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[Krieger Blitzer]

Here are briefly some balance points that should be addressed on future patches:

1 - AB strafe run should be more expensive, or tweaked down.

2 - AB doc should have no limit on Hellcats.

3 - AB Engineers should be unlocked along with 101st and become standalone call-in paradrop, just like Luft pios. Then, the Quad AA emplacement should be only accessible via this unit...

4 - SAS should be available earlier, cost less & have their loadout adjusted to compensate.. many suggestions were previously given in this regard.

5 - RAF doc should either have 95mm Cromwell (without flank speed) or have the Field Gun able to shoot arty barrage.

6 - SE doc random 76/Firefly unlock should be no longer call-in. Player should be able to choose which tank to deploy from their Panzer Factory, with limit of 1 tank at a time.

- Make sure all docs have proper AA capability. Some docs currently don't...

[Mantis]

7- LUFT need arty barrage unlockable from garages( LEIG18).
8- Nerf RAF SAS Rambos.
9- Boost dmg and suppression for Whirbelwind little bit.

[crazzy501]

1 - YES
2 - YES
3 - YES
4 - ???
5 - ???
6 - ??? I think it's pointless
7 - ??? Luft already have 88 and leig barages.....
8 - No?.. They limited and it's just an infantry...
9 - YES

[Krieger Blitzer]

Regarding SAS;
They cost too much, available too late, have weird load-out (close range Thompson + long range Bren LMGs!!!) and they are suddenly OP in late game after the offensive/defensive unlocks.

So, what i am aiming to do here.. is not to nerf or buff SAS, but to actually tweak them to become more affordable, and at the same time not too weak or too strong.

[Mantis]

SAS need reduce they health. In normal combat they are hard to kill(men vs men).

[Walderschmidt]

SAS need reduce they health. In normal combat they are hard to kill(men vs men).

I just don't like how they can insta camo with smoke grenades while in combat.

Wald

[Krieger Blitzer]

SAS need reduce they health. In normal combat they are hard to kill(men vs men).

Before the offensive/defensive unlocks, they are not that hard to kill.. however; after the unlocks, they are then not real humans.

[PanzarFather]

7- LUFT need arty barrage unlockable from garages( LEIG18).
8- Nerf RAF SAS Rambos.
9- Boost dmg and suppression for Whirbelwind little bit.

Thank you for bringing sanity to this forum!

[Hetzer 1992]

US AB:

1. 101sts should be able to plant anti tank, infantry mines plus setting booby traps.

2. AB HQ building should get smaller in size so that you can place it with ease.

3. Sabotaging points should either be removed from all factions, or for the same reason others have it be given to AB.

4. HQ squad in AB should either be removed or be given a more cost+battle-effective role.

5. AB Starfe runs are a bit OP, but if it's going to be nerfed or cost more; that void should be filled elsewhere in the doctrine. Don't forget, AB is still desperate against armor.

US Armor:

1. Sandbag, 50 Cal. and side sandbag for Shermans should cost either manpower or ammo not fuel!

2. Armor should have access to both 75mm and 76mm Jumbos, either through reward units or both being simultaneously available. Same applies to Jacksons.

3. Pershing should be sooner available.

US Inf:

1. Make those rangers finally useful! They should be available much faster, the same way def gets grens. Inf is an early game doctrine and is supposed to seal the early game, but with combat engineers and arty jeeps gone; Inf doctrine is quite weak both early and mid-game.

2. Jacksons variants should be available to Inf. The doc is quite naked against heavy armor.

PE Luft:

1. Why not give Luft an HQ building similar to AB?

2. Smoke drop should be easier to access! Not going through the Commander squad to get it. If possible, make it easily accessible by either putting it on the screen like air strikes' icons or like AB by clicking on your barracks go to HQ directly.

3. Luft Starfe run is not as effective as AB's!

[MarKr]

3. Luft Starfe run is not as effective as AB's!

I don't wanna interrupt the brainstorming here but I would like to ask not to make points like this. The straffes are not "mirror" abilities and so saying that one is more/less powerful than the other isn't surprising.

In this case, people have been complaining that the AB infantry is "weak" and so having a very effective airstrike isn't as much of a problem if your other infantry cannot hadle enenmy infantry effectivelly. Not to mention that the Luft straffe has "normal" MG against infantry and a 20mm "AT" cannon that aims at light targets (similar to Henschels) so even if they move, they can still get hit/destroyed.

Other than that, this sort of "points" simply leads to people coming back with "AB rocket plane is not as effective as Luft's Henschels!" and from there it just starts jumping between comparisons. Try to take into account the entire doctrine, that means available abilities, units, possible unit combinations etc. not just look at what doctrine X has and ask for it to be available in doc Y, too. For example people often bring up that "AB has (something) but Luft doesn't!" but kinda forget that Luft has "aiming" AT planes, 360° auto-rotating long-range AT cannon, Panthers, stronger infantry weapons with upgrades etc.

[Walderschmidt]

It'd be nice if these points came with a "why" attached.

