Pershing ACE

[idliketoplaybetter]

Also, comparing this with Attack Ground is just super misleading, such a bad example in my opinion.
This is an ability that requires veteran crew & capable long range cannon, it's not for free.

Is this a real life?

I said, this ability, is basically what people already tend to use and by adding ALRS, you are basically getting it by default with perfect hit option. Ace is being ace by default. Saying it requires anything or not, does not change the fact of anything, since you are getting already vetted Unit.

Come now.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Also, comparing this with Attack Ground is just super misleading, such a bad example in my opinion.
This is an ability that requires veteran crew & capable long range cannon, it's not for free.

Is this a real life?

I said, this ability, is basically what people already tend to use and by adding ALRS, you are basically getting it by default with perfect hit option. Ace is being ace by default. Saying it requires anything or not, does not change the fact of anything, since you are getting already vetted Unit.

Come now.

I feel like u r arguing just for the sake of arguing...

Here is a short response;
You get what u pay for, the ability on ACE units is a portion of what u pay.

You pay a high price to get this "perfect hit option" by first paying for this certain tank & then also by paying for the ability that requires both ammo & view.. yet can bounce off. So, it can actually lead to a waste.

Plz stop comparing this with "Hit Ground" because it's nonsense.

[idliketoplaybetter]

I have pointed what I think it will add up to the game and by adding the comparison to attack ground move just described tendency. I am also talking of specific stage of the game (late) and specific units (tank play/expensive heavy hitters).

It is already full of mancing and long shotting.

This will make Ace persh seeing more often, as well as, make matches longer for no reason by adding Out of reach hit and run option.
If that's already not enough..

This will not stimulate players to make fun moves and risky plays, just Cooldown shoot with tons of ammo, Armor doc normally left of with.

[idliketoplaybetter]

Also, u can counter ALRS with.. ALRS too!

This is the only words I need to make my point. Stand still and ALRS all day long.

[Krieger Blitzer]

This is quite a catastrophic analysis, and rather an extreme approach on how u might look into it.


it's not like we are giving this ability to all tanks in the game.. so i can't see how everything will suddenly turn into "ALRS all day along" by just having 2 units of opposing sides (Tiger Ace & Pershing Ace) with this ability right on.

I would maybe get what u mean if it was suggested to give it to all Pershings, but this didn't happen.
The suggestion is to give it only for Pershing Ace, so that it can compete with late game heavy Axis tanks at the stage of the game where this unit is finally available, so that it doesn't always get over-shadowed by the SP tank.

Moreover; even by allowing this to the Firefly.. still i wouldn't see how ur exaggeration applies.
Given that Fireflys would only have it with veterancy, which is very hard to achieve with a Firefly due to being quite fragile.

[idliketoplaybetter]

All tanks or not, more to say, why not all tanks after all? Why just Firefly and Persh Ace. Cause not used majorly now? hmm

Not like all tanks are required late game anyway. Nor Firefly is used when Comet is available or needed if you succeeded with Rocket planes? Have enough arty to keep any Axis heavy locked?, nor pz4 is if you can get Panther/Tiger/KT.

Same with this.

You lose pershing, game holds (if), u get SP, u lose SP/win the game.
You lose basic pershing, game holds, comeback from axis with Tigerace (for example) - Pershing ace. Game holds again, aber this time you get funny long range micro game..

That does not include real late game Arty usage and pressure on All the heavy hitters already and so on.

My point was will this make game fun? Will this change it to pfffun? I doubt it. I dont get how 1click anything is fun.

[Krieger Blitzer]

My point was will this make game fun? Will this change it to pfffun? I doubt it. I dont get how 1click anything is fun.

So, i see how u don't disagree that it's fair for the Pershing ACE to have it.. but rather just questioning whether it will be fun this way or not?

Well, the phrase "fun" is very subjective.
As an example, snipers (for some people) aren't fun.. for others; a very rewarding unique unit to play with & challenging to maintain alive on the other hand.. which is fun.

Most importantly that it's fair and makes sense.. that's what matters the most.

Also, for me the ALRS is super fun and a great ability to see in CoH, others might view it differently.. but the way how this ability is currently represented in game, is only fair. So, nothing to complain about...

The ability also can lead u to defeat btw, as mentioned.. if u use it on heavily armored targets and u keep bouncing off.. u will waste ammo! And eventually this can cost u the entire game later on.
Which means that using this ability is a double-edged sword.. spamming it is no option.

Therefore; i wouldn't really agree that ALRS is a plain "1 click" ability because there is more to it than just that.
it's not a valid comprehensive approach - from a game-play perspective - to claim the ALRS ability as brainless.

[idliketoplaybetter]

Also, for me the ALRS is super fun and a great ability to see in CoH,

Ye amazing Ikr. It is also kinda unique ability and suits well for the Tiger ace, as it's normally outnumbered in a proper game, once you called it.

Unique, lost somewhere behind the threads and posts..

Mirrored docs and games. Whatever.., I tried and I'm tired of this.

Hopefully somebody will read through my words and find common subjective experience in 'em and we will never have to argue on either it matters or not.

