Whats the point of AB?

[Warhawks97]

As the topic said, three games, three times one in my team went AB, three times AB got fucked. As soon as the tanks arrive, you can actually leave the game.



1. Their "Elite inf" always dies to def doc pios and their mp40... really every fucking time, even when i had command squad nearby.
In the last game the inf dropped like flies in every single engagment, no matter what you had to fight against, you died. Meanwhile luft inf charges quad cal 50 emplacment of my base, throws a nade and captures it. I am not kidding.
2. When panther comes you get fucked
3. The strafe doesnt kill shit. I placed it multiple times perfectly over groups of inf... the stormtroopers for example lost just one men out of 12 in total... staying in the middle of the strafe and being suppressed (not pinned)... and even unsuppressed it kills shit.
4. If you dont go for M10 or something and only for AB inf, you are totally lost vs early tank IV´s... the RL is a joke and a waste of a weapon slot. you can remove it just as well as drop in a crate. The only reason to pick it up is to give it not to the enemies.
5. Whats the point of this inf when it cant hide.... this inf is an MP drainer in the long run and leaves you with little support and this 82nd cant even lay a god damn ambush so that you may stand a chance against some armor at least.
6. Weapons are fuckng cost in-effective.


Every weapon you have is cost in-effective. M1 Carabine is usless since all axis inf has MP40 now, even pios shred them. The airstrikes are all just a big joke and a waste of CP whikle Henschels taking out multiple tanks in a go (see all the games from Tiger in yt how enschels decimate entire tank divisions like in his recent upload if anyone watched it) and this doc sits there with a strafe that kills nothing.





This doc is only good against elephant tank.

[F31.58]

well, as Figree said, there is only one good option is by playing by dropping the ammo crates and making your typical US build order with full of additional ammunitions and weapons, spamming by mines and etc.
But yeah, this update completly made this doc tech up going into only 1 way of developing. M18 still suck, 101 has no more advantage of assaulting and took position of riflemen as frontline infantry and 82nd still a big MP drain.
Completly agree with you, except the MP40 part.
Sub-machine guns sucks except CQB combat and having them efficient is something that keeps them alive.
The only thing what helped me against heavy tanks in 1v1 on new map with andrusha, is that I used sticky bombs (that was pretty much useless against lower tier vehicles) and executing them with double M10 HEAT and HVAP rounds.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I agree with everything, it is a terrible work devs did with AB. The doc was perfect before the beta, could be very powerful in late game but required tremendous amount of skill and micromanagement, thats why it always remained the least popular USA doc. Really, just revert EVERY single change you implemented to AB back to pre-beta version. Why would you break something that worked good?

That includes:
- More HP to 101s + flame nades
- 2 Johnsons + Bar or 3 Bars load out to 101s
- Airstrikes like they used to be. If you think that Patrol was too Powerful you can nerf it a bit, fo instance - 2-3 bombing runs + 2-3 strafe runs instead of unlimited for a period of time like it was.
- Old AB HQ squad, this was such a cool unqiue unit that could fight on the front line and you turned it to another BORING officer squad
- Recoiless that can kill something, last time I played It wasnt able to kill a PZ4 with 9 shots, even though 2 of them did penetrate.

The biggest nerf to AB is actually the fact that every vehicle now one shots squads with HE. Having implemented that, Inf oriented docs should have received BUFFS, but not nerfs, it was very shortsighted.

[Constantino]

I agree with everything as well. I was actually thinking of making a post explicitly about the 101, they completely suck ass. They should be elite infantry from a gameplay and realism perspective, but they are just riflemen currently that have to pay to even get M1 Garands. You have to sacrifice so many late game units when you pick AB, and you do not get much in return. AB is without a doubt the worst US doc, and I would argue it is one of the worst in the game. As AB in a 1v1 you are basically helpless in the late game against any tank heavier than a Panzer IV if you don't land your airstrikes.


