Range of tanks

[DaŇjeL_SK]

In earlier patches was range of german tanks nerfed. Now have only KwK43 longer range than allies tanks and only tankhunter can improve their range by stationary position. But on the other side of front can firefly use stationary position and every armor tank have improoved range by command car.
It is really anoying for bk doc for example... and it is historical mindfuck, because germans had much more accurate guns.
So I suggest add stationary position for every heavy tank (tiger, panther, pershing, jackson). It will be fair for both sides.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Agreed so far. I actually think that tigers and panthers must have just a few more range than other tanks, maybe +5, so it wouldnt be game breaking, but will give axis tanks a first shot advantage.

[Warhawks97]

m favorit option would actually be that all tanks with special gunsight upgrade would receive +2 or + 5 range. Stationary mode shouldnt increase the range but only spotting range and increased rof. Means actually every axis heavy tank and tankbuster would outrange any enemie armor except pershings actually.

Gunsight cost would increase from 75 to 100 ammo to upgrade (but spotting range buff, accuracy buff and range buff would be worth it for sure then). But also no Gunsight-> No range boost as a good gun isnt all to be an effective long range killer.

Also Panther A skirts by default and instead skirt upgrade gunsight upgrade? just asking.

The Tiger would receive stationary fire mode instead flank speed. I think the biggest advantage of tigers had been its armor and the ability to fight many enemie tanks at the same time snipping them out quickly over distance and not its speed.


the US armor doc command vehicle cost would drop from 350 to 300 or 275 ammo as this unit would become a way more important to armor doc playing then maybe even a central part in US armor doc strategy. Also the limit could be two instead one to have quickly a replacment as a single one would probably killed first by axis players. Abilties would not add to each other (means no double buff by using same ability twice).


edit: stupa, scott and stuhs will still be bullshit regarding range.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I would honestly like to do some changes on the Tiger tank btw!
All flank speed abilities should firstly become available literally for free (means ONLY to wait cool down) with all tanks which are already having it, starting from or talking about; the Slugger (The Jackson one with Wolverine chassis after engine upgrade), Cromwell, Hetzer, Comet (Only if currently it does also have it maybe?! idk..) etc exactly as mentioned... EXCEPT for the Tiger! The Tiger's flank speed ability should require veterancy level 2 instead of currently having access to it just after Vet lvl 1, as well as increasing the ability cost from 35 to 50 ammo. While also adding a price finally to the Tigerphobia ability of about 35 ammo as we could perhaps consider it being a part of the propaganda war! BUT on the other hand, the accurate long shot ability would now require only a single Vet step while decreasing its cost from 50 to 25 or 30 ammo exactly as the CW Sherman rockets. So u get both the flank speed and the Tigerphobia abilities on Vet lvl 2 but the accurate long shot on Vet lvl 1 from now on.

Not done yet... I think the KT Tigerphobia ability should then receive the same cost of the Tiger's 1 Tigerphobia, but the accurate long shot of it to become available at Vet lvl 2 as well instead of Vet lvl 3 currently with the same new cost decreasing too!!!

Rapid shooting ability should be also exclusive for Pershings only. The Panther could receive the same stationary position ability of Fireflys but after Vet lvl 1 or 2......

[Warhawks97]

I would honestly like to do some changes on the Tiger tank btw!
All flank speed abilities should firstly become available literally for free (means ONLY to wait cool down) with all tanks which are already having it, starting from or talking about; the Slugger (The Jackson one with Wolverine chassis after engine upgrade), Cromwell, Hetzer, Comet (Only if currently it does also have it maybe?! idk..) etc exactly as mentioned... EXCEPT for the Tiger! The Tiger's flank speed ability should require veterancy level 2 instead of currently having access to it just after Vet lvl 1, as well as increasing the ability cost from 35 to 50 ammo. While also adding a price finally to the Tigerphobia ability of about 35 ammo as we could perhaps consider it being a part of the propaganda war! BUT on the other hand, the accurate long shot ability would now require only a single Vet step while decreasing its cost from 50 to 25 or 30 ammo exactly as the CW Sherman rockets. So u get both the flank speed and the Tigerphobia abilities on Vet lvl 2 but the accurate long shot on Vet lvl 1 from now on.

