One little suggestion

[JimQwilleran]

GIVE THE BRITS AN EARLY AT GUN FFS!

Thank you

[Krieger Blitzer]

Well, this seem to be a good and a bad idea both at the same time.. because AT rifle boys are currently performing very well actually on several cases! Brits probably are already the most annoying faction against WH now... So I believe that adding any more early AT capabilities to them will just give no chance then to the early Puma this way!!

[JimQwilleran]

Remove non-historical idiotic Boys and give Brits a proper AT unit. Boys are the same thing like piats. They will miss a non moving target from 2 meters.... Boys need 4 or 3 shots to kill a scout car... Even if they manage to give 4 shots, half of them are missed... They are just a sick idea, same like shooting through walls PIAT with 5 shots needed to kill a Panzer IVE...

I officially demand British early AT not to be a huge bullshit!

And for people saying: "Drop glider and u have 6p.": When I want glider for 240 mp, I will have even 4 of them. Some maps are just small, no need to use glider at all. But why do I HAVE TO call a glider to make a basic at gun?! I need to pay 250 mp for a gun itself... That is 490 mp for under-performing gun, while all other factions have 37mm AT gun at start for 200 mp...

If I want to make 17p, I need to pass 3 stages of "base development" and they are moving too slowly anyway.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Well now, that's what I wanted to hear actually.. if it's all about removing the AT rifle boys while adding an early AT 2p gun to be instead of them... Then I really can't disagree on or with that to be honest!

[JimQwilleran]

It's not about adding a new unit like 2p, because I see that it's quite impossible that something entirely new to be added. Maybe because of lack of models or balancing issues... I just suggest adding 6p to command truck because Brits are really, really, really weak in the very early game. With one PE scout car and a bit of luck you can stop them for the rest of the game.

The problem is that brit units are very expensive in manpower. They are good in quality for sure, but even more expensive... When you make early game unequal for Brits it's impossible for them to come back. They can not accumulate enough units + they lack weapon shooting indirectly... (no good mortar and no mortar HT and mortar pit is a defensive weapon, dies easily with 1 grenade if not covered)

Units such as PE scout car and Sdkfz 234 (20mm) can stop and push Brits singlehandely. This is well-known that you can drive your car very close to Boys and kill them with mg/gun without them dealing serious damage or even hitting the car. Boys can be used effectively only when in very heavy cover, in open field, and when using both of them together. But even then at least one of those 2 squads will die (not to mention that this pathetic 3 men unit costs more then squad of 6 rifles/volks. Hmmmm is that the cost of their elite training?).

Aaand then when your "at defense" is weaken, enemy can push you easily with 2nd scout car which will drive to the front rapidly... That's it - game won with 2 scout cars.

[Warhawks97]

It's not about adding a new unit like 2p, because I see that it's quite impossible that something entirely new would be added. Maybe because of lack of models or balancing issues... I just suggest adding 6p to command truck because Brits are really, really, really weak in the very early game. WIth one PE scout car and a bit of luck you can stop them for the rest of the game.

The problem is that brit units are very expesive in manpower. They are good in quality for sure, but even more expesive... When you make early game unequal for Brits it's impossible for them to come back. They can not accumulate enough units + they lack weapon shoting indriectly... (no good mortar and no mortar HT and mortar pit is a defensive weapon, dies easily with 1 grenade if not covered)

Units such as PE scout car and Sdkfz 234 (20mm) can stop and push Brits singlehandely. This is well-known that you can drive your car very close to Boys and kill them with mg/gun without them dealing serious damage or even hitting the car. Boys can be used effectively only when in very heavy cover, in open field, and when using both of them together. But even then at least one of those 2 squads will die (not to mention that this pathetic 3 men unit costs more then squad of 6 rifles/volks. Hmmmm is that the cost of their elite training?).

Aaand then when your "at defence" is weaken, enemy can push you easily with 2nd scout car which will drive to the front rapidly... That's it - game won with 2 scout cars.

brits is hard to get an comeback. They may get a good start with early officer boosting inf, recce and glider stuff. But when this is stopped (20 mm kwk vehicles, scout vehicles, mortar ht and neblers its hard for a comeback wit brits. All units cost 300-400 mp and more but each single expensive unit cant turn anything really. Also they cant quickly rush anything easily frontally and kill it with zooks/rl/schrecks and run back and their inf simply sucks as offensive units. Once they leave cover they get shred like US rifles.


for the last sentence. I actually wait slightly out of range with schwimm and scout vehicle and when he attempts to close in for a shot i start attacking them. Two bursts and they are dead. That way games can be won in about 4 mins. A 28 mm to counter recce if neccessary and second scout car can finish the game.


