One little suggestion

[JimQwilleran]

I wouldn't mind swapping the 6pndr and BOYS. Meaning 6pndr would be available in the first truck once you've got your Lieutenant in the field. BOYS would be available from glider. Those Axis early vehicles are pretty fast and the AT gun has pretty slow turn rate so it can be outflanked and even if you protect it with infantry, CW infantry can't really do much about it so I don't think it would give some hellish times in early game to Axis, they will ony need to proceed with some caution.

However I would also suggest the price of 6pndr to go up (to prevent early game spam) and as mentioned lower the price of BOYS since you would need glider to use them first and their effectiveness is very often poor (not to mention that commandos BOYS cost less - never noticed that :/ ).

Agree!

[Warhawks97]

I would really love the devs to say something about this. Or is this thread going to die just like that without anybody of them even considering to actually change something ?

I wouldn't mind swapping the 6pndr and BOYS. Meaning 6pndr would be available in the first truck once you've got your Lieutenant in the field. BOYS would be available from glider. Those Axis early vehicles are pretty fast and the AT gun has pretty slow turn rate so it can be outflanked and even if you protect it with infantry, CW infantry can't really do much about it so I don't think it would give some hellish times in early game to Axis, they will ony need to proceed with some caution.

However I would also suggest the price of 6pndr to go up (to prevent early game spam) and as mentioned lower the price of BOYS since you would need glider to use them first and their effectiveness is very often poor (not to mention that commandos BOYS cost less - never noticed that :/ ).

So much to this topic from my side.

pls what? i dont get it. I thought we talk about having 6pdr simply available when second truck comes (in second or first truck then). So 6pdr would be available at the same tier like all other factions have. Since when do we talk about 6pdr available right at start?

[MarKr]

And I thought that the problem was that getting 6pndr is too expensive and you need glider for it and that BOYS performance is too low. So if the 6 pndr is moved from the glider to the 2nd truck what exactely changes?
BOYS will still be the same useless (even with price drop, their accuracy will remain horrible) and 2nd truck is more expensive than glider so in this case it doesn't solve much either. If you consider how expensive is...well everything CW has it wouldn't be possible to spam those AT guns in early game and if yes, then it would be on expense of slower teching (no MP for trucks) or less infantry in the field (and then the AT guns would die against any Axis infantry squad). That was my way of thinking in this case.

Anyway that's just my opinion and you might prove me wrong and even then the main word has Wolf, so don't need to try to convince me of anything, it's Wolf whom you need to persuade .

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Add 6p to main HQ after infantry truck deployment, and everything will be fine. Commado at boys cost 220, but surprisingly consist of 1 man only, i never seen how somebody used them anyways, when its available all light vehicles are gone usually.

[Warhawks97]

And I thought that the problem was that getting 6pndr is too expensive and you need glider for it and that BOYS performance is too low. So if the 6 pndr is moved from the glider to the 2nd truck what exactely changes?
BOYS will still be the same useless (even with price drop, their accuracy will remain horrible) and 2nd truck is more expensive than glider so in this case it doesn't solve much either. If you consider how expensive is...well everything CW has it wouldn't be possible to spam those AT guns in early game and if yes, then it would be on expense of slower teching (no MP for trucks) or less infantry in the field (and then the AT guns would die against any Axis infantry squad). That was my way of thinking in this case.

Anyway that's just my opinion and you might prove me wrong and even then the main word has Wolf, so don't need to try to convince me of anything, it's Wolf whom you need to persuade .

6pdr doesnt need second turck? i thought it requires the second truck+Glider (havent used the glider really as it often made little sense to me to call it). However, the mp used for glider could be used for second truck. And when second truck is fielded the 6pdr could be build in first truck. Boys AT could drop to 220 mp at least.

[JimQwilleran]

Anyway that's just my opinion and you might prove me wrong and even then the main word has Wolf, so don't need to try to convince me of anything, it's Wolf whom you need to persuade .

Yes, it would be nice to know his opinion. Is there any sorcery available for mere mortals to summon him ?

[MarKr]

Yes, it would be nice to know his opinion. Is there any sorcery available for mere mortals to summon him ?

It would require at least level 90 in summon magic in order to summon such a high tier user as Wolf.

