Wehrmacht officers offmap mortar strike. Nerf or remove.

[Simon]

Watched a recent match of Tarakanchegs. Too powerful AND unrealistic.

[Warhawks97]

Watched a recent match of Tarakanchegs. Too powerful AND unrealistic.

its a voch remnant. It is, hands down, one of the best commander abilities. Usually such a thing is only unlocked in specific docs like for the RA doc and requires CP.

Quite a long time ago i made a list of how to rework WH officer abilities to be unlocked after doctrinal picks and more variety. But so far WH officers still use a huge set of default abilities which are super powerfull while having even more added depending on your doctrinal pick.

[tarakancheg]

Watched a recent match of Tarakanchegs. Too powerful AND unrealistic.

its a voch remnant. It is, hands down, one of the best commander abilities. Usually such a thing is only unlocked in specific docs like for the RA doc and requires CP.

This ability is locked behind t4 phase instead of cp and I don't know why no-one is talking about PE 20mm car that has this ability cheaper. IMO they both should cost 125 Muni.

[Walderschmidt]

I think it’s fine as is. Its range is limited, it’s situational, and reliant on someone protecting a 260mp purchase long enough for it to arrive on target.

Wald

[Krieger Blitzer]

i also think the mortar strike abilities are totally fine as they are currently.

[Simon]

k keep it BUT a few questions. What size are the mortar shells and how does a mortar shoot that far? And in battle from ww2 till now when have soldiers lined up a lot of mortars and absolutely crunched another side? like i mean with all those mortars coming down, there must be a good ten mortars firing at once. surely a good move would be to call it an arty strike and tweak the graphics of the "mortar strike" just a little.

[Warhawks97]

Basically this ability (as well as the one from PE vehicles) is an orbital bombardment. There is no weapon on earth that would work this way (SE Firestorm and prop doc super artillery death strike are also some kind of oribtal bombardment ability.

The RA doc arty strike call in is much better implemented. The same is true for AB mortar strike ability or BK stromtrooper off map mortar strike. They look at least like mortar strikes. They are effective to take out a certain target (eg AT gun) without being completely obliterting a huge area with a super dense orbital bombardment. Its one of those abilities that got simply taken over from vcoh without ever questioning it. I mean you can still see the "tracer" from those "mortar shells"(I wouldnt even call it mortar strike tbh. It absolutely doesnt look like it). I use similiar abilities when i play Dota 2 with heroes like Skywarth Mage.

[MarKr]

k keep it BUT a few questions. What size are the mortar shells and how does a mortar shoot that far? And in battle from ww2 till now when have soldiers lined up a lot of mortars and absolutely crunched another side? like i mean with all those mortars coming down, there must be a good ten mortars firing at once. surely a good move would be to call it an arty strike and tweak the graphics of the "mortar strike" just a little.

We never accept r"ealism" as the primary argument when people want some change. You can use it as a supportive argument but we will not change something because "explain how this realistically works".

This way, I could ask how 6 Pioneers can build a factory made out of concrete in 30 seconds while just swinging shovels, and how such a factory can assemble a tank in 20 seconds. How is it possible that when mortars and howitzers shoot at "Victor target", they can shoot farther away than they normmally can. How is it possible that some squad just magically materializes a new weapon in their hand (when you buy an upgrade) without any need to go back to base to get the weapon or having some sort of supply truck nearby. Or why do all units have absolutely unlimitted ammo. And there would be hundreds of other examples where the game doesn't make sense from the realistic point of view.

So if you say the ability should be changed because it is too strong beacuse (gameplay reason), then OK. If you say that the ability should be changed because "rEaLiSm", then it's a dead end.

[Warhawks97]

k keep it BUT a few questions. What size are the mortar shells and how does a mortar shoot that far? And in battle from ww2 till now when have soldiers lined up a lot of mortars and absolutely crunched another side? like i mean with all those mortars coming down, there must be a good ten mortars firing at once. surely a good move would be to call it an arty strike and tweak the graphics of the "mortar strike" just a little.

We never accept r"ealism" as the primary argument when people want some change. You can use it as a supportive argument but we will not change something because "explain how this realistically works".

This way, I could ask how 6 Pioneers can build a factory made out of concrete in 30 seconds while just swinging shovels, and how such a factory can assemble a tank in 20 seconds. How is it possible that when mortars and howitzers shoot at "Victor target", they can shoot farther away than they normmally can. How is it possible that some squad just magically materializes a new weapon in their hand (when you buy an upgrade) without any need to go back to base to get the weapon or having some sort of supply truck nearby. Or why do all units have absolutely unlimitted ammo. And there would be hundreds of other examples where the game doesn't make sense from the realistic point of view.

So if you say the ability should be changed because it is too strong beacuse (gameplay reason), then OK. If you say that the ability should be changed because "rEaLiSm", then it's a dead end.

That doesnt change the fact that it just stayed the way it is since the creation of BK mod without any debate. Personally i like the way how other factions handle such abilities better because they are extremley powerfull obviously. One partly well placed off map can decide entire games. On top of that the officer can become the unit with the highest kill score in the game. At least i had such scenarios where my officer made the majority of kills in a game which kicks a snowball effect by getting veterancy lvls without any fighting required.

Its quite easy to unlock also, esspecially in HR games you can have this ability unlocked after like 6-8 minutes into the game.


