Handheld AT weapon packages.

[Krieger Blitzer]

The Armor doc itself currently seem to be fearing the early Blitz or TH docs Hs spam even much more than the AB doc!!! The Armor doc on most cases will badly suffer against them while the AB doc would never do as I presume... Again, the Pz4 IVH recently can't stand a chance against only 4 Recoilless rifles to be fired on it.. or probably it may survive but at least by losing 2/3 of its health and those AB AT teams will just retreat maybe losing one or 2 men as well but then they reinforce and here we go again. While we also have to keep in mind that Axis don't have fast repairing capabilities unlike the Armor doc do!!

And so; for the hundred time I repeat it... Restricting AB from being able to grab unlimited numbers of handheld AT weapons is a must one way or even another! Just like the old 6 Johnsons issue as that both are definitely against the game principles. The AB doc weren't given Hellcats and airstrikes to be yet also able to perfectly take out enemy Pz4s using AB units!! For that there are a lot of several ideas and suggestions represented on the table now!
One of these solutions is the general numbers of the allowed handheld AT weapons to all get restricted specifically for the AB packages to include a single Recoilless or a single Bazooka per each package instead of 2 or... A better solution maybe is only regarding the AB units for them to just drop being already equipped by their Recoilless rifles or by their Bazookas exactly like in vCoH and currently like the HQ AB squad!!!!! Same to be applied for both Falls and SAS.

[Warhawks97]

The Armor doc itself currently seem to be fearing the early Blitz or TH docs Hs spam even much more than the AB doc!!! The Armor doc on most cases will badly suffer against them while the AB doc would never do as I presume... Again, the Pz4 IVH recently can't stand a chance against only 4 Recoilless rifles to be fired on it.. or probably it may survive but at least by losing 2/3 of its health and those AB AT teams will just retreat maybe losing one or 2 men as well but then they reinforce and here we go again. While we also have to keep in mind that Axis don't have fast repairing capabilities unlike the Armor doc do!!

And so; for the hundred time I repeat it... Restricting AB from being able to grab unlimited numbers of handheld AT weapons is a must one way or even another! Just like the old 6 Johnsons issue as that both are definitely against the game principles. The AB doc weren't given Hellcats and airstrikes to be yet also able to perfectly take out enemy Pz4s using AB units!! For that there are a lot of several ideas and suggestions represented on the table now!
One of these solutions is the general numbers of the allowed handheld AT weapons to all get restricted specifically for the AB packages to include a single Recoilless or a single Bazooka per each package instead of 2 or... A better solution maybe is only regarding the AB units for them to just drop being already equipped by their Recoilless rifles or by their Bazookas exactly like in vCoH and currently like the HQ AB squad!!!!! Same to be applied for both Falls and SAS.

nasty thing. Maybe a limit of max 4 zooks/rl would help here. Also if the devs would nerf Hendheld AT´s in general (less range/accuracy, aim time etc) the prob would be solved.


already equiped.... not sure. It would be unrealistic but since axis fallis drop already with fg42 and G43 the realism argument cant be used.

in vcoh they have M1 carabine:) They can purchase two RL for 125 ammo (and only in friendly territory afaik).

[Krieger Blitzer]

Shortly... The concept or the idea of the dropped packages with AT weapons being inside to be totally removed!

Well, I forgot how the vCoH worked Then maybe just like the AB HQ squad currently having one already equipped M6A3C Bazooka.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Of course no:) AB just recently got their good strength, its an interesting doc with specific pluses and minuses, and now you suggesting to turn it into shit again. No

And btw, storms, commando, rangers, grenadiers, all have 6 slots, i once had storms with 4 schrecks and 1 zook, so its not something about AB only. Its fun to play with it, its fun to play against it, go and ruin your pc, not bk mod.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Nice, good to know that it's a common bug... All should be then restricted not to see such nasty tactics being created by u or any others like u again! It's not fun and totally against the game principles.