Now seriously - I think he's kinda busy at the moment but he always goes through the active posts so I think he'll express his mind when he's got time

[JimQwilleran]

I am a little, a bit, quite disappointed... I understand that everybody has private lives outside Bk, but two weeks passed already, and Wolf has visited forum and even posted http://forum.bkmod.net/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=445&p=3437#p3437 in a unimportant topic. We reached 56 replies in 3 days, doesn't it seem urgent matter?
I don't ask for a elaborated essay, I just want the answer "Yes, good idea. We will do it in this or maybe slightly differentiating way after some consideration" or "No, this is a bad idea, topic closed"

Now I just feel ignored.

By the way, I know that this thread is far from perfection due to some off-topic posts, but still I hope that the basis of the merit remains clear.

[DaŇjeL_SK]

To original suggestion.... AT boys are the best early AT in game... they are much more effective against scout cars than USA 37mm.

[MarKr]

He replied to my PM few days ago and he said he was very busy ATM. Nevertheless he wrote to me that (appart from other things) he could see no real reason to add new early AT gun to the Brits. When he was playing more actively than these days, Brits didn't have many advantages they gained recently and it was still playable. The mod was designed in a way that not everything was meant to be the same for every faction (especially playing as Allies was, is and always will be harder) yet many suggestions from the community would make the factions look more alike.

So I'm not trying to say that it is a definite "no" (he didn't say that) but he simply isn't inclined to that idea.

Anyway Wolf reads the active forum topics but he doesn't reply because he doesn't have time to argue about his stand point. Let's be honest:

I don't ask for a elaborated essay, I just want the answer "Yes, good idea. We will do it in this or maybe slightly differentiating way after some consideration" or "No, this is a bad idea, topic closed"

If he answered something like "No, this is a bad idea, topic closed" the response from many people wouldn't be just "OK, fine", it would be more like "Why the F*CK not?!?! It's just so f*cking unfair that...*blablabla* and also if you think about *blablabla* and from historical point of view *blablabla* and it happened to me many times that *blablabla*... (you get the picture )"
(*blablabla* = a paragrapf of text)
And these fights are time consuming and also tiring.

[Erich]

He replied to my PM few days ago and he said he was very busy ATM. Nevertheless he wrote to me that (appart from other things) he could see no real reason to add new early AT gun to the Brits. When he was playing more actively than these days, Brits didn't have many advantages they gained recently and it was still playable. The mod was designed in a way that not everything was meant to be the same for every faction (especially playing as Allies was, is and always will be harder) yet many suggestions from the community would make the factions look more alike.

So I'm not trying to say that it is a definite "no" (he didn't say that) but he simply isn't inclined to that idea.

Anyway Wolf reads the active forum topics but he doesn't reply because he doesn't have time to argue about his stand point. Let's be honest:

I don't ask for a elaborated essay, I just want the answer "Yes, good idea. We will do it in this or maybe slightly differentiating way after some consideration" or "No, this is a bad idea, topic closed"

If he answered something like "No, this is a bad idea, topic closed" the response from many people wouldn't be just "OK, fine", it would be more like "Why the F*CK not?!?! It's just so f*cking unfair that...*blablabla* and also if you think about *blablabla* and from historical point of view *blablabla* and it happened to me many times that *blablabla*... (you get the picture )"
(*blablabla* = a paragrapf of text)
And these fights are time consuming and also tiring.

...the problem is that doesnt have at least sense you need pay 250mp for a glider ONLY for build 6p.

[Warhawks97]

...the problem is that doesnt have at least sense you need pay 250mp for a glider ONLY for build 6p.

Same for inf doc 75 mm pack Howitzer.... why do i need an fhq first to get that unit? I mean its available for the doc already but why only in fhqs?


this "only in glider and fhq" thing is stupid. Get the 6 pdr avaialble in first or second truck when second is on the field. The pack howitzer in motorpool when motorpool is up. Whats so hard on it to make it? what speaks against it?

give me a good reason and not something like "we want to reduce arty" regarding to "pack howitzer only in fhq" or "brits have sufficient AT". Simply give an answer which would make sense and which would sound reasonable why this two units need "extra building"

[Wake]

I actually just noticed that the Boys cost 270 MP, which is more than the 6 Pounder AT Gun, PaK 38, 57mm AT Gun, and just slightly less than the 76mm AT Gun.