Is this a real life?

[Krieger Blitzer]

Ye amazing Ikr. It is also kinda unique ability and suits well for the Tiger ace, as it's normally outnumbered in a proper game, once you called it.

Yup, definitely fair.

Unique, lost somewhere behind the threads and posts..

Mirrored docs and games.

Nope, adding it to Pershing Ace (or Firefly) won't make ALRS less unique.. nor would it be any mirrored.
Pershing Ace isn't that common, and Firefly doesn't live long.

Ability remains unique as it's accessible only via Ace units or long range dedicated tanks with experienced crew.

Mirrored also not.. otherwise, would having "snipers" being available on both sides be considered mirrored? No.
it is considered just tricky, as both sides would need to be more careful using their snipers.. but isn't mirrored.

Having the same unit pre-set & same unit charastraestics is considered mirrored.. where this isn't the case.

[idliketoplaybetter]

I totally agree now, so tempting to see it. Sounds exciting somehow after this, as well as the next patch, people asking for Panthers to be buffed.

But let's not mind it now, we have been there before, will be again, it's alright. Dev's have all day to change it back and forth. That's the reason, ironically..

[tarakancheg]

Also, comparing this with Attack Ground is just super misleading, such a bad example in my opinion.
This is an ability that requires veteran crew & capable long range cannon, it's not for free.

Is this a real life?

I said, this ability, is basically what people already tend to use and by adding ALRS, you are basically getting it by default with perfect hit option. Ace is being ace by default. Saying it requires anything or not, does not change the fact of anything, since you are getting already vetted Unit.

Come now.

I feel like u r arguing just for the sake of arguing...

Here is a short response;
You get what u pay for, the ability on ACE units is a portion of what u pay.

You pay a high price to get this "perfect hit option" by first paying for this certain tank & then also by paying for the ability that requires both ammo & view.. yet can bounce off. So, it can actually lead to a waste.

Plz stop comparing this with "Hit Ground" because it's nonsense.

I don't think that Pershing ace needs ALRS. With command car it already outranges a tiger, has rapid firing from the start (which tigers don't have at all) and it reliably 1 shots panthers which will result in 50Muni for a panther kill, after after that people will complain that panther can't do anything against pershing and we will come back to a 3 month panther debate.
I am against ALRS for Pershing and propose that we make a new ability for it like longer aim time but +acc/pen.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I don't think that Pershing ace needs ALRS. With command car it already outranges a tiger, has rapid firing from the start (which tigers don't have at all) and it reliably 1 shots panthers which will result in 50Muni for a panther kill, after after that people will complain that panther can't do anything against pershing and we will come back to a 3 month panther debate.
I am against ALRS for Pershing and propose that we make a new ability for it like longer aim time but +acc/pen.

The Pershing ACE isn't on the same league as Panthers to begin with, not even Tiger ACE or Panther ACE.

With the current doctrine design; Pershing ACE is on the same league as JagdTiger, King Tiger, etc.. given how it's available at 12 CPs.
So, if the Pershing ACE obliterates Panthers, that's totally fine.. and complaints about this won't be valid.

The "50 ammo kill on Panthers" is negated by the fact that u don't have a SP in return.. which means that Pershing Ace would be ur top-gun tank.
SP does already out-range 1-shot kill Panthers without even paying 50 ammo.. and is also more armoured, so even tougher to take out.

So, if the SP eats Panthers, the Pershing Ace would still do the same.. but would need to pay little extra, at higher distance; but with the disadvantage of the shot likely bouncing off.

Keep in mind as well:

However; the Rapid Shots get removed from Pershing ACE in return, normal Pershings keep it.

So, the Pershing Ace won't have Rapid Firing according to the suggestion.

Not to mention Panthers can get the same range buff using Command Panzer4 tank, btw.

[MEFISTO]

I don't think that Pershing ace needs ALRS. With command car it already outranges a tiger, has rapid firing from the start (which tigers don't have at all) and it reliably 1 shots panthers which will result in 50Muni for a panther kill, after after that people will complain that panther can't do anything against pershing and we will come back to a 3 month panther debate.
I am against ALRS for Pershing and propose that we make a new ability for it like longer aim time but +acc/pen.

The Pershing ACE isn't on the same league as Panthers to begin with, not even Tiger ACE or Panther ACE.

With the current doctrine design; Pershing ACE is on the same league as JagdTiger, King Tiger, etc.. given how it's available at 12 CPs.
So, if the Pershing ACE obliterates Panthers, that's totally fine.. and complaints about this won't be valid.

The "50 ammo kill on Panthers" is negated by the fact that u don't have a SP in return.. which means that Pershing Ace would be ur top-gun tank.
SP does already out-range 1-shot kill Panthers without even paying 50 ammo.. and is also more armoured, so even tougher to take out.

So, if the SP eats Panthers, the Pershing Ace would still do the same.. but would need to pay little extra, at higher distance; but with the disadvantage of the shot likely bouncing off.

Keep in mind as well:

However; the Rapid Shots get removed from Pershing ACE in return, normal Pershings keep it.

