by using only 2 'specialized' US engineering units each consisting of only 3 weak men and costing only 99MP???!!!

As I already mentioned before anyways... This topic is now exposed and I bet if Wolf would even pay any attention to it anyhow as he already discussed it several times in the past!

But let me repeat it again.. I will be posting an important topic soon after maybe about 2 weeks from now while collecting all the already reported bugs and the ideas suggested too by the players so that for all to become in a single one topic.

[Warhawks97]

I can remember that I had a game vs Hawks few weeks ago on the map Wolfheze '3vs3 version' when he played Luft on pos4 and I faced him with Armor doc on pos3.

It was more or less like a 1vs1 actually... And I think when it comes to be about 1v1s, Hawks won't really fit then with any doc as I do believe, because he never plays such battle types for some of his own reasons.. however that they lost badly at the end although that he kept spamming those nasty 88s. It wasn't that hard to be honest to clear off his 88s as I used snipers, Scotts, AT teams and arty support by Vet tank commanders instead of SP cuz I didn't really feel I was anyhow in need for it as I already had enough plenty of fuel to keep flooding E8s and Jacksons instead.. and so I saved my CPs for the arty tree of the Armor doc! Snipers killed the crew in the help of spotters then quickly I attacked the already de-crewed flak by using Scotts and the AT squads clicking on the 'attack move ability' just straight on it while erasing it easily like if it was just nothing but an empty useless pak left on the ground..
I am not saying that 88s are always easy to destroy as it usually depends on several factors such as the map, the situation and etc.. but it's still surely not true when to say that arty is the only way possible in order to kill them. That's my meant point...

I have always disliked the playing style of Brits generally as well as all the following docs; Def doc, SE doc, and Inf doc! They are all nasty in my opinion.
I admit that both the Def and the SE docs might be the most nasty ones through some occasions even more than the others. Yet; for sure u can't claim that playing as Axis is much easier!!! At all, specifically while playing with the other Axis docs.. it's usually very hard to play against Brits or Inf doc. Almost unbeatable whole defensive lines including decent emplacements that could be all built and also continuously repaired just in seconds due to the superiority of Allies engineers repairing capabilities for some unknown reasons. For example, isn't it ridiculous when to see that repairing a single Pz4 by 3 pioneer squads consisting each of 6 men while costing 160MP per each too.. is somehow yet taking much longer time to finish than to fix a SP by using only 2 'specialized' US engineering units each consisting of only 3 weak men and costing only 99MP???!!!

As I already mentioned before anyways... This topic is now exposed and I bet if Wolf would even pay any attention to it anyhow as he already discussed it several times in the past!

But let me repeat it again.. I will be posting an important topic soon after maybe about 2 weeks from now while collecting all the already reported bugs and the ideas suggested too by the players so that for all to become in a single one topic.

well. I am not sure but as i told to others already i do a "crusade" with the goal to bother everybody with 88´s with the purpose to make them raging in forum but also exploiting new tactics with luft as many complained that luft doc got too weak somewhow.... But they only write shitstorms to me in steam so my "crusade" is/was just partly successfull. This was my second one and yeah it was lost. But note that we had iirc no arty doc (def or se) and the inf doc player had to use all his arty (i saw several 105 iirc if we talk about the same game) to finally crack my 88 defense (i cant remember who played there but you had seargant and maeglin in your team right?). You should say that i was able to destroy your SP almost with my Panthers. Did you really use e8? I cant remember really. But the general exploitation of using alost only defensive stuff and 88´s is pretty well. I would say i lose 2 of 10 games when i spam 88´s. Depends a bit on teammates but when an SE player got the upper hand against priest or when ammo is not enough to kill my 88´s as fast as i can build them its a pretty sure win.


Also brits are my fav enemies with PE. Luft has nice sd2 which is very good against them and mortar HT. Se inf can compete with commandos (7 men, vet officer unlock, SE sniper and incendiary rounds make SE as one of my fav doc against brits). And inf doc is nasty? oO.... for me most nasty docs are CW arty and SE due to their crazy use of arty against everything when played by players using only the arty of these docs. SE due to 88 and sd2.

Inf doc in general is a good enemie as axis. Late Game tanks with top mounted MG´s smashing any inf away. Also AA tanks and sd2 can cause huge casaulties to inf doc. I played a game again with Bk doc last afternoon and i had only 2 stormtooper squads killing several rangers. The stormtooper leader squad alone killed severl iniltration ranger squads alone with just one single STG! The squad had 130 kills or so (lol). So inf doc is nothing really fearfull in late game. Maybe the long tom but everything else is... well only usefull in defense or as support for other players. But inf doc is everything but nasty and a nice enemie to vet up units (esspecially stormtooper squads and luft inf). the Late game AB blobb is a way more nasty than inf doc oO. My most nasty global abilities for me are SD 2 and sector arty and unit abilities the stationary mode on tanks and vehicles as they expand the range.

