Armored cars of literally every doctrine and army

[TANEBIRD]

I understand recently that overdrive had to be taken off some of the armored cars. However, and it's probably just me, but it seems like the armored cars ability to turn and their turning in the turret speed has been vastly reduced. This doesn't seem like it would be that big of a deal, until you have to basically give orders to a hundred other units, and you cant keep turning the armored cars fast enough if at all.

When I started playing Company of Heroes, rightfully and accurately so, the puma and the panzer elite 20mm armored car were things to be terrified of. Like, don't even bother with sticky bombs, if you're in it's target area you need to be hauling ass back to back. If you are literally infantry men, especially in red cover, the blink of an eye should be the difference between 6 men and none.

I'm not sure how this all balances out given the situation, but having armored cars that can't kill an AT squad that isn't firing at them fast enough seems kind of shitty, and almost negates the whole reason of having them. Lately, I find myself using less and less armored cars in end game, but they are a good way to combat heavy infantry that isn't firing at them, because they're fast enough to reverse away from them while they get ready to shoot bazookes, but by the time they stabalize, they're out of range. These cars have acceptable speed, but their aquisition in targetting seems to get them killed a lot now. I just thought I would bring it up, I know I'm not the only one. I like the lethality and the reload time seems to make sense however, I think you did good with that.

[TANEBIRD]

Again I state, that I make these suggestions with the utmost of respect for this mod. I love playing this shit and it has made company of heroes so much better in its entirety. If I ever have not explained a point well enough, please allow me a reciprocation to said question. I may type a little too much, but I feel when making a suggestion to someone that is serious about hearing the complaint, that your ability to describe the problem at best is what will get us all to shake hands in the end. Thanks for reading my suggestion, and have a great day.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

There are no doubts that changing turret rotation speed and acceleration was ridiculously dumb decision.

[MarKr]

Isn't it the case that AT infantry and AT guns should be a counter to vehicles and tanks? If so, then it should be OK that these units can kill armored cars. In turn, small-arms infantry should be good enough counter to AT teams. So if you have an armored car combined with Volks/Riflemen/Grens (whatever other infantry), then the infantry should take care of rushing AT teams while the armored car itself can stay behind them and provide additional firepower and protection from other armored cars.

The armored cars can penetrate enemy light armor and usually do a short work with it, if they are also very good against all kinds of infantry, what will be their counter? It was the situation in the past - quick turret rotation meant that infantry was sort of fucked against it (as you wrote above), AT guns were pretty much screwed too, because if the first shot missed or did not immobilize the car, it could drive past it and keep circling around so that the gun could never take a shot at it again. The only counter was basically to rush to medium tanks.

I am not saying that everything must stay the way it is, just saying that making the units very effective against their intended counters leaves the unit without counters, which isn't good either.

[TANEBIRD]

I don't really feel the need to say that the change was ridiculously dumb or anything, I can see how things over the long run get tweaked againsts other things, that maybe are forgotten later on, or modded and changed even further in another patch. After a while it can be extremely hard to keep all of this shit as balanced and sensible as they have. I'm definately not going to call the dev team stupid because the last time I was involved in the modding of a video game was in 1998 for blue and gray on myth II and the AMMOUNT of shit you have to change sometimes is ridiculous to keep up with. I understand where both sides are coming from here.

Not to nitpick, but as an AT gun, if you dont get that first shot on a vehicle you're kind of fucked anyway at close range usually. They're anti tank guns, yes they CAN blow up vehicles and do it well but it was not their purpose, which was to blow up tanks. I feel like now with the new AT setup and desetup though I can see where you're coming from now

MODERATOR NOTE: Combined double post

[MarKr]

I should have specified it more - I meant more like the early game situations with 37mm AT guns, that are called "anti-tank" but you don't expect them to take down any thing bigger than (maybe) light tanks, they are primarily used to counter light vehicles in general (halftracks and armored cars). So the "light" AT guns are meant to be primary counters to light vehicles (and the light AT guns don't have the setup/pack up times changed) but still - if they miss the first shot or don't immobilize the armored car with the first shot, the car can then drive past it and just keep circling around the AT gun and if it has fast turret rotation, it can keep the turret on target non-stop, the AT weapon never has time to take a shot at the car. This tactics was a LOT before the turret speeds got lowered and it drove people (on the receiving end) crazy as there was no reliable counter to this apart from covering an AT gun with another AT gun which has its own downsides.

[kwok]

Hey Tanebird, I know youre new to the forum so don't sweat this too much. If possible, can you keep your posts consolidated as much as possible?

This may be an outdated rule from a time when people would spam post long paragraphs and a chain of posts. It's tiring on the eyes, slow to scroll, a bit overwhelming if a person sees a series of posts from just one person. It's not a super hard fast rule that is always enforced, but it's something all players try to keep up ourselves to keep the forum more organized. Just small things like that helps devs organize as well which means are more likely to respond/make changes.

If you think of something new to add to a previous post, you can go back and edit your most recent post so that a reader can just read your all thoughts and see the following responses.

[TANEBIRD]

I just had a kind of crap situation on St. Mere Eglise. Sometimes, when the cover is heavy like in the middle, the turret turn speed isn't you're only enemy, having to maneuver around these heavy cover deals is also making the armored cars extremely vulnerable to long periods of non fire speed.

[Walderschmidt]

I just had a kind of crap situation on St. Mere Eglise. Sometimes, when the cover is heavy like in the middle, the turret turn speed isn't you're only enemy, having to maneuver around these heavy cover deals is also making the armored cars extremely vulnerable to long periods of non fire speed.

I understand your frustration. Sometimes it feels like you’re fighting the game engine itself, rather than just your opponent and RNJesus.

I just want to remind you that movement mechanics were tuned to adjust a fix for an AT gun exploit that upset the balance of the game between vehicles and everything else. I don’t think the changes will be reverted, but I do think things could be tuned. And the devs are trying to fix/tune vehicle pathing as we speak.

I also want you to consider that vehicles, wheeled vehicles in particular, both real life don’t work well in rough terrain and that is finally reflected in game. The best way to use them is hit and run and using them on roads and flat terrain. You can still micro them to wreak havoc, but it is no longer brainlessly easy and difficult to counter. And again, the devs may tune things in the future.

Wald