Brainless Tactics

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Above there is a great example of the player who has no clue on what is going on when it comes to conversations about gameplay and balance.

Viper, mate, I and some others referred to the same strategy that almost every Axis doc adopted as the most efficient one. Units might be different, but it doesn't really matter when the game plan is always the same.

[Consti255]

Above there is a great example of the player who has no clue on what is going on when it comes to conversations about gameplay and balance.

Viper, mate, I and some others referred to the same strategy that almost every Axis doc adopted as the most efficient one. Units might be different, but it doesn't really matter when the game plan is always the same.

Agreed.
Even Luft, which should be played with more pace, is camp heavy with later Panthers, most of the times.

[Red]

I have to agree with MarkR, the smaller maps or maps with up to three choke-points (e.g Bridges) invite building a solid defense first. But this is not something I would put on the Axis side, because the UK can also be played on such maps quite effectively that way. The first reason coming to my mind why the US is often not played that way is because their AT guns suck.

To counter this issue, I would recommend more use of extra large maps without bridges as well as playing with 150 popcap. The combination of the vast number of possible attackrouts on open XL maps with the limited number of units due to popcap means that to cover all angles the defensive positions would have to be close to the own base, resulting in very little ressources generated, and hence most likely defeat.

So my proposal would be to focus on having more generally accepted XL maps instead of reworking the Axis doctrines.

[Consti255]

I have to agree with MarkR, the smaller maps or maps with up to three choke-points (e.g Bridges) invite building a solid defense first. But this is not something I would put on the Axis side, because the UK can also be played on such maps quite effectively that way. The first reason coming to my mind why the US is often not played that way is because their AT guns suck.

To counter this issue, I would recommend more use of extra large maps without bridges as well as playing with 150 popcap. The combination of the vast number of possible attackrouts on open XL maps with the limited number of units due to popcap means that to cover all angles the defensive positions would have to be close to the own base, resulting in very little ressources generated, and hence most likely defeat.

So my proposal would be to focus on having more generally accepted XL maps instead of reworking the Axis doctrines.

We all do, but did you try hosting those maps? You wait forever that someone will join.

[Warhawks97]

I have to agree with MarkR, the smaller maps or maps with up to three choke-points (e.g Bridges) invite building a solid defense first. But this is not something I would put on the Axis side, because the UK can also be played on such maps quite effectively that way. The first reason coming to my mind why the US is often not played that way is because their AT guns suck.

To counter this issue, I would recommend more use of extra large maps without bridges as well as playing with 150 popcap. The combination of the vast number of possible attackrouts on open XL maps with the limited number of units due to popcap means that to cover all angles the defensive positions would have to be close to the own base, resulting in very little ressources generated, and hence most likely defeat.

So my proposal would be to focus on having more generally accepted XL maps instead of reworking the Axis doctrines.

We all do, but did you try hosting those maps? You wait forever that someone will join.

Not only that you wait long. Large maps often end up in someone crashes. Fields of engagment, Hürtgenwald, i cant remember when we played a game there without someone crashing mid-game.

Also you can perhaps blame maps, but nontheless the cost-efficency is just too good when just sitting behind sandbags and rush arty/tanks. When a 105 is cheaper than most inf squads and on top of that earlier available than infantry improvments and infantry unlocks you just cant be surprised that camp/bomb mode gets activated right away.

[Mood]

I don't know what you expect. This is a "standard" RTS game/mod, not some super deep grand strategy (like Stellaris for example) where you can use perhaps dozens of ways to win a battle or war. Entrenching in a good position with adequate resources while progressing tiers/technology sounds like a fine strategy and is used in a plethora of various strategy games.

And speaking of the "most boring axis doc", I'd ironically say it's the Blitzkrieg one for me, just the opposite of what some people here wrote. Just tank and stormtrooper spam, with an occasional Maultier. Propaganda is pretty well done and fun to play in comparison, and isn't as streamlined as BK doc.

[Consti255]

I don't know what you expect. This is a "standard" RTS game/mod, not some super deep grand strategy (like Stellaris for example) where you can use perhaps dozens of ways to win a battle or war. Entrenching in a good position with adequate resources while progressing tiers/technology sounds like a fine strategy and is used in a plethora of various strategy games.

And speaking of the "most boring axis doc", I'd ironically say it's the Blitzkrieg one for me, just the opposite of what some people here wrote. Just tank and stormtrooper spam, with an occasional Maultier. Propaganda is pretty well done and fun to play in comparison, and isn't as streamlined as BK doc.

Well you have docs for that or ?
I agree, nothing wrong with such tactics, but a whole faction which evolves arround such playstyle is over the top for me.
Its personal preference which ALL players have. You like Prop doc and i like Blitz doc for example. But thats the beauty of docs and faction design.
everyone gets a slice from the cake.
You also bring up the WH docs, which are not as near as campy (Def excluded) as PE docs and faction itself, while i am absolutely fine that WH can support such "playstyle", with def doc and their grenadiers and volks grens, but i am absolutely against such playstyle looking at PE.
I mean a mechanized faction, evolved arround camping strats? Cmon.

[Warhawks97]

I don't know what you expect. This is a "standard" RTS game/mod, not some super deep grand strategy (like Stellaris for example) where you can use perhaps dozens of ways to win a battle or war. Entrenching in a good position with adequate resources while progressing tiers/technology sounds like a fine strategy and is used in a plethora of various strategy games.

And speaking of the "most boring axis doc", I'd ironically say it's the Blitzkrieg one for me, just the opposite of what some people here wrote. Just tank and stormtrooper spam, with an occasional Maultier. Propaganda is pretty well done and fun to play in comparison, and isn't as streamlined as BK doc.

no one expect it to be a million dollar like super deep startegy game, but hands down, even vcoh had a much deeper faction design and doctrines with unlocks that were actually worthy unlocks.

Also there were different tiering and technology where you actually had to make a decision in which direction you tec. Each faction there had basically various ways of tiering (eg PE going either inf heavy but delaying panthers etc, vehicle heavy or straight panther rush but sacraficing a lot of other stuff. The same was true for any faction with different tiering paths, more engaging gameplay and so on. You never really knew what you would go up against and what kind of strat and tactics your enemie is going to use. On top of that the ammo/fuel balance was a million times better, no pointless unlocks to sink in CP´s, the arty-inf balance was way better and so on.

BK basically went a few steps back from vcoh in this regard. Only in terms of balance models, zoom-out and unit models it is way ahead of vcoh. But the factions are just mirrored, a mechanized, highly mobile and flexible faction which was limited in defensive gameplay has turned into a dull and stupid "i lock everything down with scout cars, paks AT cars and a few grens" faction and the tiering and tecing is basically "i max tier within 8 minutes and just spam bad ass tanks". Arty is cheap as fuck to acquire and ammo is basically always enough to fire your artillery and fully upgrade one tank but never enough to do anything else.


I think we are all aware of the limitations we have. But at least BK should be somewhat ahead of vcoh which to me seems currently more exciting and engaging while BK is often times on repetetive mess of hard camp, cheap arty, medium tanks and instant elite tanks. Basically you dont have to sacrafice anything when you go for instant arty, instant medium tanks or instant max tec rush to get hands on ace units.

The bad thing about vcoh is the bad zoom-out, bad tank models and short combat distances and slightly worse damage model.