Not done yet... I think the KT Tigerphobia ability should then receive the same cost of the Tiger's 1 Tigerphobia, but the accurate long shot of it to become available at Vet lvl 2 as well instead of Vet lvl 3 currently with the same new cost decreasing too!!!

Rapid shooting ability should be also exclusive for Pershings only. The Panther could receive the same stationary position ability of Fireflys but after Vet lvl 1 or 2......

hmmm.... dunno..... but what would you say about the other suggestions above?


and Tiger flank speed and Panther stationary mode?:D Panther was known also for the combo of firepower, frontal armor and the higher flexibility as other axis heavy tanks, And here Tiger will be "the fast one" and the Panther "stationary fortress"?..

Flank speeds should increase fuel upkeep by 1/3 as long as ability is in use.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Panthers already are fast. I don't like to see the flank speed ability being totally removed from the Tiger for several reasons... The Tiger will be able to use it after 2 Vet steps with a considerable (And I mean not a slight ability price increasing) increased cost being able to gain the speed of the Panther only for that short period of time! It's fine and much better then I believe, isn't it?!

@Hawks; better to just cost some fuel then! Would be also easier to code as well

[DaŇjeL_SK]

I am glad, that Tiger1996 isn't coder of Bk Mod
... btw. flanks speed should ha only fast vehicles... so all wolverines chasis vehicles, hellcat, comet and panther... I never got, why tiger have this ability
... omfg stationary ability only with vet ? ... is nothing like that in bk
And guys, pls come back to range problem.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Really???!!! Weren't u the same guys who kept saying that Tigerphobia should cost something at least??!! X_X Or what do u mean then with that u r glad I am not the coder?! Stationary mode increases both the rate of fire and the shooting range btw... So if u add this to the Panther, it's gonna be a very good deal instead of currently nothing at all.. but what makes u think that this is something impossible to exist in Bk mod after Vet1??!!
Or maybe u think that Axis tanks should all receive accurate long shot abilities??!! I wouldn't mind xD

[Erich]

i agree with danjel,tiger is a heavy tank the flank speed shouldnt even exist since the tiger doesnt need flank any tank and tiger more fast than a sherman? lol.

Panthers already are faster,good armor,always when they face enemy tank the first shots is from panther. i only would agree with the stationary mode.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Let me repeat again;
Stationary mode for Panthers after Vet2 while to remove rapid shooting because stationary mode already increases rate of fire! Tigerphobia to cost 35 ammo instead of currently 'zero' for both KT and Tiger tanks.. all accurate long shot price to be reduced to 30 ammo instead of 50 while also being accessible on Vet1 for Tiger and Vet2 for KT.

About the flank speed... Tigers weren't slow tanks! This is the fastest heavy tank ever built although it's just the second one to be ever built as well after the early KV-1!! They were one of the best to be used trough Blitzkrieg tactics.. the Tiger's problem was their slow turrets and that they absorb a lot of res and not their slow moving speed or only when they move on mud simply because they are heavy!!! But on normal conditions they were the best to move on rough grounds (Like deserts in Afrika for example) too because of their huge tracks. It's an ability that is going to cost 50 instead of 35 ammo after 2 Vet steps instead of currently a single one, what's wrong then??!! Much better than what is represented now even. I can't make better deals considering the Tiger! If there is something that should be done to it, it's then what I suggested I believe. Or rather as is...

[Erich]

Fastest HEAVY TANK,the tiger was fast for his category,so the tiger isnt fast as cromwell or others tanks that have flank speed.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I am up to test it with u.. or let's say to make a race on Autry's road So that we can clearly see if that the Tiger is probably going to be faster than any other tank with flank speeds or not I am sure it won't even get close to them. And don't forget that I also suggested at the same time for all the other flank speed abilities to become literally for free to all the other tanks that are already having it except for the Tiger!