6 pdr in second truck would help but also some of their vehicles could be more usefull/cost effective. In general i think that every faction/doc should have all their units available in any of their basic base buildings. Units that are only available in gliders or fhq is just stupid. I dont get why these "only in fhq/glider" stuff started even.

[Erich]

i agree,put 6p in second truck or cheap armored car to counter puma.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I am afraid Puma will never be used actually in a result... Oh well, delay the 17Ps then!! They are available as soon as the first Pz4 usually; While in reality they never was there before a KT But anyways..

[JimQwilleran]

Yea because Axis lack any other units that can fight... Let's for sake of poor puma leave Brits in game-breaking codition!
What about poor Grehound? What about poor Bren carrier? What about other poor poors?

Yea but guys, aint grinding Brits like a meat despite of their funny at rifles fun?

[JimQwilleran]

Oh well, delay the 17Ps then!! They are available as soon as the first Pz4 usually; While in reality they never was there before a KT

I really dont know what u mean... 17p were used in Africa in Tunisia...

[Krieger Blitzer]

KTs were at late 1943, 17Ps were at the same time as well... So; it was actually managed for the 17Ps to be finally counterparts against Tigers.. but the Germans already made KTs at that time!

Zero Tigers were knocked out by 17Ps in Afrika! Simply because 17Ps were all sent to the hot spots during the Normandy campaign where Tigers been knocked out later by the 17Ps. Yet 17Ps never saw action on Afrika Korps!!!

Also, 17Ps were first mounted on some Shermans to become 'Fireflys' was on 1944... Tigers only fought Grants, Churchills, Crommwells, and several 6P AT guns on Afrika.. and definitely not 17Ps!! And btw, Pz4s are since 1941; so still.. how come 17Ps to be available so early like this??!!

[JimQwilleran]

KTs were at late 1943

The Tiger II was issued to heavy tank battalions of the Army (Schwere Heerespanzerabteilung – abbreviated s.H.Pz.Abt) and the Waffen-SS (s.SS.Pz.Abt). It was first used in combat with s.H.Pz.Abt. 503 during the Normandy campaign on 11 July 1944;[11] on the Eastern Front, the first unit to be outfitted with Tiger IIs was the s.H.Pz.Abt. 501 which by 1 September 1944 listed 25 Tiger IIs operational.[12]

Source: Your beloved Wikipedia

I think that your fantasy is just anormous! Do you even try to use any sources or just thinking all this of?

In late 1940, design of a replacement [of 6p] was started, and was largely complete by the end of 1941. A prototype production line was set up that spring, and with the appearance of Tiger I tanks in North Africa, the first 100 prototype 17-pounder anti-tank guns were quickly sent off to help counter this new threat.

[Krieger Blitzer]

We are speaking about 17Ps now, not KTs btw! Panthers saw action earlier too... When were 17Ps first seen on Afrika then? Check Wiki again, KT is produced from 1943 to 1945
It's ok for u to see 17Ps as soon as Pz4s???!! Alright..

[JimQwilleran]

This is astonishing how you call up some sources saying that they are well-known when it fits ur mind, and then have a sudden change of heart and saying that it's not true, when it is used againts you...

[Erich]

i dont think so tiger,US can get 57mm as early as puma also axis can get 50mm before US make any halftrack and halftracks are still used.

brits have no good at gu,just like all allies units that miss all the shots but boys and piats are special,they only hit on fixed targets.

putting 6p in second truck is a good idea,all brits units are expensive and its hard to push back so i see no problem with this change.

[JimQwilleran]

Check Wiki again, KT is produced from 1943 to 1945

Are you kidding me!? Post a quote u retard!

[Krieger Blitzer]

@illa; I mentioned nothing about exactly when did KTs see action! This is also not my subject... As wiki shows u.. KTs were produced from 1943 to 1945 as I pointed!!! Now, we are talking about 17Ps, they never saw Afrika combat neither they were there before Pz4s!

@Erich; I don't mind if 6P becomes earlier as I said above... But 17Ps should be delayed in a result as well.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Check the information menu under the KT picture u idiot girl!

[JimQwilleran]

I know you like cool videos and photos.

Now, we are talking about 17Ps, they never saw Afrika combat neither they were there before Pz4s!

[Krieger Blitzer]

Ya... Date???!!! Maadi camp is in Egypt and I assume that this picture was taken on 1945 maybe. Brits were still occupying Egypt for years even after the end of ww2, there were Shermans on streets too..

Pz4s are since 1941... 17Ps are since 1943.

[JimQwilleran]

Check the information menu under the KT picture u idiot girl!

