There are two types of HE in this game basically:
1. Relatively small radius but huge damage at any of the AoE brackets.
Example: Tank HE shells. AoE of just seven (like a US Handgrenade or small 60 mm mortar) but huge damage at any given AoE bracket. 95 base damage for german 75 mm Tank HE shells modified by 1.5 vs inf and only 50% drop at its furthest area. That means afterall 71,25 damage vs inf at its AoE edge. I now that cover etc changes things but most of the time cover makes squads die even faster since they stick closer together many times.
Up into the late game HE whipes the floor with every single shot. First then, when map is totally cratered and Elite high HP Elite inf with several damage reducing modifiers are running arround, things somtimes change and HE kills just 1-2 men.
2. Weapons with very high AoE blast area. For instance light 75 mm arty and 81 mm mortar. Light arty has the same AoE area of 10 which is the same as a 105 has. The 81 mm mortar even has an blast area of 12. However damage at the furthest bracket is only 20% of the initial damage.
The thing is both of these types of AoE are completely dominating early to mid game when inf has barely any upgrade/Boost or cover. PE and CW seem to be most affected by it since their inf is expensive but has still just normal ammount of HP. One HE shot perhaps followed up by a cal 50 or MG42/34 burst and 300+ MP are gone just like that. So its all up to the elite late game inf with all their boosts and cover options in late game to perform even the most basic infantry duties.
What changes would be cool:
It would be nice when we would find some middle ground.
1. For instance medium arty such as 75 mm arty as well as most tanks with a 75 mm gun would have an average AoE blast area of 8,5 to 9 but with only roughly 20% of the damage dealt at the most outside AoE bracket. Damage in the center would always be high enough to kill any soldier but then dropping down.
2. 37 mm HE would have an max AoE of like 4 and a good damage on direct hit but then also nicely dropping. Stuart has 7 AoE for notice.
3. Light mortars would have an AoE of arround 5 but good damage on hit. Right now US 60 mm mortar has a decent AoE but never kills even on direct hits when units sit in yellow cover since its damage just doesnt allow for a kill on hit for some reason. Cost for light mortars would be no more than 240 MP or 220.
Meanwhile 81 mm Mortar AoE gets lowered from 12 (idk why it has 12 in the first place) to arround 7,5 or 8 with a nice steady damage drop. Cost would go down to arround 290 MP or 280. That way mortars would stay in direct competition to light arty and rocket arty and stay viable throughout the entire game.
4. Heavier arty such as 105 would get much higher cost (450/50), more range (300) and bit higher AoE (12 instead of 10). That way we wouldnt have all indirect fire units clustered so close together. Many times i ask myself: "Do i get a 105 arty or 81 mm Mortar?". This question should never come to mind in the first place.
5. AoE blasts should have a higher suppressive effect. So for the most time you deal some damage and suppress enemies instead of outright blasting them into heaven.
6. Volume of HE fire should be more important rather than "Put all faith into a single HE shot". Right now its like this: "HE kills the enemie instantly or enemie kills you". Hence rate of fire is an important factor.
7. HE guns should not have such a limited range. HE range would be 60 for guns. This along with a higher damage drop at its AoE egdes and higher suppression would turn HE overall into a more continusly damaging weapon with high suppression effect, even stunning effects, that kills some enemies and forces them to retreat. But it wouldnt outright whipe units all day long.
The Main issues with HE currently are:
1. Extrem high damage within its AoE, thats true esspecially for gun type weapons such as Tank guns etc. Even at the edge of its AoE they easily kill an average soldier, often even when those stay in cover.
2. Even tiny HE shells used by guns that are primarily AT weapons such as the famous 37 mm guns are super effective. I Tiny 37 mm gun can sometimes whipe an entire squad even when those are within buildings. (Also true for grenades)
3. Indirect AoE Weapons often times have an incredible AoE effect. Medium arty stands at 10 like an 105 arty, medium mortars even have 12 AoE which doesnt seem right. Their impact visual are also often times nuke like.
4. Due to the points above games, esspecially those starting at HR, become a real AoE festival in the early and mid stage. Every AoE strike has the potential to fully whipe squads and even if they dont die outright, they suffer so much damage and losses that any continutation of combat is completely usless.
5. HE weapons often times have completely random stats. One have high alpha damage (German 75 mm Tank HE, Pack Howitzer), others extrem high damage modifiers vs certain types like inf (Basically all Tank and AT gun based HE rounds that makes them killing everything caught in blast area) others high damage on direct impact point making them super effective vs emplacments (EG Pack howitzer), other brutalized AoE Brackets (Leig 18), others extrem AoE Area (81 mm Mortars, 60 mm US Mortar, Medium Arty like leig 18 and Pack howitzer), others are super bad in terms of damage for their size (EG Cromwell and US 60 mm Mortar).