101 Suggestions:

1. Give them copy and pasted 82 stats (health, armor, etc.).

2. Give them M1 Garands by default; M1 carbine should be reserved for Airborne Engineers and weapons teams, not frontline combat infantry.

3. Give back their Phosphorus grenades.

4. Give 2 recoilless rifles by default; they aren't that good to begin with so I do not see why players should have to pay for them.

5. Buff recoilless rifle range well beyond that of Bazooka/Panzerschreck range (longer effective range in reality) and give them pay for use abilities that guarantee crits like broken trends, etc to help 82/bazooka teams to flank and kill heavier vehicles.

6. 101 Weapon upgrades: without M1 Garands or recoilless rifle upgrade, I would give them the following:
I. (2) elite BAR or 0.30 cal x1 (Johnson LMG was not used in Europe).
II. (1) Rifle grenades.
II. (1) Scoped Springfield which would be a pay for use sniper ability like the infantry section.

7. Cap them at 2 squads and make them the same price as 82.

Reasoning: now they would be a long range elite infantry unit that can complement the 82 being a closer range unit and together they would better able to kill heavy tanks with the 101 disabling them and the 82 finishing them off.


General Suggestions:

1. I think that the old Patrol Run should return, the reasoning being that all plane doc should have some ability that automatically targets tanks within range for balance purposes, otherwise, there is simply isn't a reliable counter to heavy tanks against a decent player. If the docs are supposed to be balanced for 1v1 then you can't do much with an M18.

2. Add bazooka upgrade to all US docs; it is necessary for balance against late game German tanks.

3. Readd the Calliope Jeep back to AB; it's redundant in armor with the Calliope Sherman and Armor does not need so much arty.

4. I know there was a poll about it, but all US docs should get M10 CP free, with existing M10 CP unlocks being replaced with a M18 CP unlock without a unit cap for all US docs.

5. I know it's not going to happen, but buff the 76 mm lol

[Warhawks97]

I agree with everything as well. I was actually thinking of making a post explicitly about the 101, they completely suck ass. They should be elite infantry from a gameplay and realism perspective, but they are just riflemen currently that have to pay to even get M1 Garands. You have to sacrifice so many late game units when you pick AB, and you do not get much in return. AB is without a doubt the worst US doc, and I would argue it is one of the worst in the game. As AB in a 1v1 you are basically helpless in the late game against any tank heavier than a Panzer IV if you don't land your airstrikes.

Generally i dont have a problem with having the carabine as default weapon. They dropped carabines, so. But if the Leader could perhaps have a Thompson at default, that would already help somewhat in the first encounters at close range perhaps.

101 Suggestions:

1. Give them copy and pasted 82 stats (health, armor, etc.).

too my knowledge, they lost 10 HP recently. They are now at 70 HP like the Luftwaffe Reg 5.
They also have all the same armor.
But Luftwaffe inf dropped massively in cost. The 101st should cost 365 MP instead of 385 due to their worse basic loadout.


On Top of that, there should be some sort of ambushing technique for AB units, srsly. RAF commandos do so, Luft does so, even PE basic Sturmführer and SS squad does so, Rangers can do so and Storms can do so.

AB is the only doctrine that is heavily dependent on infantry but the only one whos elite inf cant camo. I consider this an essential element for any Airborne type doctrine.

2. Give them M1 Garands by default; M1 carbine should be reserved for Airborne Engineers and weapons teams, not frontline combat infantry.

as sait, cost drop as well as ambush techniques could help a lot to balance the inferior default weapons.

3. Give back their Phosphorus grenades.

yes.

4. Give 2 recoilless rifles by default; they aren't that good to begin with so I do not see why players should have to pay for them.

i think they reduced the damage not long ago. Right now it barely takes less than half of the HP of an HT.
I am fine with how it is if the damage could go up again.

5. Buff recoilless rifle range well beyond that of Bazooka/Panzerschreck range (longer effective range in reality) and give them pay for use abilities that guarantee crits like broken trends, etc to help 82/bazooka teams to flank and kill heavier vehicles.

that could be an option, but to what range. It should not outrange HE rounds of tanks.