[Warhawks97]

Of course no:) AB just recently got their good strength, its an interesting doc with specific pluses and minuses, and now you suggesting to turn it into shit again. No

And btw, storms, commando, rangers, grenadiers, all have 6 slots, i once had storms with 4 schrecks and 1 zook, so its not something about AB only. Its fun to play with it, its fun to play against it, go and ruin your pc, not bk mod.

thats true. Theoretically all could pick up a number of hendheld AT´s. Just AB drops them right on the ground and thus easy to pick up.

But IF the suggestions here would be implemented: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=468 then the new 76 guns would make it up for it a bit. Anyway. If the hendhelds AT´s would get changed all this "limit of hendheld nAT per squad" thing would become obsolete.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I dont think that it should be changed, just somebody is too silly to cover his tanks with inf or strong anti inf vehicle. Moreover, recoiless are very random to pz4, sometimes 6 of them are taking only a half of health, and sometimes 3 are killing. Tigers and Panthers though never getting any damage from recoiless, in my last three cases i couldnt finish 5% Tiger with 6-8 recoiless salvo.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I am not speaking about who is able to cover his tanks or whom is not able to do so... It has absolutely nothing to do with or about this. Now I am talking about something specific which is purely against the game principles! As that creating fictional load outs to ur troops allowing them somehow to be equipped with unlimited numbers of a certain weapon indirectly or in an indirect way.. is something that surely must be or get restricted from now on! Just like the 6 Johnsons thing Clearly it's like cheating or doing double shots using a bug abuse for example; etc....

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

The fact is that this exists in that way for 5 years in mod, so its not going against principles, though 6 Johnsons were somehow a queu bug.

[JimQwilleran]

I agree with Sukin, there is nothing bad in AT inf, and surely it is one of the most pleasuring ways of killing enemy tanks . There are also plenty ways to prevent infantry from doing so.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Well, those who are actually not interested in using tanks.. or I mean those whom aren't really sticking on tanks through their playing style will never have problems with it!
But I think that me and Hawks for example are agreeing on that there is a real issue considering the frontal rushes into tanks... Simply because both of us always like to use tanks!! However that me and Hawks yet seem to be not agreeing on each other about how fixing this would be possible anyways.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Thats it, you and warhawks playing bk/ armor doc in 90% matches, sure you want to make game more comfortable for yourself. You know that i playing all docs exept RE, and there is nothing easily than smashing AB with BK. Do you remember our 1v1 where you wanted to prove me how "op" is aiborne? How much time was enough for you, 20 mins? All air units were killed with first ostwind and storntroopees squad. You d better learn to play instead going to forum with complains everytime when somebody wrecked you.

[Kasbah]

And one more time (third post already) the problem is not with AT squads but with ALL squads that can hit and run or just stare in front of a tank with almost no losses.

[Jalis]

sure you want to make game more comfortable for yourself.

As simple than Wise.

A summary of most pvp post for years. That include axis or allies fanboys, as well as call on historically accuracy (without care for history) when it s convinients.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

LOL, i wrote a really big post, but forum crashed sadly. I dont actually think that i have to say something more after "those whom aren't really sticking on tanks through their playing style", obvious as fuck that you want tanks to be absolute superior to inf.

In short what i wanted to write here: There is a good mod for coh 2 called Spearhead, but it lost its popularity pretty fast cause of mechanics similar as you want to present here, not more than 2 at per each inf squad and bigger tank mgs damage. As result, nobody played inf oriented docs there, moreover in late game there were almost no inf at all lol, only couple of squads for caping points, all war were doing tanks, arty and paks, inf had really no deal, because as soon as Paks will be killed by arty you could just go forward with your Tiger\Panther\IS-2\Masses of E8 or whatever, they ll blow all inf in seconds and couple of zooks\schrecks will only scratch them.

And finally, look at game in some other angels, overrepaired E8 with sandbags and TC can survive panzerfaust 100 + 3 schrecks, isnt it enough to keep your tank alive? Pz4 takes from 4 to 10 zooks\recoilles (look at tigers 1v1 replay against my mate MG42, how many zooks did pz4 H survived there? 12?) isnt it enough to keep your tank alive? And im not even saying about Tigers or Panthers, they arent giving a fuck about frontal rushes at all (only silly trade breaker ability range).