@illa; I mentioned nothing about exactly when did KTs see action! This is also not my subject... As wiki shows u.. KTs were produced from 1943 to 1945 as I pointed!!! Now, we are talking about 17Ps, they never saw Afrika combat neither they were there before Pz4s!

...

On October 20, 1943, a wooden mock-up of Henschel’s Tiger II was presented to Adolf Hitler at Arys (Orzysz), in East Prussia. Preparations for production at Henschel’s plant in Kassel started in December 1943, with three prototypes produced. Tiger II production began in January of 1944 and ended in March of 1945

Source:http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerkampfwagen-vi-tiger-ii-ausf-b-konigstiger-kingroyaltiger-tiger-ii-sd-kfz-182.htm

Ya... Date???!!! Maadi camp is in Egypt and I assume that this picture was taken on 1945 maybe. Brits were still occupying Egypt for years even after the end of ww2, there were Shermans on streets too..

...

Before the QF 6-pounder had entered service, the British predicted that it would soon be inadequate given the increasing armour of German tanks. In late 1940, design of a replacement was started, and was largely complete by the end of 1941. A prototype production line was set up that spring, and with the appearance of Tiger I tanks in North Africa, the first 100 prototype 17-pounder anti-tank guns were quickly sent off to help counter this new threat. So great was the rush that they were sent before proper carriages had been developed, and the guns had to be mounted in the carriages of 25-pounder gun-howitzers. These early weapons were known as 17/25-pounders and given the codename Pheasant.

Source: Wikipedia

Tiger, have u finished high school?

[JimQwilleran]

Now before you wil think of something utterly stupid again... can we stick to the topic, please?

[Krieger Blitzer]

Srsly now... U must be blind or that u r reading ur own statements while neglecting mine! Now let me quote ur quotes..

-"Tiger II production began in January of 1944 and ended in March of 1945"
And what I said differently to that????!!! READ ABOVE! I said KTs were at LATE 1943. I pointed on that Germans were making KTs and Panthers while Brits were yet thinking of countering the Tiger!

-"A prototype production line was set up that spring, and with the appearance of Tiger I tanks in North Africa, the first 100 prototype 17-pounder anti-tank guns were quickly sent off to help counter this new threat. So great was the rush that they were sent before proper carriages had been developed, and the guns had to be mounted in the carriages of 25-pounder gun-howitzers. These early weapons were known as 17/25-pounders and given the codename Pheasant."

These are prototype 17Ps and they were not reliable cause they used 25P chassis. Check Wiki again... On the information menu under the picture as well, u can obviously see that 17Ps were in service only since '1943-' This means it can't be there before a Tiger or a Pz4... And again.. ZERO TIGERS WERE KNOCKED OUT ON AFRIKA by 17Ps.

[JimQwilleran]

-"Tiger II production began in January of 1944 and ended in March of 1945"
And what I said differently to that????!!! READ ABOVE! I said KTs were at LATE 1943.

No comment... Your logic shows that 1943 = 1944.

Next.

I posted a photo showing a 17p in Africa. U said:

Ya... Date???!!! Maadi camp is in Egypt and I assume that this picture was taken on 1945 maybe. Brits were still occupying Egypt for years even after the end of ww2, there were Shermans on streets too..

I posted an explanation showing that you were wrong

...the guns had to be mounted in the carriages of 25-pounder gun-howitzers. These early weapons were known as 17/25-pounders and given the codename Pheasant.

Now you say I am wrong. If I am wrong that means that... 17p were not used in Afrika. Your argument is:

These are prototype 17Ps and they were not reliable cause they used 25P chassis. Check Wiki again... On the information menu under the picture as well, u can obviously see that 17Ps were in service only since '1943-' This means it can't be there before a Tiger or a Pz4

While I showed you an evidence I still can not understand what is so hard for you to get. Is what you wrote proving that I am not right?

Also if we would follow you logic of a 4yo:

17Ps were in service only since '1943-' This means it can't be there before a Tiger or a Pz4

You could also claim all US tanks except Stuart not to be used in game. Which is a bullshit you must admit.

I just try to explain it you in a way you could really un-der-stand... ok?

[Krieger Blitzer]

Not to get into a further argument with u since u seem to be very impolite as u firstly too said "Retard" to me but well...

This topic is actually made to suggest 6Ps to become earlier and I agreed! However that now I say that 17Ps should be delayed then because they are currently available as soon as Pz4s which is real BS, also.. they were later made to counter Tigers which were seen on 1942 instead of inefficient 6Ps against Tigers... So 17Ps logically now appeared after Tigers, right?! Then they should counter Tigers and not Pz4s!!! Wish if it's not really complicated for u