Beta Stormtroopers

[MEFISTO]

Please bring back the stormtroopers with stg44, this G43 load out will just kill an iconic unit from bk doctrine. I had couple of game and this load out don'r make any sence since bk doctrine has supression squad for long range and Volks with mg34.
Stromtroopers are assault units, the elit infantry of bk doctrine, they should be the ones infiltarting buildings and have the stg44 load out.

[CGarr]

The urban assault stormtroopers are still an option, no? The change was just to make it so that they don't overlap with the ones that are equipped with rifles, if I'm understanding it correctly. In the live version, both the urban assault storms and rifle storms upgrade to have STGs, which begs the question of why there's even a distinction between the 2 (as far as I'm aware, they're identical aside from their weapon loadouts).

[tarakancheg]

Imagine reading patch notes completely
"There was a discussion about the purpose of "normal" Stormtroopers in the BK doctrine, saying that their loadout after upgrades is the same and what not. There was a suggestion to give these units a G43 upgrade instead of StG44 to "make them more suited for long range combat". We honestly think it will actually make them worse at long range combat than sticking to their stock Kar98s but at the same time the change will make a better distinction between the Storms and Urban Storms so we decided to give it a shot."

[Warhawks97]

thing is we dont have an real stormtrooper assault squad available anymore in the Halftrack. Or has there been a change?

[tarakancheg]

K98 storms now have g43 instead of stg44 mp40 storms (UAS) still get 5 stgs

[MEFISTO]

K98 storms now have g43 instead of stg44 mp40 storms (UAS) still get 5 stgs

My question is, why an assault urban squad when bk doctrine already had stormtroopers and they worked perfectly fine before this new unit came out? Basically this change is going to make an iconic doctrine unit like stormtroopers die. This doctrine already lost The Tiger ace another iconic unit that was with stormtroopers the soul of bk doctrine, my favorite doctrine since I started playing VCOH and BK along time ago, I really feel sorry for my favorite doctrine, sad.

[tarakancheg]

Haven't seen anyone bothered about storms till now. Everyone seems fine with UAS which is basically the same unit that has different name and icon.

[MEFISTO]

Haven't seen anyone bothered about storms till now. Everyone seems fine with UAS which is basically the same unit that has different name and icon.

What was the idea behind this UAS having stormtroopers doing the same job before USA came out? What is the difference between the old Stormtroopers and the new UAS?
If they were the same what is the purpose of the UAS? Just replace an iconic unit? This change is just going to make a legendary unit die.

[tarakancheg]

Their purpose was to have a different starting loadout with mp40 instead of k98 for close combat till stgs are unlocked which made storms obsolete (you still could get them from barracks) so for a sake of making this unit useful again a change to weapon upgrades was made.

[Krieger Blitzer]

MEFISTO,

UAS is Storms, there is no difference between regular Storms & UAS, they are identical.

UAS can be called in from off-map for 450 MP (can also spawn in houses) or they can be deployed from Barracks for 360MP.

Regular Storms are deployed from Barracks or the HT, and costs 360MP as well.

UAS has MP40s and can upgrade to StG & Shreck.
Regular Storms have K98 and can upgrade to G43 & Shreck (used to be StG & Shreck).

So where is the problem now?

We just need Demo Storm squad to get MP40 instead of Kars by default.

[Warhawks97]

I actually agree with mefisto. There was no need for having this two types of stormtroopers now. Makes things just more complicate.

The easiest way would have been to just have storms starting like the UAS squad (1x STG, 5x MP40) and then having simply a G43 as a package available that replaces the MP40´s or an STG package that adds 2 or more stgs to the squad. I dont see at all why we need a storm squad that starts with K98´s.

I find it silly not to have a storm squad available to be deployed by the Halftrack and using close range weapons. I either have to do expensive house spawns or waiting a long time to get the UAS from the barracks. Thats just dump.

[MEFISTO]

Their purpose was to have a different starting loadout with mp40 instead of k98 for close combat till stgs are unlocked which made storms obsolete (you still could get them from barracks) so for a sake of making this unit useful again a change to weapon upgrades was made.

Then why instead a new unit just don’t give stormtroopers the mp40 instead a kr98? From my perspective this change is going to make stormtroopers less useful than before to be honest. Suppression stormtroopers and Volks with mg34 are way better as a long range unit and cost less ammunition. This new stormtroopers are naked at close range, crawl ability is no worth any more for them.
I feel sorry stormtroopers RIP🪦.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Whether it's 1 unit or 2 unit, both are Storms.. just different weapon load-out.
Players can use the one they prefer based on the situation.

I am fine with the change.

[Warhawks97]

Whether it's 1 unit or 2 unit, both are Storms.. just different weapon load-out.
Players can use the one they prefer based on the situation.

I am fine with the change.

dude, we dont get any stg unit out of the halftrack anymore. And that sucks.