[Erich]

¬¬ this is a game,the speed of all vehicles or most of them arent 100% real,i was talking about in real life,tiger never in any situation could be faster than a sherman,cromwell,m10. But in bk tigers are.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Surely it's a game, that's exactly what I am saying... However that in Bk Tigers are noway faster or even as fast as Cromwells or any other Allies tank destroyers such as Wolverines, Hellcats, or Achilles etc. Even when flank speed is in use! I am also up to test it with u as I said if u like that. It could be only really faster than the HE M4 Sherman (Standard E8s are faster) only while using the flank speed.. but yet Shermans, Hellcats, Cromwells and even Pershings all have very much faster turret rotation speed like in reality. And btw, in real life Tigers had the best mobility when compared to all other tanks on Afrika!! Because they were heavy with a strong engine giving high horse power supported by huge tracks unlike the thin tracks of Shermans where they got easily stuck in deep sand areas through the desert. So it's just not true to say that Tigers could never be faster than Shermans at any possible situation! Afrika combat is also represented on the game through the add on ^^ But whatever again; this is an ability that is going to be delayed by a Vet step with a higher cost according to my suggestions!!! So I can't see any problems here anyhow... Plus that since it's a well known thing (As that even Wolf mentioned it a long time a go somewhere if not mistaken) that the Tiger is actually a unit from the iconic category of the game.. then totally removing one of its abilities is somehow impossible anyways.

So I think I can raise my voice with a high confidence saying that normal Tigers will 'forever' still have the flank speed ability and that the Ace will never have it because of that it's a bit heavier being equipped with a lot of other accessories like the fuel packages on the rear and the S-mine boxes on the turret...

[JimQwilleran]

Speaking with Tiger is like herding cats guys... I ceased any endeavour leading to any form of convincing him to anything...

[Krieger Blitzer]

Really???!!! Alright.. u guys then believe that the Tiger is just fine as is now as I actually do always, right?! I wanted or honestly tried to achieve what several of u asked before about adding a cost to the Tigerphobia while making Panthers more appealing at longer ranges but seems like if u don't like it! Well np... I withdraw my suggestions right now regarding this. No need to even argue more about it if u primarily don't like the idea of delaying the flank speed with a Vet step while increasing its cost too!

[JimQwilleran]

Really???!!! Alright.. u guys then believe that the Tiger is just fine as is now as I actually do always, right?! I wanted or honestly tried to achieve what several of u asked before about adding a cost to the Tigerphobia while making Panthers more appealing at longer ranges but seems like if u don't like it! Well np... I withdraw my suggestions right now regarding this.

lol

[Krieger Blitzer]

Laughing??!! Ok, but really I am looking forward to see u whining about the Tigerphobia thing again... U have just proven or confirmed that u don't have any problems with the Tigerphobia anyhow. Which is something I am glad of ^^

[Warhawks97]

why is that topic again just about tigers? Its about ranges of certain units and in my opinion it "sucks" a bit that shermans can outrange every axis heavy tank by using this command vehicle ability.

Even more stupid is the stupa, stuh, scott outrange tanks thing. In the replay of danjel a scott immobilized a Panther and the Panther with its long canon couldnt reach the scott while those was shooting the panther all the time keeping it immobilized.


So thats why i think that tanks with gunsight upgrades would have + 5 range after receiving these special gunsights. The upgrade cost would go up from 75-100 ammo.

Stationary mode wouldnt increase range anymore and only spotting range and rof. Brits would increase the range of tanks with help of command tank and US armor doc with help of command vehicle which build cost would drop from 350 to 275 or 300 mp.


stuhs, scotts and stupas would have range of normal tanks.

[JimQwilleran]

stuhs, scotts and stupas would have range of normal tanks.

I agree!

[Krieger Blitzer]

stuhs, scotts and stupas would have range of normal tanks.

I completely disagree... Wolf through the last patch didn't increase their range to yet once again reduce it! They are fine now as is, plus that with a decreased range they would literally become 'useless' as that specifically Stuhs already dies with exactly 2 Zookas which is another subject and a reason beside several others of justifying my ideas about limiting the number of the allowed handheld AT weapons generally in a result..