[DaŇjeL_SK]

I think this units got their perfect role in last updates, long range support with poor accuracy, neither OP, nore underperfoming, its fine. I especially like to combine scott + Jackson + m4 HE + command vehicle, most axis players usually strugles so much with beating this combination.

Btw Mark, tell pls what range have Jackson in lock down mode and command vehicle range bonuse? 80-85? Really effective Kitties smasher. Yesterday destroyed 5 tigers with it on Wolfheze lol .

We already finished game, where Zandolf killed my full health panzer4 H with scoot... by riding forward and backround.... it is so unreal.
So here we are.... I killed jumbo, but I wasn't able to kill scott, which killed me.... and it happened very quickly... I was driving backward, but u know how is it going with that drunk drivers in game... I started falling back when I had more than half of health... and I lost the tank anyway. So now I am with Hawks.... especially scott work very stupid way in mod.

ive seen the stream.... the scott killed your tank Iv which got immobilized and the Tank couldnt do anything against this silly stubby canon unit. This is why i hate all these super range units. You just dont know what to do.... attack and drive into pak or attack not and get immobilized and killed anway. Just hilarious this outrange stuff. A short barrge ability as suggested would be a way more balanced: chance to miss, ammo cost instead arty for free, still able to crush defenses or weakening these but also able to to close fire support against MG emplacments and enemie inf etc.

But my panzer4 wasn't immobile... I was close to my base (distance between base and panzer4 was similar to distance between panzer4 and scott), but scott destroyed more than half healt panzer4 faster, then I get back to base... and very stupid is one thing.... panzer4 had no chance to hit scott riding forward and backward...

... in that stream it wasn't my panther ?

[Warhawks97]

But my panzer4 wasn't immobile... I was close to my base (distance between base and panzer4 was similar to distance between panzer4 and scott), but scott destroyed more than half healt panzer4 faster, then I get back to base... and very stupid is one thing.... panzer4 had no chance to hit scott riding forward and backward...

... in that stream it wasn't my panther ?

it was a game at raffinery and sukin played RAF? There was a Panzer IV H that got engine damaged and immobilized and scott shot at it untill the Tank IV´s was dead.


And this forward backward thing.... i know that. I had a game few weeks ago and our inf doc player sucked so far (so no arty). I had a HE sherman and two 76 fighting enemie inf and vehicles together with my RAF mate and the stuh came. It shot our units and when i tried to attack the stuh drove behind the Gebirgs which scrwed me away (later there was also an 88 behind stuh). So i stopped the assault and when i did so and tried to escape the stuh made a shot and took more than 50% HP of my 76 sherman. And such things have nothing to do with "defense breaker" or "stuhs role to smash defenses" because we had not a single defensive unit. But whatever i or we did the stuh bombed our units dealing good damage to everything when hit and whenever we tried to attack it before it kills our units then grens with schrecks, gebirgs with faust (and later 88) prevented all attempts (we used M18, M10) to kill stuh.

[DaŇjeL_SK]

And what with field gun now ? It should be nerfed too, when u want to nerf stuh and scott.

[Warhawks97]

And what with field gun now ? It should be nerfed too, when u want to nerf stuh and scott.

The field gun is like an AT gun which outrange tanks for some reasons. Its afaik a tool for RAF to kill some emplacments (MGs, 20 mm). Reducing range would mean that the Mgs would kill this weapon as booth would have same range.


I´d really like to see tanks having same range as paks and this field gun. I havent made many experiences with that field gun. But yeah when tank is immobilized its easily killed by it, but same goes for paks. Immoblized tank vs pak means death for tank. Thing with stuhs and scotts is that they can move and shoot tanks untill those are down or cant move anymore and keeping out of their range at the same time (simply driving backward when tank closes in). The field howitzer cant escape from tank easily when those are not immobilized.


But yeah in general i agree with you and i´d like to see tanks having range of paks (or paks with tank range but then MG´s would shoot paks/field howitzer when those can shoot the mg and so the field howitzer would become pointless). Its a bit Tricky that range stuff.

[DaŇjeL_SK]

And what with field gun now ? It should be nerfed too, when u want to nerf stuh and scott.

The field gun is like an AT gun which outrange tanks for some reasons. Its afaik a tool for RAF to kill some emplacments (MGs, 20 mm). Reducing range would mean that the Mgs would kill this weapon as booth would have same range.


I´d really like to see tanks having same range as paks and this field gun. I havent made many experiences with that field gun. But yeah when tank is immobilized its easily killed by it, but same goes for paks. Immoblized tank vs pak means death for tank. Thing with stuhs and scotts is that they can move and shoot tanks untill those are down or cant move anymore and keeping out of their range at the same time (simply driving backward when tank closes in). The field howitzer cant escape from tank easily when those are not immobilized.