So, what would be nice:
Mortars:
1. Light Mortars like 60 mm and others would have decent damage on impact point (75 base damage and perhaps higher on direct impact point), AoE reduced from i think ~8 down to 4.5 since they are basically handgrenades fired from a tube.
Cost dropped to like 220 MP pr 240. So they are usefull at any stage of the game as cheap indirect fire support.
2. 81 mm Mortars would have arround 100 damage at impact point but AoE dropped from 12 down to arround 7. Damage at the edge is down to 20% of its alpha damage (roughly). Cost down to arround 280 or 290 MP.
Mortars will have an suppressive effect and the heavier mortars perhaps a bit of stunning effect.
37 mm HE guns:
1. AoE of arround 3.5 to 4. Decent damage in the center, harming effect beyond that, some slight suppression effect.
75 mm Tank gun from Sherman, Panther, Panzer IV, Stugs, cromwell etc:
1. AoE increased from 7 to 8.5.
2. Base damage is 100 (right now varies from 60-95). 50% damage modifier vs inf is gone. 50% damage increase on direct impact point to reach 150 to make sure a solider hit in the face is dead.
3. Damage modifiers at the outer AoE areas drop to arround 20%. Beyond 5 range the AoE also drops below 50% of its base damage (atm it loses max 50% of its damage.
Decent stun and suppression effect.
75 mm Medium Arty:
Same as 75 mm Tank guns listed above.
Pack Howitzer Range increased to 200. Cost increased to 370 MP.
Its super slow and sluggish and often times, once using it, a rocket arty counter barrage comes in and totally nukes that thing or a random rocket salvo lands on when the missiles fly beyond their max range. It should be more like a "true howitzer unit" because thats what it actually is. Hence cost something but also having the range to stay viable during matches.
105 mm Arty:
AoE increased from 10 to 12 or 13.
Cost and range increased to 300 (275 for SPG)
Cost up to 450/50 (475/55 for emplaced version)
105 and 150 mm Howitzer would be pretty Expensive but outstanding in terms of range.
76 mm US M1 gun:
1. Primary AT role, secondary Anti inf. 100 base damage, 150 damage on direct impact point, 6.5 AoE, down to 20% of its damage at its outer range brackets.
Decent suppression and stun effect in blast area.
(As a note here: vcoh managed to get this right i think)
17 Pdr Gun:
1. Primary AT role, secondary Anti inf. 100 base damage, 150 damage on direct impact point, 7 AoE, down to 20% of its damage at its outer range brackets.
Decent suppression and stun effect in blast area.
Grenades:
Grenades are sick. They got a pretty AoE and damage and are often capable of whiping an entire house.
1. US Grenades/Pineaples: AoE from 7 or 7.5 down to 4.5 But damage is extremely high (no numbers yet).
Cost down to 10 ammo.
2. Axis "Stiehlhandgrante" Grenade: AoE from 4.5 or 5 up to 5.5 Lower damage than US one, but therefore Stunning effect.
Cost down to 20 ammo.
Handgrenades should not so easily kill this many targets within a building. So if you really want to storm or clear them, you should use nade bunldes and volleys. Volleys in particular are almost never used because one is often times more than enough. Hence Elite inf throwing multriple grenades at once might become actually a thing when clearing storming houses etc.
Additional changes to complement it:
1. HE doesnt have reduced range compared to AP rounds since there wont be a need for it anymore.
2. Remove all single shot HE abilities. Again no need for it anymore since HE is a damage dealer over time, suppression and support asset. Yes, it kills but not at a rate it does now.
Also single shot HE have the issue of bypassing reload times that enables tanks to shoot an AP round on a tank and then again a HE round against inf all within like 3 seconds. Tested it now a couple of times.
Suppression and stunning effects now become a thing. Tanks can keep a units in an area suppressed with HE fire and MG fire while your infantry moves in with close range weapons. Right now tanks can kill everything on their own, one HE shot usually forces an instant retreat, if not causing a full whipe when combined with the fire of their MG´s that kill the last two retreating guys.
3. Battle tanks have access to HE by default. But lose all options for AP unless you unlock them in a doc tree.
4. Tank destroyers on the other hand have AP usually by default or after global upgrade, but have to purchase HE rounds instead for arround 50 ammo.