Would we all agree that those 3 AT guns are better than the Boys? They cost 250 MP and are all capable of destroying medium tanks, while the Boys struggle to scare away Pumas.

I suggest that the conclusions of this thread would be to just reduce the Boys AT cost (commando Boys cost 220 MP) and add the 6 Pounder AT gun to the 2nd British Truck (Field Support) so it comes out at the same time PIATs do, as well as all the other medium AT guns.

[Warhawks97]

I actually just noticed that the Boys cost 270 MP, which is more than the 6 Pounder AT Gun, PaK 38, 57mm AT Gun, and just slightly less than the 76mm AT Gun.

Would we all agree that those 3 AT guns are better than the Boys? They cost 250 MP and are all capable of destroying medium tanks, while the Boys struggle to scare away Pumas.

I suggest that the conclusions of this thread would be to just reduce the Boys AT cost (commando Boys cost 220 MP) and add the 6 Pounder AT gun to the 2nd British Truck (Field Support) so it comes out at the same time PIATs do, as well as all the other medium AT guns.

fully agreed.

[Krieger Blitzer]

So u can then get PIATs, 6Ps and 17Ps all just by the second truck?! BS... I still agree with the cost reduction of Boys AT rifles anyway..

[Wolf]

Boys are infantry, which gives them opportunities, that are not present on AT gun and they should not be considered as such. These include things like - capturing points, faster movement, being able to garrison, retreat and especially being able to fire in 360°. They have disadvantages too of course.
Commando boys are 220 MP, but they are not 3 man squad.
Don't forget, that glider from LT. was supposed to work like FHQ of other factions - thats why it was only being called from garrison before, now it can be called without it.
Brits just work and should work different from other factions, so basically only thing I can agree with in this topic is price reduction, -20-30MP could be okay.

[Warhawks97]

So u can then get PIATs, 6Ps and 17Ps all just by the second truck?! BS... I still agree with the cost reduction of Boys AT rifles anyway..

17 pdr requires captain.

The leutnant works as "first buidling" of other factions. The second truck is equal to logistic company, Motorpool or War Barracks and they all produce medium AT´s so why not the second truck as well? WE gets 37 mm, 50 mm, 28 mm vehicle and 37 mm HT, AT squad. So why not 6pdr in second truck then? The captian is equal to... equal to logistic company upgrade, WE hq second upgrade or US motorpool upgrade (supply yard) and there other factions to also unlock their heavy paks such as brits their 17 pdr.


The boys AT have some pros but they can be more compared to 37 mm AT guns when it comes to damage etc. But they cost more then 50 mm paks. A cost drop down to 240 or 250 would be fair.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I think this topic is now closed.. as that finally Wolf said his word...

[MarKr]

Wolf just said:

Brits just work and should work different from other factions

to which you say:

The leutnant works as "first buidling" of other factions. The second truck is equal to logistic company, Motorpool or War Barracks and they all produce medium AT´s so why not the second truck as well? WE gets 37 mm, 50 mm, 28 mm vehicle and 37 mm HT, AT squad. So why not 6pdr in second truck then? .....

Wolf says that he is against the proposed changes because Brits are simply meant to work differently than other factions and your reply immediately suggests to make a change which will make Brits work similarly to other factions.

Also this:

Boys are infantry, which gives them opportunities, that are not present on AT gun and they should not be considered as such.

And in comment:

The boys AT have some pros but they can be more compared to 37 mm AT guns when it comes to damage etc.

See my point? I mean no offense but it simply seems you kinda ignore what Wolf said.

[Warhawks97]

Wolf just said:

Brits just work and should work different from other factions

to which you say:

The leutnant works as "first buidling" of other factions. The second truck is equal to logistic company, Motorpool or War Barracks and they all produce medium AT´s so why not the second truck as well? WE gets 37 mm, 50 mm, 28 mm vehicle and 37 mm HT, AT squad. So why not 6pdr in second truck then? .....

Wolf says that he is against the proposed changes because Brits are simply meant to work differently than other factions and your reply immediately suggests to make a change which will make Brits work similarly to other factions.

Also this:

Boys are infantry, which gives them opportunities, that are not present on AT gun and they should not be considered as such.

And in comment:

The boys AT have some pros but they can be more compared to 37 mm AT guns when it comes to damage etc.