Wald

[Hetzer 1992]

3. Luft Starfe run is not as effective as AB's!

I don't wanna interrupt the brainstorming here but I would like to ask not to make points like this. The straffes are not "mirror" abilities and so saying that one is more/less powerful than the other isn't surprising.

In this case, people have been complaining that the AB infantry is "weak" and so having a very effective airstrike isn't as much of a problem if your other infantry cannot hadle enenmy infantry effectivelly. Not to mention that the Luft straffe has "normal" MG against infantry and a 20mm "AT" cannon that aims at light targets (similar to Henschels) so even if they move, they can still get hit/destroyed.

Other than that, this sort of "points" simply leads to people coming back with "AB rocket plane is not as effective as Luft's Henschels!" and from there it just starts jumping between comparisons. Try to take into account the entire doctrine, that means available abilities, units, possible unit combinations etc. not just look at what doctrine X has and ask for it to be available in doc Y, too. For example people often bring up that "AB has (something) but Luft doesn't!" but kinda forget that Luft has "aiming" AT planes, 360° auto-rotating long-range AT cannon, Panthers, stronger infantry weapons with upgrades etc.

Fair enough Markr.

[Hetzer 1992]

It'd be nice if these points came with a "why" attached.

Wald

Be specific!

[Walderschmidt]

It'd be nice if these points came with a "why" attached.

Wald

Be specific!

Every. Single. One.

Wald

[Mantis]

3. Luft Starfe run is not as effective as AB's!

I don't wanna interrupt the brainstorming here but I would like to ask not to make points like this. The straffes are not "mirror" abilities and so saying that one is more/less powerful than the other isn't surprising.

In this case, people have been complaining that the AB infantry is "weak" and so having a very effective airstrike isn't as much of a problem if your other infantry cannot hadle enenmy infantry effectivelly. Not to mention that the Luft straffe has "normal" MG against infantry and a 20mm "AT" cannon that aims at light targets (similar to Henschels) so even if they move, they can still get hit/destroyed.

Other than that, this sort of "points" simply leads to people coming back with "AB rocket plane is not as effective as Luft's Henschels!" and from there it just starts jumping between comparisons. Try to take into account the entire doctrine, that means available abilities, units, possible unit combinations etc. not just look at what doctrine X has and ask for it to be available in doc Y, too. For example people often bring up that "AB has (something) but Luft doesn't!" but kinda forget that Luft has "aiming" AT planes, 360° auto-rotating long-range AT cannon, Panthers, stronger infantry weapons with upgrades etc.

Unfortunately, the air raids are so strong that they guarantee 100% destruction of light vehicles and infantry within their range, so there can be no question of any balancing. It's exactly the overwhelming thing that decides the matches. certainly the force of the raid should be reduced. this is currently the biggest problem in balancing the game in the current patch.

[MarKr]

I would like to say that in both the previous version (5.2.2) and also the current version (5.2.3) I haven't seen any replay against AB doctrine where Axis players would properly use AA units. You said yourself that you played a game where an AB player had many AA emplacements and most of your planes got shot down - that was the last update where AA units were weaker than now so if you build 1 or 2 AA units and place them correctly to protect your units, the AB straffe will most often get shot down before it can even shoot. It ofcourse depends a lot on the map - on narrow maps a plane can survive easier but if people choose to play those maps (even when we said MANY times that planes have advantage there), it is not a balance issue.

So the bottom line is that any type of airstrike can be countered and the ways to counter them are available to every doctrine.

[Mantis]

I would like to say that in both the previous version (5.2.2) and also the current version (5.2.3) I haven't seen any replay against AB doctrine where Axis players would properly use AA units. You said yourself that you played a game where an AB player had many AA emplacements and most of your planes got shot down - that was the last update where AA units were weaker than now so if you build 1 or 2 AA units and place them correctly to protect your units, the AB straffe will most often get shot down before it can even shoot. It ofcourse depends a lot on the map - on narrow maps a plane can survive easier but if people choose to play those maps (even when we said MANY times that planes have advantage there), it is not a balance issue.

So the bottom line is that any type of airstrike can be countered and the ways to counter them are available to every doctrine.

not every player prefers camping style. the flight is relatively early. The fact that you build AA from the start means that you will lose valuable raw materials on other things. I don't think I'll be the only one who doesn't apply the camping style and I don't understand why I should be disadvantaged thanks to this OP raid. You wanted me to write my opinions here in the forum, so I'm doing it now.

[Krieger Blitzer]

AB strafe is OP and is certainly a balance issue for the following reasons;
- Very low cost & cool-down time for its performance.
- Ammo supply drops add even more to THAT, allowing the player to spam strafe runs the entire game.
- AB FHQ is a nightmare on some maps now as buildings can be upgraded to AB FHQs and used as area/sector denial, thanks to Strafe run patrols.
- Strafe run completely denies PE faction from using mortar half-tracks.

[Warhawks97]

I am against camping style and i think airstrikes to help a lot preventing them.

Since i play BK i used to face RAF pretty much everytime i faced more than one CW player. And several infantry units got whiped out sometimes in a single airstrike. Just like in a game yesterday on a small map that killed three of my units. Mass destruction airstrikes used to be the most normal thing back then and the units at that time cost a lot more.