However that I am not deviating from the main topic concept; I am still speaking around the same subject of it.. which is mainly talking about the range of Axis tanks and that how ridiculous it is when to see Allies tanks or I mean 'Shermans' out ranging Tigers or Panthers using command vehicles!
That's why I am suggesting to probably give the Panther the stationary position ability after 1 or 2 Vet steps (not sure yet) in order to give it both of more shooting and sight ranges with an increased rate of fire too exactly like the Firefly's stationary mode... While to also improve the Tiger's reliability on longer ranges by giving it the accurate long range shot ability with a decreased cost and to be earlier available by a Vet step as well as fixing on the other hand the Tigerphobia issue by giving it a price and also delaying it finally!! And to do similar with the flank speed ability too by delaying and increasing its cost as well.. while also giving the flank speed abilities to all the other tanks which are already having it for free!!!

Now I need to first know exactly about who does initially agree to that and who does not?!?! So that then we can probably speak about certain values considering this.

I don't like to hear someone saying or speaking about to totally remove the flank speed from Tigers... Simply because this won't be possible anyhow as I strongly believe! Even primarily as Wolf mentioned before if u remember well, saying that the Tiger is an iconic unit.. when we asked him to increase their cost or when others suggested to remove their tank shock abilities disliking the Tigerphobia thing as that his answer was obviously and clearly the same. In addition to that.. is that I will personally never agree on totally removing any of the current Tiger abilities. But let's maybe modify or fix them indeed...

Now let me repeat for the 3rd time regarding those values I would like to change on the Tiger while editing some little points from the previously ones wrote above;
-Tiger's accurate long shot to become available on Vet lvl 1 with a cost of 35 ammo instead of currently 50.
-Tiger's flank speed ability to cost 50 ammo or 25 fuel instead of currently 35 ammo and to be available on Vet lvl 2.
-Tiger's Tigerphobia to cost 25 ammo instead of currently nothing. While to do same with KT's Tigerphobia... Both could be still denied by veteran sprint of some inf squads.
-KT's accurate long shot to become available at Vet lvl 2 by receiving the same new cost.
-Panthers rapid shot ability to be removed and replaced with the stationary position at some Vet level. Not defined yet... Maybe Vet 1 or 2!

-I also once suggested btw for the SP to become re callable by modifying the war machine ability while reducing its cost from 250 currently to 200 ammo affecting all the US tanks including the SP of course. This WILL NOT destroy the principle of that the SP is a bonus unit as that the war machine ability does already require a lot of CPs as well.
This action would be regarded as to only give 'some fake hope' (As I think they still won't be able to achieve it ) for the US Armor doc through or during long fights when JagdTigers and Elephants are called more than 2 times... Not more.

WHO AGREES anyways????????

[Warhawks97]

stuhs, scotts and stupas would have range of normal tanks.

I completely disagree... Wolf through the last patch didn't increase their range to yet once again reduce it! They are fine now as is, plus that with a decreased range they would literally become 'useless' as that specifically Stuhs already dies with exactly 2 Zookas which is another subject and a reason beside several others of justifying my ideas about limiting the number of the allowed handheld AT weapons generally in a result..

I gonna make a new topic about these units soon with some ideas about it.

However that I am not deviating from the main topic concept; I am still speaking around the same subject of it.. which is mainly talking about the range of Axis tanks and that how ridiculous it is when to see Allies tanks or I mean 'Shermans' out ranging Tigers or Panthers using command vehicles!
That's why I am suggesting to probably give the Panther the stationary position ability after 1 or 2 Vet steps (not sure yet) in order to give it both of more shooting and sight ranges with an increased rate of fire too exactly like the Firefly's stationary mode... While to also improve the Tiger's reliability on longer ranges by giving it the accurate long range shot ability with a decreased cost and to be earlier available by a Vet step as well as fixing on the other hand the Tigerphobia issue by giving it a price and also delaying it finally!! And to do similar with the flank speed ability too by delaying and increasing its cost as well.. while also giving the flank speed abilities to all the other tanks which are already having it for free!!!

I dont want to stuck on Tiger abilities in this topic or on SP´s etc..... it´s not the point of that topic.