RA doc has to pay CP´s first at least before you can use it. Same with AB doc before you can use your HQ squad with off map mortar. BK doc stromtroopers also require CP´s to get the unit. And all these abilities are generally far less deadly and affect a much smaller area.

For basic officers to have such abilities available, it should require a doctrine and a CP unlock. Otherwise you could just create a stalemate, tec asap and bombard everything without any CP requirments.

So i would like to see at least a doctrinal need and perhaps a CP spending for it. There are a lot of things that are far less impactfull and powerfull but still require a doctrine and CP´s.

Also change this ability as well as the one from PE Th doc vehicle off map strike. Make it less like an brutal orbital bombardment and make it become a normal off map mortar strike similiar to Bk doc stormtroopers or AB doc off map mortar strike. Alternatively the officer off map could be different from doc to doc. Like def doc officer can call in an arty strike once a certain unlock arty branch is unlocked.


Edit: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3349&p=31390&hilit ... ies#p31390

Here i already said that the many abilties the officer has should be distributed among the doctrines. Def doc gets an off mao arty call in on friently ground for the officer, BK doc keeps supervision and Prop doc gets heroic charge ability instead of having everything in every doctrine,

[Krieger Blitzer]

I don't think this ability is too powerful or anything, it requires T4 tech.. and your soldiers would often shout "arty incoming" when the ability is called on them.. giving you enough time to evade. Also, you can see the officer is immobile for the duration of the ability as it's being called in.. the range is also limited, costs a 100 ammo and the cool-down time is long... Thus, i honestly don't see any valid reasons why this ability should change.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I think this ability is absolutely fine. You’d better take a look at Inf doc 105mm off map. It’s quite crappy for its cost.

[Simon]

Company of Halo: Orbital Strikes

[Diablo]

I think the ability is too strong. My suggestion would be to increase the time between landing shells and maybe reduce the overall amount of hits. To compensate, the radius could be decreased so as to make the ability accurately decimate a single, sluggish target (e.g. AT gun). Infantry squad wipes would be more rare.

I don't know the specifics of the "weaker" AB & BK doc mortar strikes, but people seem to think the are fine. Maybe just copy their ability to the WH officer.

[Warhawks97]

The AB doc and BK doc leader squad are the real off map mortar strikes. They are deadly, but on point. So perfect to take out weapon crews and or inf that doesnt move and so on. Its deadly but overall feels more reasonable and balanced. The officer strike is really more of an orbital strike or perhaps he is actually a mage that decided to participate in ww2.

Perhaps Nazis had really been on the moon and Mars and also found Atlantis.

[Consti255]

AB doc mortar strike is absolute crap compared to the 81mm WH and PE strikes.

I would go the other route, i would like to see a AB doc mortar strike change/buff while the recent 81mm strikes stay untouched.
Blitz commander can even crawl and use it in camo which is really damn good and i like it that way.
They are behind CP or ALOT of tiering.

Its just depressing to use for 3 CP in total when the other docs can do a 81mm for the same cost in CP (which even has a unit cooldown and not a global cooldown) or just for tiering.


The HR game argument doesnt mean anything, since the enemy does tier in the same speed. Which means faster light howitzer support aswell.

[CGarr]

I have mixed feelings about this ability. It's absurdly strong just by virtue of how heavily it saturates the target area with mortar shells (wipes are almost assured if you don't immediately retreat when you hear the sound queue). That being said, it is dodgeable, the sound queues are just really quiet and you need to react immediately when the barrage is called in. I'd be fine with it staying the same or being changed to something similar to what AB doc or BK doc have, as mentioned above.

I do agree that AB either shouldn't have to pay CP for that ability. It should be available by default. Maybe make the unlock a reduced cooldown instead, or have it be followed up by smoke shells.

TS doc needed it quite badly back before they got the Wespe. My original suggestion was that they be heavily reliant on call-in arty rather than arty units, so that the arty was used for quick pushes rather than for winning via attrition. Now, its not really necessary, but still nice to have on the armor car. A flame mortar shell call-in might make more sense though.

On a relate note, the 105mm call-ins ( the ones available inf doc, TS doc, armor doc) in general are quite underwhelming for their cost. They could prob use a cost reduction or buff, IMO.

[Consti255]

I have mixed feelings about this ability. It's absurdly strong just by virtue of how heavily it saturates the target area with mortar shells (wipes are almost assured if you don't immediately retreat when you hear the sound queue). That being said, it is dodgeable, the sound queues are just really quiet and you need to react immediately when the barrage is called in. I'd be fine with it staying the same or being changed to something similar to what AB doc or BK doc have, as mentioned above.

I do agree that AB either shouldn't have to pay CP for that ability. It should be available by default. Maybe make the unlock a reduced cooldown instead, or have it be followed up by smoke shells.

TS doc needed it quite badly back before they got the Wespe. My original suggestion was that they be heavily reliant on call-in arty rather than arty units, so that the arty was used for quick pushes rather than for winning via attrition. Now, its not really necessary, but still nice to have on the armor car. A flame mortar shell call-in might make more sense though.

On a relate note, the 105mm call-ins ( the ones available inf doc, TS doc, armor doc) in general are quite underwhelming for their cost. They could prob use a cost reduction or buff, IMO.

agreed.