And i am used to be prepared vs players that use air docs which means using aa units which by accident do also quite well vs the infantry. So building an AA unit does not only make sense vs the airplanes, but also vs their inf. On Top of that, no AA unit costs CP´s, so while you go for AA units and spending CP´s elswhere, the enemie wasted their CP´s for nothing.

In total and in the long run its not really what actually decides the game. Players that spend lots of CP into their airstikes run low on ammo early on, have no boosted/unlocked units and whatsnot while i can plan my next steps without fearing the enemie has unlocked something crazy. Like when he got strafe runs, i have gotten Panzer IV´s and i know that he got barely anything to counter me.


So its not like "unlock planes easy gg" or that it is not connected to a drawback. I know lots of good AB and RAF players that unlock other stuff first such as Commando Training and M10, radio beacons (also super usefull in early game and easy to plant before map gets crowded) or using the mortar off map strike and 101st along with M10´s and shermans. Thats for example my prefered combo. 101st, off map mortar, recon plane and M10. You can do crazy things with them. And if your enemie has then wasted res into AA stuff because he expected it, well, i have a free field in front of me.



I have faced AB and RAF in most matches recently, i lost lots of stuff against it but it didnt helped my enemie that much as my counter push with tanks and stuff could throw their core units back.




So listing up the points why i dont feel its currently too crazy:

1. Yes, strafes kill stuff, but proper AA makes their CP investment a fail investment and AA helps also to kill their inf.
2. If they spend CP early on into airstrikes, means they have not much to counter possible counter attacks with Tank IVs etc as they wont have M10´s and stuff
3. Other combos feel in the long run a lot more powerfull like smart RAF guys going for early inf training and proper AT to have an advantage in late game. Or go for 101st/off map mortar strike/Tank combo instead.
4. Over the years many units became a lot cheaper. I used to play games in the past where an RAF cluster bomb strike easily whiped several squads costing over 400 or even 500 MP. Now all these units cost just 360 MP, max 450.
5. The AB HQ can be build once for 450 MP, yes, but is often on open fields and arty target anyway. In towns people have to spend 400 MP into it+ all the ammo to use them. For that price he could get other denial weapons as well.

[MarKr]

You wanted me to write my opinions here in the forum, so I'm doing it now.

I am glad you posted your opinion and I don't have any problem with your opinion. I'm just saying that there are counters.

Also, emplacements are not the only thing that provides AA protection. You can build that Opel flak in your HQ and keep moving it along with your troops. Yes, it requires more micro to keep relocating the unit and putting it into AA mode all the time but it doesn't change the fact that you HAVE a counter to the ability. Ofcourse you don't have to use the AA units but then should you complain that your infantry/halftracks get killed by the straffe? That's like saying:
A: Enemy tanks killed all my infantry and halftracks - the tanks should be nerfed.
B: Did you have any AT guns or own tanks?
A: No, I didn't want to build them, just nerf the tanks.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Potential lack of other elements in AB doc, does not justify how AB strafe run should stay like that in my opinion.

Luft strafe is deadly, but no one complains about it.. why? Mainly because of 2 reasons;
- There is no FHQ strafe "patrol" in Luft doc.
- There is no ammo supply drops in Luft doc.

Usually i refrain from calling any stuff in the game as "OP" unless they really are.. and here i have to say that AB strafe is extremely OP for the current price, period.

[Mantis]

You wanted me to write my opinions here in the forum, so I'm doing it now.

I am glad you posted your opinion and I don't have any problem with your opinion. I'm just saying that there are counters.

Also, emplacements are not the only thing that provides AA protection. You can build that Opel flak in your HQ and keep moving it along with your troops. Yes, it requires more micro to keep relocating the unit and putting it into AA mode all the time but it doesn't change the fact that you HAVE a counter to the ability. Ofcourse you don't have to use the AA units but then should you complain that your infantry/halftracks get killed by the straffe? That's like saying:
A: Enemy tanks killed all my infantry and halftracks - the tanks should be nerfed.
B: Did you have any AT guns or own tanks?
A: No, I didn't want to build them, just nerf the tanks.

we probably don't understand. I don't mind my opponent's plane destroying my units. I am annoyed that the aircraft is guaranteed that no one will receive in the area of ​​the flight, including light vehicles. and that's what makes a given thing an OP thing.

[Tulkas]

The ammunition supplies in AB is a very big advantage, you will always have the bombers available. I think 200 cash for 200 ammo is an extremely beneficial deal. It's a bit of a stretch I think.

[mofetagalactica]

Maybe just let the AB straffe at what it is in terms of deadlyness and make it less wider so its not that easy to wipe everything in a zone since maybe 1 model would/could survive by being outside this zone.

Also i wonder if someone knows or its not gonna complaing about the luft straffe destroying heavy tanks such as churchill MKVII/shermans/m10, etc. Because that can also be kind of OP.

[Walderschmidt]

I think the airborne strafe is fine.

I think if you get AA and stay off of lane maps (which are cancer anyway), it’s fine.

Wald