Tank ammo unlock costs.

[tarakancheg]

I suddenly had an idea in my head:loading ammo in tanks (unlocking HE/AP) will cost fuel instead of ammo, but usage will still be costing ammo.
This may solve an issue of tank using all of your ammo without firing any special shells.

[Warhawks97]

.....

Well, yeah, kind of: lets make tanks simply cost more fuel by default and in return HE is available right away.


Generally i would make it as follows (sorry when i repeat it over and over)

1. Normal tanks (or main battle tanks and CW cruiser and infantry tanks) have basic AP and HE by default and cost way more ammo as they do now. They are real multirole tanks. I would even argue that most of the times they fight soft targets, so it would just be logical to give them the ability to do so right away.
HVAP/APCR and APDS rounds are only available after a high ammo price to load them or, and thats my prefered option, these kind of rounds are being unlocked only in certain doctrines that put a higher emphasis on tank use.


2. TD´s have APCR/HVAP and APDS rounds by default just like AT guns and can buy HE for a high cost. Alternatively there would be global MP+Fuel upgrade that delivers these rounds globally to TD´s. However, that can vary from faction to faction.


3. Howitzer tanks like scott, stuh, stupa, 105 sherman and all german stubby 75 mm tanks only fire HE and can buy HEAT. Basically stay as they are. However they cost less fuel than lets say a comparable multirole tank and have either a higher rof than most tanks or they simply fire big ammount of HE right in the first shot. So they are more cost effective when it comes to pure anti infantry warfare.


That would make things a hell lot easier. I dont see a point why to produce a tank for low fuel cost but then again pay fuel for the ammo needed to actually do its job. Just bump up the fuel cost right away, give them basic AP and HE right away and there we go. Why do we always need to make things more complicate than necessary?

[Diablo]

I suddenly had an idea in my head:loading ammo in tanks (unlocking HE/AP) will cost fuel instead of ammo, but usage will still be costing ammo.
This may solve an issue of tank using all of your ammo without firing any special shells.

What price would you envision?

HE upgrade for 25 - 30 fuel?
AP rounds for 10?

[Mood]

Why don't you just lower ammo upgrade cost a bit instead of switching to fuel?

[MEFISTO]

Why don't you just lower ammo upgrade cost a bit instead of switching to fuel?

Becouse what they really want is to reduce the amount of tanks and vehicle you can deploy on a game, turning the game into infantry supremacy over other units.

[Walderschmidt]

I could get behind this. Would like to test it at least.

Wald

[Warhawks97]

Becouse what they really want is to reduce the amount of tanks and vehicle you can deploy on a game, turning the game into infantry supremacy over other units.

Nice, conspiracy, but you are wrong. There are a lot of vehicles that could go down in cost, esspecially in terms of fuel cost. And there are dirty cheap medium tanks that cost less fuel than many light vehicles which could go up.


So stop talking nonsense conspiracy bullshit.

I could get behind this. Would like to test it at least.

Wald

So, where would be the difference between simply increasing the fuel cost of a tank by this ammount of fuel?

I also see a problem comming that a lot of tanks arent so far off with their cost. Some tanks would suddenly again consume ~200 fuel.

And it would also not solve the issue with tanks being as cheap as vehicles and light tanks.

I see a lot more issues comming with fuel cost for upgrades as it would solve. The easiest way would be to take a look at each tank, check their fuel cost, adjust them by this category: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4220 and make sure they do not eat up all ammo at once.

[tarakancheg]

So, where would be the difference between simply increasing the fuel cost of a tank by this ammount of fuel?
I see a lot more issues comming with fuel cost for upgrades as it would solve. The easiest way would be to take a look at each tank, check their fuel cost, adjust them by this category: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4220 and make sure they do not eat up all ammo at once.

At the very least it will be a good start and won't require a rework of all the tank prices.
Also sometimes you don't need some shells on some tanks except very specific cases (haven't seen anyone use ap for brit Sherman for example)

[Walderschmidt]

I could get behind this. Would like to test it at least.

Wald

So, where would be the difference between simply increasing the fuel cost of a tank by this ammount of fuel?

The difference would be that you would pay 75-100 fuel or whatever number was agreed for a global upgrade for tanks.

Wald

[Consti255]

Depends on how much work this is, i would like to test it.
If it is just a small amount of Numver changes (which i assume) i think it is worth a try.

But what i just think about is, that infantry focused docs (mainly inf doc) will get more expensive M4 shermans when it comes to fuel, but have way more ammo to spend on infantry. Inf doc doesnt need fuel that much, which would be a super buff to them.

[Warhawks97]

At the very least it will be a good start and won't require a rework of all the tank prices.
Also sometimes you don't need some shells on some tanks except very specific cases (haven't seen anyone use ap for brit Sherman for example)

technically speaking, changing unit costs are often easier to set and change than ability costs or upgrade costs where you have to search for first. Changing unit costs are the most easy thing to do in my opinion.

Also there are far less tanks to change fuel cost as there are ammo upgrades. For the most part only US and axis medium tanks would need a fuel cost adjustment (and MP cost adjustment). Most CW tanks are finde in terms of fuel and the heavies as well.

So, the easier route and easier revertable route would be cost adjustments on US and axis medium tanks.

[Walderschmidt]

No, the easier route would be 2 or 4 global ammo unlocks for a fuel cost than modifying the fuel cost of 5-10+ tanks in each faction.

Wald

[Warhawks97]

No, the easier route would be 2 or 4 global ammo unlocks for a fuel cost than modifying the fuel cost of 5-10+ tanks in each faction.

Wald

what kind of global upgrade you are speaking about all of a sudden?

[Walderschmidt]

No, the easier route would be 2 or 4 global ammo unlocks for a fuel cost than modifying the fuel cost of 5-10+ tanks in each faction.

Wald

what kind of global upgrade you are speaking about all of a sudden?

When I read the OP I thought he meant a one time fuel cost to upgrade tanks with the ability to use AP/HE shells but I realize now he wants to AP/HE shells cost fuel to equip rather than muni.

I’d prefer your idea to raise all tank fuel costs and then they have no need to upgrade AP or HE rounds.

But more than that, I’d prefer a global upgrade than messing with a lot of tank fuel costs.

Wald

[Consti255]

No, the easier route would be 2 or 4 global ammo unlocks for a fuel cost than modifying the fuel cost of 5-10+ tanks in each faction.

Wald

what kind of global upgrade you are speaking about all of a sudden?

When I read the OP I thought he meant a one time fuel cost to upgrade tanks with the ability to use AP/HE shells but I realize now he wants to AP/HE shells cost fuel to equip rather than muni.

I’d prefer your idea to raise all tank fuel costs and then they have no need to upgrade AP or HE rounds.

But more than that, I’d prefer a global upgrade than messing with a lot of tank fuel costs.

Wald

agreed on anything, that increases fuel for mediums