6. 101 Weapon upgrades: without M1 Garands or recoilless rifle upgrade, I would give them the following:
I. (2) elite BAR or 0.30 cal x1 (Johnson LMG was not used in Europe).
II. (1) Rifle grenades.
II. (1) Scoped Springfield which would be a pay for use sniper ability like the infantry section.

Johnson was used by devils brigade but small numbers. I dont have an issue with having it here.


The BAR does not need to be elite. Its just its damage values that sucks ass. Old M1919 had the same issues many years ago. Its damage got buffed to that of lmgs like the mg34 and since then it works. If the BAR would get rid of its poor damage stats, it could be an weapon to work with.

Rifle Grenades sounds pretty, but do we have UI slots left for that?

7. Cap them at 2 squads and make them the same price as 82.

I dont like this idea since i think the 82nd is also heavily overpriced with its 485 MP. I like this cheap and expensive element thing. But the issue is that the cheaper once cant hold the line in combat against the very basic axis inf and the 82nd is heavily overpriced elite which is far away from being elite.

The 101st does have to meet its basic requirments as a basic Airborne unit like the reg 5 can. Beat the first basic enemie infantry that arrives at the scene and hold out untill reinforcments can arrive (from air or ground) and being available in sufficient numbers.

We dont have to turn AB into what old Luftwaffe doc was: Few but rambo style infantry.

Reasoning: now they would be a long range elite infantry unit that can complement the 82 being a closer range unit and together they would better able to kill heavy tanks with the 101 disabling them and the 82 finishing them off.

and thats the point: Yet another expensive elite unit which in the long run makes it hard to actually get additional forces down the ground.
It doesnt need to be expensive to hold out for elites. It just need to be cost effective.

General Suggestions:

1. I think that the old Patrol Run should return, the reasoning being that all plane doc should have some ability that automatically targets tanks within range for balance purposes, otherwise, there is simply isn't a reliable counter to heavy tanks against a decent player. If the docs are supposed to be balanced for 1v1 then you can't do much with an M18.

I would try to add some sort of unlock (CP or WSC) that drops cooldown/cost of airplanes. Unlock would be called "Air dominance" or something. This doc does not have heavy tanks, guns or other defenses. All it has is minimum armor support, actually the very basic. So it should rely on inf that has air support at hand.

When i think about vcoh, AB doc could call in airstrikes very often and thus the inf had the support needed.

3. Readd the Calliope Jeep back to AB; it's redundant in armor with the Calliope Sherman and Armor does not need so much arty.

I tested it and tried to use this unit but it just sucks. While units like Maultier lay waste over large areas with 10 missiles and each with nice AoE, the jeep fires 6 tiny missiles. I remember my snowballs that i threw at my childhood were more effective.

To meet its requirments it at least should have the possibilty of shooting 12 missiles.
AB doc does fine with its arty actually. Off map mortar, pack howitzer with good accuracy and low cost is as more usefull for me atm.

4. I know there was a poll about it, but all US docs should get M10 CP free, with existing M10 CP unlocks being replaced with a M18 CP unlock without a unit cap for all US docs.

thats something i just felt again.

I had my AB´s, my 57 mm HT, just unlocked the 82nd AB and suddenly a Tank IV showed up. I had literally nothing to fight it and the M10 was fucking 2 CP away. I never feel so "naked" lacking very basic stuff as i do when playing US.

5. I know it's not going to happen, but buff the 76 mm lol

too bad, i know.






So what i would wish for AB the most:




1. Flame nades for all AB. Else it could be an default ability for the 82nd without unlock required. I dont mind either way. But being able to unlock something for a unit which itself is not unlocked yet is just weird.

I cant remember that any other doctrine has such a stupid system. Usually, a ability linked to a unit is also linked in the unlock tree and not independent. which brings me to the next point:

2. Rework of the unlock line:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3574

To be more like that. Bit more flexibility when it comes to inf but possibly also air so that bomb does not follow of the strafe but instead going a different path so that you can choose what you need first.