There are some problematic tanks for sure, like pershing or early version of tiger, they really have frontal rush issues, but its not a reason of trying to brake things which working for years. Id better say that this units are broken, not at\inf stuff. Persh and tiger can get mounted Mgs (why this early version tiger is in game even? it was 1944), brits Sherman HE rounds and so on. But even without it, i dont thing that its a problem somehow, just learn to combine your units, its a strategy game, not like "oh, i came with single tiger when you had no pak, ok sry man, all dead because your inf cant do anything".

[Krieger Blitzer]

Hey, wait here! I didn't use any fictional load outs or any of ur own nasty 'bug abusing tactics' at all when I faced u as Blitz doc using AB! I played them normally like as supposed.. and don't forget that I am not an AB doc player even...

The match of me against MG42slo was Armor doc vs Blitz doc!!! And so by mentioning this.. there is absolutely nothing contradicting with what I am saying here... As simply as I already said that the Armor doc itself currently seem to be fearing the early Blitz or TH docs Hs spam even much more than the AB doc!!! Also, why don't u just look up ur recent replay with Ahleks then on Langres??!! How many Pz4s u killed using ONLY AB units????!!! Sorry man, but we do have a point not only because we love to use tanks. It's a real general issue that inf units have to always miss so that some certain tanks can survive! And I have surely played the Spearhead mod for CoH2, if u remember that well I was with u on one team too when my Panther got destroyed by exactly 3 frontal Zookas.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I killed 3 of them, why they dont deserve to die if he sends them forward without any support?

[JimQwilleran]

I found some interesting citations about bazookas.

During the Allied invasion of Sicily, small numbers of the M1A1 bazooka (using an improved rocket, the M6A1) were used in combat by US forces. The M1A1 accounted for four medium German tanks and a heavy Tiger I, with the latter being knocked out by a freak hit through the driver's vision slot.

Major disadvantage to the bazooka was the large backblast and smoke trail (in colder weather), which gave away the position of the shooter, mandating quick relocation of the squad. Moreover, the bazooka fire team often had to expose their bodies in order to obtain a clear field of fire against an armored target. Casualties among bazooka team members were extremely high during the war, and assignment to such duty in the face of German counterfire was typically regarded by other platoon members as not only highly dangerous, but nearly suicidal.

During the 1944 Allied offensive in France, when some examples of liaison aircraft with the U.S. Army began to be experimentally field-armed, and were already flying with pairs or quartets of the American ordnance — and most notably used during the Battle of Arracourt — Major Charles "Bazooka Charlie" Carpenter mounted a battery of three M9 bazookas on the wing-to-fuselage struts on each side of his L-4 Grasshopper aircraft in order to attack enemy armor, and was credited with destroying six enemy tanks, including two Tiger I heavy tanks

General Dwight Eisenhower later described it as one of the four "Tools of Victory" which won World War II for the Allies (together with the atom bomb, Jeep and the C-47 Skytrain transport aircraft.

I think that decreasing the number of bazookas is against the general rule of quantity vs quality. As

At least 476,628 Bazookas and 15,603,000 rockets of all types had been produced by the end of World War II

it would be stupidity to leave 2 only bazookas for 1 US player. In reality it is 1 bazooka for 12 men (estimating), and 1 bazooka rocket for 0,5 man statistically. There were almost more bazooka rockets than US soldiers in the whole war. I never realized that it was such a popular weapon.

[Warhawks97]

Thats it, you and warhawks playing bk/ armor doc in 90% matches, sure you want to make game more comfortable for yourself. You know that i playing all docs exept RE, and there is nothing easily than smashing AB with BK. Do you remember our 1v1 where you wanted to prove me how "op" is aiborne? How much time was enough for you, 20 mins? All air units were killed with first ostwind and storntroopees squad. You d better learn to play instead going to forum with complains everytime when somebody wrecked you.

wow... not really true. I am playing a lot inf doc and with BK more often with stormtoopers than with heavy tanks.