Also it just adds unnecessary stuff that complicates gameplay and causing confusing. A Unit called Stormtrooper that cant even get an actual assault weapon. Like for real, its like adding an AB squad called 102nd AB squad that is the exact same as the 101st just that it starts with Thompsons instead of Carabines.

Technically, if we have just one squad starting with STG and MP40 and having STG, G43 and schreck as possible upgrades would bring the same results but with less hassle and without making things more complicate.

I mean does anyone deploy Storms to keep them with K98? Personally i dont think so. So let them start with a close range weapon loadout with the option to go G43 or for more STG 44.... makes things a hell lot easier and practical.

[MEFISTO]

MEFISTO,

UAS is Storms, there is no difference between regular Storms & UAS, they are identical.

UAS can be called in from off-map for 450 MP (can also spawn in houses) or they can be deployed from Barracks for 360MP.

Regular Storms are deployed from Barracks or the HT, and costs 360MP as well.

UAS has MP40s and can upgrade to StG & Shreck.
Regular Storms have K98 and can upgrade to G43 & Shreck (used to be StG & Shreck).

So where is the problem now?

We just need Demo Storm squad to get MP40 instead of Kars by default.

Bro I play historical add on, I really love stormtroopers and the legend behind them, may be my problem is just because I used to love the old bk doctrine and I feel like my favorite doctrine is just braking a part, may be is just that.
But if the reason for the new unit is a Kr98 and mp40, why don’t just give the mp40 to stormtroopers? I am sure 100% stormtroopers and AUS HP and combat stats are different. I actually would love to see their stats

[Walderschmidt]

I don’t understand this post.

There are two stormtrooper squads in barracks.

1) Stormtroopers that come out with K98s.
2) Urban Assault Squad (Stormtroopers) that come out with an STG and MP40s.

Nothing has been removed from the doctrine. Only the K98k stormtrooper squad has been made more useful by giving it the ability to upgrade with G43s.

Wald

[tarakancheg]

I don’t understand this post.

There are two stormtrooper squads in barracks.

1) Stormtroopers that come out with K98s.
2) Urban Assault Squad (Stormtroopers) that come out with an STG and MP40s.

Nothing has been removed from the doctrine. Only the K98k stormtrooper squad has been made more useful by giving it the ability to upgrade with G43s.

Wald

His point is that the name and icon are different.

[Warhawks97]

I don’t understand this post.

There are two stormtrooper squads in barracks.

1) Stormtroopers that come out with K98s.
2) Urban Assault Squad (Stormtroopers) that come out with an STG and MP40s.

Nothing has been removed from the doctrine. Only the K98k stormtrooper squad has been made more useful by giving it the ability to upgrade with G43s.

Wald

Is the UAS in the HT? If not, we dont get storms and stgs out of the HT anymore. That sucks.

Other than that, is there a need to make "k98 unit more usefull"? I mean the only reason we add the G43 is to able to have a reason to get K98 squad. So that implies for me nobody gets the K98 to have K98. So people will have either MP40/stg or G43. So why not having one squad starting the way current UAS does and add G43 as upgrades. why even bothering to keep the K98 when nobody builds them because of their K98

[MEFISTO]

I don’t understand this post.

There are two stormtrooper squads in barracks.

1) Stormtroopers that come out with K98s.
2) Urban Assault Squad (Stormtroopers) that come out with an STG and MP40s.

Nothing has been removed from the doctrine. Only the K98k stormtrooper squad has been made more useful by giving it the ability to upgrade with G43s.

Wald

His point is that the name and icon are different.

I am sure combat stats and HP are also different

[MarKr]

I am sure combat stats and HP are also different

I'm not sure what you mean by "combat stats" but they have exactly the same HP, both have the same suppression treshold (how quickly they get suppressed), both are affected by the stormtrooper passive unlock, get the same bonuses from the Stomrs command squad, they get the same bonuses from the Panther/StuG ability. They are literally the same soldiers.

The only stats that are different are the weapon stats but that is obvious as an MP40 will not have the same long range accuracy as a Kar98.

[MEFISTO]

I am sure combat stats and HP are also different

I'm not sure what you mean by "combat stats" but they have exactly the same HP, both have the same suppression treshold (how quickly they get suppressed), both are affected by the stormtrooper passive unlock, get the same bonuses from the Stomrs command squad, they get the same bonuses from the Panther/StuG ability. They are literally the same soldiers.

The only stats that are different are the weapon stats but that is obvious as an MP40 will not have the same long range accuracy as a Kar98.

Well then. At least make the “AUS” available from stormtroopers half truck.
But as an advance, I don’t think someone is going to pick the g43 unit over AUS or suppression storm, even Volks with lmg34 will perform better paying less ammunition at long range, plus g43 squads will be naked at close range. The only way this unit could be attractive is they get x1 LMG34, but that is up to you.

[Redgaarden]

I think we should revert to old change and remove storms from the barracks and just give old grenadiers with no mp44. No close range weapons at all.

