SE boobytraps and SS pioniers

[Consti255]

Hi fellas,
as in this topic sguessted: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4579&p=41302#p41302
I`d say, make boobytraps for SE a Infantry support center upgrade and remove it from the CP tree.
When it comes to the SS pioniers ( CP upgraded assault pios) i already made numerous posts about them why they should be changed and why SE stuggles. Sorry Devs that i am anoying but its a small change that adresses many things for SE in my opinion. Their loadout is also kinda meh and compared with allied combat Engis/royal sappers far less impactfull when it comes to cost/value.

Changes:
- Boobytraps gets locked behind a ISC upgrade costing 200MP and 40ammo. (available after the logistics upgrade)
- Boobytraps no longer gets unlocked in the CP tree and gets replaced by SS School
- SS School CP upgrade costing 2 CP turning assault pios into SS pios giving them free 1 free Vet , more HP and access to STG44s.
- assault Pios spawn now with 4x MP40 and 2x Kar98s
- assault Pios gain another ability page when picking SE with Flame Bundles (normal bundle stays at page 1) and boobytraps.
- assault Pios now can upgrade on page one: 1 time STG44s giving 2 weapons ( 50ammo) after CP upgrade , 1 time MP40s giving 2 weapons (25ammo)
, flame bundles (35 ammo) . On page two: Flamethrowers (35 ammo)


This changes would give SE more freedom to spend CP while also giving you access to your tools which this doc should have as a defensive oriented doctrine. It would also address your awkward expensive assault pios, which are needed for most defensive structures.

[Frost]

that's a damn cool suggestion not gonna lie i absolutely support it aside from the mp40 squad instead of mp44.
the mp44 is the iconic image of the assault pios in this game we always feared their mp44 in early game as they can wipe out section very fast if not careful instead it would be amazing if they get scoped mp44 as well to make them really standout from assault grenadiers and this can be restricted to 2 CP unlock or something or perhaps veterancy i think it would be cool to have another infantry with scoped mp44 to see how it really does in battlefield we tend not to see SS cause in most cases you cannot afford to get them and when you do mg42 is simply much better upgrade.

[Warhawks97]

Changes:
- Boobytraps gets locked behind a ISC upgrade costing 200MP and 40ammo. (available after the logistics upgrade)
- Boobytraps no longer gets unlocked in the CP tree and gets replaced by SS School

Booby traps is doctrinal stuff. In general i dont like when pretty doctrinal stuff becomes a purchasable thing (tec) rather than an doctrinal unlock. And i also dont like when basic stuff requires a doctrinal unlock. Booby traps should always require CP´s. Its highly doctrinal and either requires a doctrinal unlocked unit or a general unlock so that basic units can use it. So since a lot of units in SE can use booby traps it should remain a doctrinal unlock.

Instead make the Panzer IV F2 to be a CP free unit. For the exact same reason i dont like M10 and shermans being doctrinal unlocks while doctrinal stuff like M6A3C missiles and cheaper weapons or easy eights are simply purchasable rather than an unlock.

- SS School CP upgrade costing 2 CP turning assault pios into SS pios giving them free 1 free Vet , more HP and access to STG44s.
- assault Pios spawn now with 4x MP40 and 2x Kar98s
- assault Pios gain another ability page when picking SE with Flame Bundles (normal bundle stays at page 1) and boobytraps.
- assault Pios now can upgrade on page one: 1 time STG44s giving 2 weapons ( 50ammo) after CP upgrade , 1 time MP40s giving 2 weapons (25ammo)
, flame bundles (35 ammo) . On page two: Flamethrowers (35 ammo)

Assault Pios should start with 1xSTG and 5x MP 40 while costing 325 MP (currently they start with 2x STG and 4x K98) or simply 6x MP 40 while costing 310 MP. After SS training they get vet 1 and other bonuses and can buy a package of 2x additional STGS.

K98 should be removed in general from this unit.

This changes would give SE more freedom to spend CP while also giving you access to your tools which this doc should have as a defensive oriented doctrine. It would also address your awkward expensive assault pios, which are needed for most defensive structures.

except for booby traps being not a CP unlock i agree with that.

[Redgaarden]

You guys are using Assault pioneers?