See my point? I mean no offense but it simply seems you kinda ignore what Wolf said.

i havent read wolfs post at that moment. I replied to tiger mainly as he belived that it would be OP when brits get counterpart units at the same time as all other factions would get it. And what would be equal between factions? brits are working very different as all other factions. Thing is they have a 6pdr anyway just i dont get why 6pdr and 75 mm US pack howitzer are the only units that cant be build in normal base buildings? Once we had that prob with US armor repair engieers and they also required and FHQ to be producable. They got added to barracks as well. In very old times (4.02) it was ok as all US docs reduced the fhq cot from 260 to 195 with first tectree unlock in the upper left side and later down to 146 mp when like half of the stuff was unlocked. But thats not the case anymore (inf doc can drop to 195 when unlocking tectree upper left side but i dont spend this 1 cp in faster prod just to get an fhq for 195. I go straight of arty in most cases or the cqc as they are more important at that stage and so 105 comes actually always before 75 mm arty. Just sayin´.

[Butterkeks]

Well come together peasants and listen to the wise words of our BK Lord Tiger1996, screwing up facts and having no knowledge of WWII at all
Was actually quite funny to read, interesting how he still refused to accept facts after there were multiple quotes, yet he never delivered anything^^
But I totally agree, late 1943 is totally January 1944, I mean we all know that Germans actually won the war in early 1943 (because this is basically the same as MAy 1945) and because Tigers couldn't be penetrated and stuff like that

And as we all know, 17 pdrs came first in 1955, because the Russians tried to land on Mars and the Brits needed sth to shot down these Russians rockets, yet they failed, because these weren't real 17 pdrs, they were actually on a Pak 40 carriage (because Germany won the war). But luckily there were still the unpenetratable Tigers, so the Brits (or actually Germans) could just shoot them to Mars and oneshot all these russian cosmonauts.
Of course Pz IV was not involved to this mission, he retired as he was introduced to the Wehrmacht in 1926 and just got a bit too old for stuff like that.

This is true. I have as many sources and facts for it as Tiger for all of his WWII fantasies^^



Totally agree with cost reduction, though a bit more accuracy would be nice

[Krieger Blitzer]

Hohohoho... Where were u all that time my friend? Long time not seen at all..

However that it looks like u still don't feel so good personally towards me, yet since that old game we did together on Road to Cherbourg!

But whatever though ^^

The topic here is getting too old btw and this decision regarding the cost reduction is already taken anyways.

[JimQwilleran]

Don't forget that any photos that show 17p on pak43 carriage are probably fake. We all know that German occupation forces in late 1950' were still terrorizing peaceful Muslim moon where many carriages were left during the war. Damn, if only Brits had managed to shoot down those rockets... there wouldn't be any communism on that damn red Mars...

[Butterkeks]

Hohohoho... Where were u all that time my friend? Long time not seen at all..

Well it actually makes no sense posting in that forum at all, as here are way too many axis fanboys and even with the greatest discussions nothing ever changes. So what's the point in writing anything here?
I just browse it sometimes when I'm bored, and then stumbled upon this thread.
And this was just too much to take to leave it uncommented.

However that it looks like u still don't feel so good personally towards me, yet since that old game we did together on Road to Cherbourg!

Has nothing to do with that game, I couldn't stand you before too.

The topic here is getting too old btw and this decision regarding the cost reduction is already taken anyways.

Agreed as I posted it several times myself and also started an own topic some months ago about that. Still it won't change.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Hmm... Who are these whom u call as Axis 'fanboys'?! Honestly I can obviously see here what is on the complete contrary. Most recently are of Allies fanboys not Axis ones!

Oh; but weren't u one of these who somehow participated primarily with me (mainly) and also Hawks in publishing the list of 486 before??!! U actually did nothing real to be later considered or appreciated anyhow but at least u were agreeing by involving ur own voice in it since start.. nevertheless, most of those changes got implemented.. or am I wrong I wonder?!

So how come u rarely visit this forums and then claim nothing is going to be implemented!

How come u say 'agreed' to my sentence which is confirming that it's gonna be changed according to the recent Wolf's decisions about it.. and then 'at the same time' u claim nothing would be changed o.O

Isn't this simply a stupid contradiction?!
U r exactly like ur friend Jim.