Neither should tanks be absolutely everything shred machines and inf should have its use but also running out of cover when a tank shoots with 3 mgs just to get into schreck range, doing a shot and retreat with just 1 men down is also highly crap for sure.

The game shouldnt be only won by tanks with lots of mgs but also not by simply rushing tanks frontally and killing tank armies with like 2 inf squads. Sometimes two squads with some picked up AT´s can bring fear to a horde of medium tanks and esspecially vehicles by ruhsing stupidly frontally. Booth tactics arent really smart. But more or less fact is that tanks have to fear a lot. There are AT guns, 88´s, hidden TH´s, enemie tanks etc which all forces tank players to be carefully. Whereas late game inf ignores many anti inf weapons like HMG´s and thus being able to overrun those and at the same time doing a quick shot on a vehicle or tank.

The reason i do mainly use stormtoopers with BK doc (after ive got my first tank IV´s) instead tanks for a period of the time is because its less risky for me. with 2 stormtooper squads with schrecks, 1 leader and one AT squad i can overrung mgs and engaging tanks at the same time. With vet 3 even CW AA tanks arent much of a problem anymore. I may take some losses but the tank is damaged and killed with the next schreck rush.


Ok, i dont mind about the loadout and how many AT´s can be picke up. That should be up to everyones personal decision how to equip squads. Still a bit more realistic use and behaviour of Hendheld AT´s wouldnt hurt.

And as you say learn to combine your armies same could be said about inf with hendheld AT. Tanks need inf support as protection against enemie inf. Thats true and realistic. But at the same time Inf should need some support of own tanks or TH´s when there is an enemie tank on a field with lots of mgs. Means a tank that is attacking needs inf that clears out enemie ambushes and that protects the tanks flank against inf with hendheld AT. But at the same time i simply think that inf should need friendly tanks or paks or TH´s when trying to knock out an enemie tank that is placed on a field and which has a clear view in all directions. Currently it looks for me that tanks need inf more than inf needs tanks. Esspecially when playing as axis (or US AB).

But i agree. AB is actually quite vulnerable to either Terror grens with incendiary rounds and stgs or BK doc with its stormtoopers supported by Ostwind.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Hahahahaahaha; these facts that are posted regarding the actual number of Bazookas during the ww2 are funny for sure... Well, every single German soldier then should have a PanzerFaust equipped for free??!! xD

If there are less numbers of handheld AT weapons on the field btw.. this will also make mobile paks more reliable as that u can't rush them frontally as well with 2 Schrecks and just finishing them all too fast!!! But this will require less HP to all emplacement versions in a result maybe.

All of what Hawks said now is logic and true....

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Inf actually needs tanks support, its hard to imagine successfull rush without jumbo\tiger or whatever, because a single mg42\ostwind\m4 HE will stop all your inf than.

[Warhawks97]

Inf actually needs tanks support, its hard to imagine successfull rush without jumbo\tiger or whatever, because a single mg42\ostwind\m4 HE will stop all your inf than.

depends. Keep running untill the HE sherman made a shot and then stop. During sprint the squad is less blobbed and harder to hit and you may lose no men or 1-3 (depending on each units vet). And two squads from two directions will make a hit for sure anyway.

Mg42 stops inf actually but in late game players seldomly rebuild a stationary 350/30 weapon crew. AB would call off map mortar maybe or depending on vet killing it with flame nade.

hard to rush without tiger or jumbo? i cant understand what you mean actually. Rushing anti inf tanks/vehicles is depending on units vets and some skill but not impossible. Two squads not blobbed and its no more problem. But the main part of vehicles and tanks are not speciliazed anti (still having many but usless MG´s) inf and thus being rushed quite easily (Heavy tanks do survive due to their armor).

i am gtg right now. cu later in the evening