[Consti255]

I dont agree here Hawks, compared to other docs, like Inf doc or RAF, boobytraps get unlocked for 2 Cp with additional unlocks.Inf doc gets the CQC, Rangers and boobytraps and RAF can get it just for 1 CP aswell as the strategic point disable on nearly any commando unit. Luft just needs Gebirgs which gives them aswell a call in unit and Luft pios before which can build mines, AA emplacements and so on.
SE just gets Boobytraps for 2 CP and just on 2 units. Panzergrens and Heavy grens. thats absolutely unfair and unbalanced in anyway. This whole doc is build arround strategic point deny but you never ever have the CP to get those boobytraps.

every other doctrinal stuff form US, UK and in some sort PE is locked behind tiering why should it be in SE like that ?

We all know that you (me included actually) would like to see no CP for mediums, but the Devs had a standpoint which is reasonable, too much work too much possible balanced issues.

[Walderschmidt]

You guys are using Assault pioneers?

hahahahahahahah

Wald

[Warhawks97]

I dont agree here Hawks, compared to other docs, like Inf doc or RAF, boobytraps get unlocked for 2 Cp with additional unlocks.Inf doc gets the CQC, Rangers and boobytraps and RAF can get it just for 1 CP aswell as the strategic point disable on nearly any commando unit. Luft just needs Gebirgs which gives them aswell a call in unit and Luft pios before which can build mines, AA emplacements and so on.
SE just gets Boobytraps for 2 CP and just on 2 units. Panzergrens and Heavy grens. thats absolutely unfair and unbalanced in anyway. This whole doc is build arround strategic point deny but you never ever have the CP to get those boobytraps.

every other doctrinal stuff form US, UK and in some sort PE is locked behind tiering why should it be in SE like that ?

We all know that you (me included actually) would like to see no CP for mediums, but the Devs had a standpoint which is reasonable, too much work too much possible balanced issues.

dude, why not simply requesting a CP drop for it? But i am sick of more and more doctrine unlocks being put into buildings for purchase while the actual doc unlocks get filled with bullshit quite literally.


I dont know about krads and schwimms, but one of them can also boobytrap.

Inf doc is different since you have to get a special 450 MP unit to use it which often isnt worth the investment. But a doctrine where all units can boobytrap stuff anytime is worth 2 CP in my opinion.

[Consti255]

I did already requesting it.
Its not "different", a booby is a booby. You have access to it after the unlock as inf also paying 450MP for a instant flank win + the booby trap after you won the engagement is damn strong. Many players dont know that CQC can use boobys right after the CP unlock since its on the 2. page.
As i said, it alson unlocks CQC and your core infantry aswell. Its nowhere near to the 2 CP SE unlock.
Yeah schwimms can do boobys aswell. Useually Schwimms get obsolete in later stages, since Krads do the same detection but cheaper + have binos. Sure you can play with schwimms alone, but still i dont think Boobys alone are CP worth, no matter the cost. Every booby unlock comes with something additional for 2 CP or even just 1 CP. Unless something gets added aswell, you can just put it behind the ISC.

[Warhawks97]

I did already requesting it.
Its not "different", a booby is a booby. You have access to it after the unlock as inf also paying 450MP for a instant flank win + the booby trap after you won the engagement is damn strong. Many players dont know that CQC can use boobys right after the CP unlock since its on the 2. page.
As i said, it alson unlocks CQC and your core infantry aswell. Its nowhere near to the 2 CP SE unlock.
Yeah schwimms can do boobys aswell. Useually Schwimms get obsolete in later stages, since Krads do the same detection but cheaper + have binos. Sure you can play with schwimms alone, but still i dont think Boobys alone are CP worth, no matter the cost. Every booby unlock comes with something additional for 2 CP or even just 1 CP. Unless something gets added aswell, you can just put it behind the ISC.

RAF pays 1 CP just for booby-traps after spending 3 CP into the glider. So its not like SE is alone here.

The CQC is a bit special in this regard and its the only unit capable of doing it. So you would have to pay 450 MP at least before you can plant one and not just take any unit and place one. If you actively use booby traps with all your inf and schwimms and using it in buildings as well as capture points, it can be pretty strong. Just most are too lazy to keep units moving arround to plant a trap. But if you mine everything its pretty damn strong. So to me i dont have too many issues paying the 2 CP for it. I would be fine with 1 CP also but not completely CP free.