Well then. At least make the “AUS” available from stormtroopers half truck.
But as an advance, I don’t think someone is going to pick the g43 unit over AUS or suppression storm, even Volks with lmg34 will perform better paying less ammunition at long range, plus g43 squads will be naked at close range. The only way this unit could be attractive is they get x1 LMG34, but that is up to you.

G43 is almost as insane close range as mp44. Anyone closing in on a g43 is going to die. And the elite Kar 98 would destroy volks even if they have mg34.
Markr even told us that G43 most likely wont make the squad better at long range. So the good thing with storms is how good they are without any muni cost.

And Panther ace functions identically as tiger ace just better since Panther ace has passive suppression system on all the time.

[MEFISTO]

I think we should revert to old change and remove storms from the barracks and just give old grenadiers with no mp44. No close range weapons at all.

Well then. At least make the “AUS” available from stormtroopers half truck.
But as an advance, I don’t think someone is going to pick the g43 unit over AUS or suppression storm, even Volks with lmg34 will perform better paying less ammunition at long range, plus g43 squads will be naked at close range. The only way this unit could be attractive is they get x1 LMG34, but that is up to you.

G43 is almost as insane close range as mp44. Anyone closing in on a g43 is going to die. And the elite Kar 98 would destroy volks even if they have mg34.
Markr even told us that G43 most likely wont make the squad better at long range. So the good thing with storms is how good they are without any muni cost.

And Panther ace functions identically as tiger ace just better since Panther ace has passive suppression system on all the time.

Panther because the low HP is one shot from any 90mm or 17p, and g43 rate of fire is way lower that stg 44 and both have similar stats at long range.

[MarKr]

Well then. At least make the “AUS” available from stormtroopers half truck.
But as an advance, I don’t think someone is going to pick the g43 unit over AUS or suppression storm, even Volks with lmg34 will perform better paying less ammunition at long range, plus g43 squads will be naked at close range. The only way this unit could be attractive is they get x1 LMG34, but that is up to you.

The performance of Volks with LMG is questionable. While the LMG gives some DPS boost through the RoF, the basic Kar98s of Storms have very high accuracy so those 5 rifles with their accuracy might be just as good. But I haven't done any calculations so I am not 100% sure.

I agree (and I said this in the post where this change was requested) that the G43s won't make the squad better at long range. What it might do, however, is to shift their effective combat range from "long" to "medium" and still give them a good defense at short range, as the G43 has a good damage-per-bullet and at short range they have pretty good RoF too.

You can still use the global ability to put your close range Storms (UAS) into a building. Do you really need them in the HT too?

Maybe my question would be: Have you played any games with it or are you requesting a change without even playing the game with it? Can you post some replay which shows how bad the Storms with G43 are?

[Warhawks97]

The performance of Volks with LMG is questionable. While the LMG gives some DPS boost through the RoF, the basic Kar98s of Storms have very high accuracy so those 5 rifles with their accuracy might be just as good. But I haven't done any calculations so I am not 100% sure.

I agree (and I said this in the post where this change was requested) that the G43s won't make the squad better at long range. What it might do, however, is to shift their effective combat range from "long" to "medium" and still give them a good defense at short range, as the G43 has a good damage-per-bullet and at short range they have pretty good RoF too.

The main question is: Do we need Storms with K98 at all? I never seen anyone leaving them with K98 unless he was completely stripped out of ammo. For me K98 storms never made sense so far. I did use them sometimes with an LMG 34, 4 K98 and that one leader STG. But since the loss of the LMG i didnt use storms with K98 at all. I am not spending this many MP and CPs just to have a unit that has a fighting style of normal Volksgrens or normal grens just to get mortared and artied.

I see a point in having G43 and stuff but i see no point in using them with K98 in late game when everything is happening fast in between arty, tanks and all that stuff.

So for the sake of easyness: Why not just having one squad called stormstroopers that can be deployed from houses, HT and barracks or off map and which come in with close range weapons. And then they can get more stgs or G43 to become a mid range unit.

You can still use the global ability to put your close range Storms (UAS) into a building. Do you really need them in the HT too?

absolutely yes. Like i didnt use the HT just as a base somewhere in between base and frontline to shorten the retreat path. I want into combat with them and quickly replaced losses of stormtroopers (for lower cost than house spawn) to keep the push going. I dont have any benefit from spawning an elite squad close to the front with rifles only. They wont keep my push going. The doctrine is about speed and aggressive pushes. Having no option to quickly resupply my forces with close range assault squads would hurt the gameplay massively. At least for me.

So yes, it is from utmost importance. And i would love to spawn close range assault squads right off the Halftrack. Its one of my biggest wishes for BK doc ever since. Now i am having no chances at all.

Maybe my question would be: Have you played any games with it or are you requesting a change without even playing the game with it? Can you post some replay which shows how bad the Storms with G43 are?

Its not about bad. The G43 is lethal as fuck. As i said: Do we even need a Storm squad that comes with K98 at all when they will be upgraded everytime anyways?