What i dont get why do you stuck so hard on this "stationary" mode for Panthers to increase the range. This Stationary mode just shouldnt increase the range for some good reasons. For example the PE sdkfz 234/4 equiped with a normal pak and without any special gunsight can outrange Panthers etc which is bs. Another sample is firefly and Jackson B. In Stationary mode booth outrange Panther and with either CW command tank or US armor command vehicle ability they will outrange panthers even when those get stationary mode. You see it wouldnt really help nor would it fit in Panthers role.


So thats why i would really remove range advantage from stationary modes and instead those provide only rof and view buff but no range buff. So axis would equip each heavier tank or tankbuster with special gunsights giving them + 5 range and thus a permanent range advantage due to better gunsights like in reality while allied can buff it with command tanks and vehicles to match up. Its a kind of "improved communication between tanks" or "platoon fireing on one detected target" sharing target informations.

That would just make more sense than "give Panther stationary mode" and expecting then that all the messed up ranges would be solved..... they wouldnt and its not only about Panthers and Tigers.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Well, it's the devs choice to choose between the several suggested ideas regarding this.. maybe they could even mix around each of them!! ^^ These topics are just about the influence of various ideas while representing them but at last it's their decision for sure...

[DaŇjeL_SK]

In the replay of danjel a scott immobilized a Panther and the Panther with its long canon couldnt reach the scott while those was shooting the panther all the time keeping it immobilized.

constant immobilizing is ok... but causing damage by every shot was bullshit, because it's only 75mm howitzer

stuhs, scotts and stupas would have range of normal tanks.

When you will nerf their range, noone will use them anymore... especially StuH, because is slow and bad armored.
And if I remember good, ranges of this vehicles were nerfed few patches ago. And howitzers had longer range than tanks.

[Warhawks97]

In the replay of danjel a scott immobilized a Panther and the Panther with its long canon couldnt reach the scott while those was shooting the panther all the time keeping it immobilized.

constant immobilizing is ok... but causing damage by every shot was bullshit, because it's only 75mm howitzer

why is it ok? It means its a dead unit and repairs not possible as these units would kill the pios all the time. Also HE rounds got often used against heavy armor to weaken these. So it makes sense.

stuhs, scotts and stupas would have range of normal tanks.

When you will nerf their range, noone will use them anymore... especially StuH, because is slow and bad armored.
And if I remember good, ranges of this vehicles were nerfed few patches ago. And howitzers had longer range than tanks.

wrong. howitzer does NOT mean more range.
Fun fact: 76 sherman max HE round range was 14,6 km. KT HE round more than 10 km just it would be fired inaccurate and thus would be a waste. The US 105 Howitzer just 11,2 km and axis 105 leif 18/M 12,3 km. Did you ever read the history of Howitzers? they had in general shorter barrels compared to their canon counterparts. The intenion was to throw HE over enemie defenses or right into trenches. Also to be lighter than canons by throwing the same ammount of HE or more against the enemie. Also check axis ww2 artillery. Canons had been a lot larger than howitzers but also had more range and had been much heavier. A 105 mm or 150 mm canon would be simply tooo heavy to be effectively transported or usefull in the modern movment war (However, axis used a very small ammount of large canons which weight up to 50-75 tons and with just 10-30 build pieced but with insane range). Also too heavy to be mounted on the available chassis so Howitzers filled the main role as artillery as they are lighter than canons with same calibre. if you read stuff about german arty in ww2 you will always find the designation "K" for "Kanonr" ("canon") or "FH" for "Feldhaubitze" ("Field Howitzer"). As sample compare the "15 cm Kanone 18" with "schwere Feldhaubitze 18" which us used by Hummel. The weight of canon 12,5 tons but 24,5 km range. The Haubitze used by Hummel just 5,5 tons but also just 13-14 km range.


The Max range of stuh was 5 km and never used against targets beyond 2 km (usually less than 1 km). Stupa max range was 4.7 km and having very strong dropping trajectory. So theoretically possible inaccurate barraging and accurate direct shooting at point blank. Simply how howitzers worked.


So pls... stop spreading this missunderstanding of howitzers that is missleading players forcing the highly wrong believe that Howitzers have more range than canons (the opposite is actually the case).