But yeah in general i agree with you and i´d like to see tanks having range of paks (or paks with tank range but then MG´s would shoot paks/field howitzer when those can shoot the mg and so the field howitzer would become pointless). Its a bit Tricky that range stuff.

It will not... paks have longer range than mgs... and show me tank except churchill and jumbo which are not able ride forward faster than stuh backward... most of time even jumbo is driving faster... so...
... when u want to nerf this gun or change mode of their firing, u should change them all... why should filedgun have longer range with accurate shooting than pak ?

[Warhawks97]

And what with field gun now ? It should be nerfed too, when u want to nerf stuh and scott.

The field gun is like an AT gun which outrange tanks for some reasons. Its afaik a tool for RAF to kill some emplacments (MGs, 20 mm). Reducing range would mean that the Mgs would kill this weapon as booth would have same range.


I´d really like to see tanks having same range as paks and this field gun. I havent made many experiences with that field gun. But yeah when tank is immobilized its easily killed by it, but same goes for paks. Immoblized tank vs pak means death for tank. Thing with stuhs and scotts is that they can move and shoot tanks untill those are down or cant move anymore and keeping out of their range at the same time (simply driving backward when tank closes in). The field howitzer cant escape from tank easily when those are not immobilized.


But yeah in general i agree with you and i´d like to see tanks having range of paks (or paks with tank range but then MG´s would shoot paks/field howitzer when those can shoot the mg and so the field howitzer would become pointless). Its a bit Tricky that range stuff.

It will not... paks have longer range than mgs... and show me tank except churchill and jumbo which are not able ride forward faster than stuh backward... most of time even jumbo is driving faster... so...
... when u want to nerf this gun or change mode of their firing, u should change them all... why should filedgun have longer range with accurate shooting than pak ?

You got me wrong. I said that i would prefer tanks having range of current paks.
Also those tanks who drive faster than stuh are also almost dead (often crit) by one stuh hit. And the range advantage is massive so stuh driving backwards should be able to make two shots (esspecially when it survives then the first hit from enemie tank).

[DaŇjeL_SK]

You got me wrong. I said that i would prefer tanks having range of current paks.
Also those tanks who drive faster than stuh are also almost dead (often crit) by one stuh hit. And the range advantage is massive so stuh driving backwards should be able to make two shots (esspecially when it survives then the first hit from enemie tank).

LOL.... but most of time is stuh killed by one shot by 76mm gun shermans, achilles atc... and u forgot stuh without vet hit one of two shots to ground... and most of vehicles didnt die by one shot.... only chance for stuh is immobilizer enemy tank

[Warhawks97]

You got me wrong. I said that i would prefer tanks having range of current paks.
Also those tanks who drive faster than stuh are also almost dead (often crit) by one stuh hit. And the range advantage is massive so stuh driving backwards should be able to make two shots (esspecially when it survives then the first hit from enemie tank).

LOL.... but most of time is stuh killed by one shot by 76mm gun shermans, achilles atc... and u forgot stuh without vet hit one of two shots to ground... and most of vehicles didnt die by one shot.... only chance for stuh is immobilizer enemy tank

yeah, same as scott. But in both cases the enemie has to decide what to do. Do nothing and lose the tank. Attack and risk to run into a pak. And when immobilized the tanks cant defend themself coz these short barrled tanks outrange them. Wasnt that what happend to you? check few posts above. You stated it by yourself.

[Krieger Blitzer]

LOL.... but most of time is stuh killed by one shot by 76mm gun shermans, achilles atc... and u forgot stuh without vet hit one of two shots to ground... and most of vehicles didnt die by one shot.... only chance for stuh is immobilizer enemy tank

While even according to realism.. this tank frontal armor should be standing better than Pz4s against 76s or Bazookas btw! Yet while being cheaper than them as well... Which is sadly not the case in Bk mod They are cheaper yes, but also weaker!!! This is not true. Completely FALSE!

[Warhawks97]

LOL.... but most of time is stuh killed by one shot by 76mm gun shermans, achilles atc... and u forgot stuh without vet hit one of two shots to ground... and most of vehicles didnt die by one shot.... only chance for stuh is immobilizer enemy tank

While even according to realism.. this tank frontal armor should be standing better than Pz4s against 76s or Bazookas btw! Yet while being cheaper than them as well... Which is sadly not the case in Bk mod They are cheaper yes, but also weaker!!! This is not true. Completely FALSE!

stuh stugs etc shared 80 mm armor with tank IV. Some stuhs of the earlier production had 60 mm armor like the early stug versions.

Cheaper, maybe and i would make them cheaper when they would have normal tank range and normal armor protection.



But realistic cost would mean that all turretless axis TH´s would be a way cheaper (still not as cheap as stugs). Panthers and jacks also cheaper. But cost of Tigers and heavier tanks would so high a lot more expensive even.


But stuhs had not more protection than tank IV. and its not as slopped as you may would think at first view. It has this "nose" but everything else on stug III is not slopped.