3. Ambush techniques at default for all AB. Passive camo would already help a lot.

That in particular is super important for HQ squads. the Luftwaffe/BK and PE leader squads are so fucking usefull because they can stay hidden as long as neccessary and thus providing combat boosts without being always targeted first. It really pissed me off the last games bc the first units to retreat was my HQ squad all the time.


4. RL rifle back to its old damage values

5. 82nd cost drop to 430 MP, 101st to 365

6. Unlock that cuts the cooldown of Airstrike cooldown.

And it would be nice when all airstrikes would cost less ammo but in return some fuel. Only Luftwaffe enjoys this currently which makes it a superb airstrike doctrine since you need just a little bit of each res instead of a lot of one res.

7. Remove Hellcat limit. Its the only anti tank unit that actually fits this doctrine due to its agility to provide support quickly where its needed without being either too slow or handicapped by an ass slow turret rotation.


8. Someone brought this idea up, idk who but i bring it up again:
Add perhaps a 5-6 men default 101st squad to the barracks and later AB HQ which can be build instead of dropped.
It has a unit cap of 1 or 2.
It uses M1 Garand rifles with Ranger stats and can be upgraded with MG1919 lmg or a double Pack BARs and Rifle Grenade. It can also hide, use Binoculars and can use grenades and satchels and later sticky bombs. Can also call in the off map mortar strike once unlocked.


This way you can get a decent inf unit for the early game and the ranged combat taking place just by picking the doctrine.


9. AB HQ squad can retreat to the AB HQ

10. The AB HQ should have slightly less space requirments. Too often it cant be build because it requires soo much space.

[Mood]

The old recoil-less and phosphorus grenades were OP though, so no wonder they got changed.

I personally miss the old HQ squad which I liked, too bad some people nagged the devs to change it.

[Warhawks97]

The old recoil-less and phosphorus grenades were OP though, so no wonder they got changed.

OP? In which way? The RL was the weakest handheld AT already.

And the nade required at least to get close at least. SE doc also has fire nades for all their inf after unlock which can be played as an elite inf doc as well.

I personally miss the old HQ squad which I liked, too bad some people nagged the devs to change it.

So while RL was sooo OP, an officer squad with a sniper inside is not?

I actually like the focus of the new squad. Its just that camo would help a lot to keep this unit easier out of firefights.

And if you really want that sniper back, you could add it to a 4 men squad just as well.






I could think that this single sniper is what makes this doc bad or good when i read this sentence. But not the overall bad default weapon performance, cost issues (esspecially when comparing 82nd to reg 5 and commandos), nerfed air support (which was extremely vital for this doc), RL nerf, lack of any kind of ambush capabilties for their entire infantry and so on.


But of course, lets add just the sniper back and everything will be fine again. No need to worry about panthers when you have a sniper inside the HQ squad.

[Mood]

Of course it was the weakest (sans light AT gun), but you're missing the point.
For example with bazookas and shrecks you would usually field max two squads with those (the AT squads), and perhaps one or so with rangers or stormtroopers. In comparison in AB you could field tons of versatile paratroopers that were spamming those.
I remember panzer IV's being blown up left and right, didn't even need bazookas since they never got to heavy tanks And if they by any chance did, just send a plane strike!
Basically you would field tons of them, together they were a very strong force against armour. I definitely feel like a nerf was needed for recoil-less. But I'm not saying that AB infantry in general doesn't need a buff, but buffing AT isn't it imho.

In regards of the SE grenade I barely remember anyone even mentioning it on the forums, while lots of people complained about phosphorus. Perhaps it was simply because people played AB a lot more than SE? *shrug*
And speaking in general, while I like that there is some diversity to grenades, these kind of "insta-shot" grenades don't require any skill since with normal ones the enemy has time to migitate damage by moving their infantry.

Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I recall the complaint about AB HQ squad that some vocal people here had was that it was too costly - not because it was OP or underpowered. I don't know how other people play, but I usually kept them a bit behind in a more supportive role. Perhaps others kept rushing headlong into the enemy and hence felt like reinforcing them constantly was too expensive... So this can probably be construed as a play-style issue rather than a balance one?

No idea why you're being sarcastic and putting words in my mouth btw.

[Warhawks97]

1. The RL stats itself were not good.

But what made it deadly was the fact that you got two per drop and some people dropped like 5 squads or so and could give them to one squad with 6 AT weapons.


So, increasing weapon slots of the weapon would have made it and the RL per drop was reduced to one. And then the damage was nerfed for no reason so that it takes like 50% of an HT like in my last match. Not even a crit was scored.



2. Flame nades in SE does not have many complains bc SE dudes just go for arty. But SE doc is basically a pretty strong infantry doc when using this flame nade. I managed several times to insta whipe SAS squads with Hauptsturmführer when i threw a flame nade with him from an ambush position. It was one of the most nasty things you could do.

Only SS squad does not get the flame nade (idk if on purpose) but those have the assault ability.


3. I for my part dont like snipers within squads, including SS squad. Snipers are super deadly units and its a different to kill just one sniper costing 450 MP or an entire squad which will reinforce the sniper for low cost.

I barely used the HQ squad bc it took a lot of CP and MP, forcing you to get a "infantry only" force.
For combined arms tactics it wasnt that good bc you could either get weak unboosted inf with vehicle support or strong inf but nothing aside of it.

So yeah, its a playstyle issue rather than a balance issue and i prefer functionality. Thats why BK was and is my forever love doctrine. You want a certain unit for a certain task and get that one for reasonable cost. Luftwaffe is the same now btw. Like you need a phone and just a phone to call someone? Why paying thousands of dollars for a phone that has billions of gadgets that you dont need at this moment. It just delays your action bc you have to wait longer for it.


So, i like functional officer squads (and units in general) that do what they are made for.

[Redgaarden]

Could we change M1 Carbine moving accuracy from 0.15 --> 0.75. Think it would be a fitting change since the Garands got changed but not M1 Carbines.
Would make the carbine/airborne feel more special since their moving accuracy isn't the same as bolt action rifles.

And I really dont want sniper hq suqad again.

No opinion on airstrikes be cause I haven't used them or been used against me.

M10 sound nice to have default. or atleast lower cp cost to 1.

Dont see reason to have a maximum count of hellcats. And why can Axis have more tiger than we can get hellcats?

[MarKr]

Just some notes to a few points:

- Remove Garands/Readd BAR
There is no good reason to have the BAR and Johnson in ne squad at the same time. It is the same as giving MG34 and MG42 upgrade options to Grenadiers, except for Johnson/BAR are stats-wise more similar than the MG34/42. These two weapons on the same squad were simply redundant. In the past you could either upgrade 2xBAR and get the Suppression ability or get 2xJohnson, no Suppression but sliiiightly more damage. The squad now keeps the Johnson and also gets the Suppression ability so now you get the higher DPS of Johson and also the suppression ability that previously had BAR.

I think someone said here that "BARs can shoot on the move"- yes, technically they can but the accuracy of BAR is not anything mindblowing even when they shoot stationary and on the move the accuracy is further lowered by 50% so hitting anything on the move is pretty rare. The BAR also empties most or all of its magazine when it moves so when you finally get close to stop the squad and start shooting stationary, the weapon starts reloading (or at least most of the time) - Johnson doesn't do this.

So the BAR is most likely not going to come back to the 101st squads.

- Flame grenade
The main complaint here was that the 101st could sprint to pretty much any enemy squad and throw the grenade at which point the Axis soldiers had three options:
1) stay in the flames, keep shooting and die pretty quickly
2) move away from their position but that usually meant that they were left without cover and at the close range the M1 Carbines, that now shoot as fast as the M1 Garands, were able to quickly kill the soldiers
3) because of the first 2 options, just retreat as soon as you see the 101st sprinting towards you


- Camo and other suggested changes for 101st
Some of the suggestion sound like they would be worth a shot, others not so much but in general some of the "lists" of requested changes would turn 101st into Rambo squads. The problem is that most of the changes sound OK individually but when you combine them, it has potential to get really OP, some of the suggested changes go against the intended philosophy of the unit, others make it more or less reskinned copy of another unit we already have in the game.