So, the Pershing Ace won't have Rapid Firing according to the suggestion.

Not to mention Panthers can get the same range buff using Command Panzer4 tank, btw.

Can you tell me, in what league is the Panther? I know 90mm gun and 17 pounder have to be effective vs panther but from the panther side, no HP to fight back if survive one hit.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Panther (including the ACE) is on the same league as jacksons, Tigers, (normal) Pershings, Comets, etc.
And in that they perform just fine for their current price.

However; as mentioned.. the Pershing Ace isn't from that category, as it shares the same unlock of the Super Pershing tank.. and this is a very late game stage, where the most advanced Axis tanks are deployed... Such as KT, JT, JP, on and on.

[MEFISTO]

Panther (including the ACE) is on the same league as jacksons, Tigers, (normal) Pershings, Comets, etc.
And in that they perform just fine for their current price.

However; as mentioned.. the Pershing Ace isn't from that category, as it shares the same unlock of the Super Pershing tank.. and this is a very late game stage, where the most advanced Axis tanks are deployed... Such as KT, JT, JP, on and on.

Panther is not in that league, panther can’t fight back a 90mm gun, and Tiger almost doble its HP.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Panthers are surely in that league, just the same way how Comets are.. just that the way how each of them is used is different; but they belong to the same category.

Normal Pershing might have advantage vs Panthers, but they are also slightly more expensive and still later available.. yet they belong to the same league.

Though, using this same argument you had with Panthers... i can say that Pershing ACE is useless at 12 CPs without ALRS to fight anything back.

[MEFISTO]

Just saying, I am not against ALRS for Pershing ace, but panthers are going to be even more easy to counter in a doctrine that only have this panthers to counter Allies heavy tanks. Just saying.

[MEFISTO]

Panthers are surely in that league, just the same way how Comets are.. just that the way how each of them is used is different; but they belong to the same category.

Normal Pershing might have advantage vs Panthers, but they are also slightly more expensive and still later available.. yet they belong to the same league.

Though, using this same argument you had with Panthers... i can say that Pershing ACE is useless at 12 CPs without ALRS to fight anything back.

That is why people ask to have Pershing ace after SP is destroyed.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Well, as a lover of Panthers & Tigers myself; i'm absolutely not concerned.

I think that Pershing ACE with ALRS ability doesn't have a negative impact on Panthers at any level.

Playing the Blitz doc, normally u should have the Panther ACE on the field much earlier than the Ace Pershing appears.

And even earlier u would have the Tiger Ace as Propaganda...

SE doc would have Elefant or Nashorn ready long before.. and ALRS vs Elefant at that range is going to be waste of ammo.
Not to mention Elefant can strike back with ALRS too.


The idea of allowing Pershing ACE after SP death is cool, and was suggested several times before.
I would be down to either allow Pershing Ace after SP, or give Pershing ACE the ALRS ability.

And i honestly prefer the 2nd option.

[MEFISTO]

.

I think that Pershing ACE with ALRS ability doesn't have a negative impact on Panthers at any level.

How this ALRS is not going to impact on panthers when a 90mm gun can one shot panther, and in this case from a distance that may be the panther is not aware of the Pershing ace presence to back up before get one shot?
And base on what you’re saying bk doctrine have to win the game before Pershing Ace comes out to the battlefield.
I don’t really feel like talking about panthers, the damage is already done.
I don’t mind giving Ace ALRS.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I don’t mind giving Ace ALRS.

Good.



Though; u seem to be worried about Panthers.
I am not worried as much.. the Pershing ACE isn't that hard to kill, unlike the SP.

And by the time it arrives; Axis arsenal would have everything necessary to crush it, and the opponent would have a long cool-down before they could bring another.

Note:
Don't forget Blitz doc also get Stuka airstrike.. which can now 1 shot Pershing on direct hit.
Armor has no planes.

[Consti255]

I don’t mind giving Ace ALRS.

Good.



Though; u seem to be worried about Panthers.
I am not worried as much.. the Pershing ACE isn't that hard to kill, unlike the SP.

And by the time it arrives; Axis arsenal would have everything necessary to crush it, and the opponent would have a long cool-down before they could bring another.

Note:
Don't forget Blitz doc also get Stuka airstrike.. which can now 1 shot Pershing on direct hit.
Armor has no planes.

I agree here.
I doint think Panthers will suffer too much from that.

[Viper]

I agree here.
I doint think Panthers will suffer too much from that.

yes
+1

[Consti255]

Just keep in mind that the ALRS doesnt boost up pen values, so shooting a Panther on Max range with a 90mm isnt a guranteed pen, nor close to it.

Useing AP sets the damage down and doesnt one shot anymore, so getting sniped and getting oneshoted wont be that often.

Approaching a Pershing with a Panther is anyway kinda risky after the changes, so i advice just to use shreks, which anyway are not to hard to use against a pershing and have a more reliable chance to pen, then Bazookas against a Panther.

[MEFISTO]

I also think Armor doctrine should be able to get Pershing Ace after SP is dead.