One thing we MAY (not promising anything here) try is the passive camo but you should really think about all the implications this brings - units shooting from camo have bonuses to accuracy, damage and suppression. 101st equipped with Garands have relatively good accuracy by default + higher "one-shot" crit chance with every hit. The first volley from camo with these bonuses might be deadly as hell even for enemy elite infantry. Combine that with the number of 101 units you can have, the cheap cost of Garands and early access to these units and you might end up with very defensive playstyle from Axis players, because they will fear that some camoed 101 unit might be hidden behind every other bush - which means deadly surprises for infantry, with RLs + camo bonus there will be deadly surprises for light vehicles as well.

Some of the changes might happen but it is very unlikely we will take an entire "list" of suggestions from one of you and implement it all.

- Recoilless Rifles
The history of RL changes is quite extensive. Back in times when 101st got two RLs for free, they used to have the damage they have now. Then there was a change to 101st and they got only one RL for free because of complaints about squads equipped with RLs and bazookas. Then people complained that the 101st was too easily harassed by light vehicles when they couldn't kill the vehicle with two weapons. So the damage was boosted so that 1 shot would kill light vehicles. People still kept requesting 2 RLs to be available so we changed it so that one is given for free and second can be upgraded. This, however, put the number of RL rifles back to where it started but they still kept the 1-shot feature against vehicles (which sort made it pointless to upgrade the second one). So we lowered the damage back to where it initially was but increased the critical hit chances. When I say "increased" it doesn't mean that the weapon will crit every single time. There used to be 30% chance to cause some critical hit (damage to tracks, engine, gun etc.), now it is 50%. If it feels like it doesn't crit often enough, we can adjust chances but we're not putting the damage back to "slightly weaker bazooka" level.

- Air Patrol
Air patrols have been removed from all factions as they were generally a no-brainer-kill-everything type of abilities. Especially in AB doctrine, which can now change MP for more Ammo than before, it could become abuseable.

It has been said before - Airborne doctrine hasn't seen many big changes in 5.2.0 because it was considered generally "OK" for 1v1 games. With the changes that the doctrinal reworks brought, this doc might be a bit lacking now but we still plan to make some changes here too. It won't be anything as huge as in Propaganda or TS doc but we'll try to address things that the community sees as the most troubling.

[Constantino]

Regarding air patrol, I think that there should be some sort of auto-targeting airstrike with rockets/bombs to give a more reliable counter to tanks, like the Henschel. Right now, the only way you can reliably kill heavy tanks if your opponent can't be bothered to micro.

Regarding 101 and 82 Airborne, I would be fine with them being on par with Fallschirmjägers, and I would argue that they should be even better combat wise from a balance perspective as Luft not only gets better infantry, but also gets better airstrikes (strafe/Henschel), and better vehicles (Panther D/Wirbelwind).

I may be due to my ignorance, but I currently do not see any reason to pick AB over Inf or Armor. AB inf isn't good, and you can't spam it as easily as Inf, airstrikes arguably aren't much better than the Arty you get in Inf and Armor, and you do not get access to 90 mm gun which is the only reliable counter to Panther/Tigers and up because I would argue that the 76 mm is severely underperforming.

Why should players ever pick AB?

[Redgaarden]

Dont think the jackson in infantry doctrine is a very good counter to Panthers.

And I dont want 101 to be better than falls. This will only make people complain and buff falls to be better again.

I dont see why 101 should have passive camo, I think 82nd would be more suited for it.

And if flame nades return they should have a short fuze. The instant boom is kinda OP since it's very hard to dodge. Like 0.5 secs?

I dont know the stats on RL so I dont have a opinion.

[Krieger Blitzer]

just briefly dropping my thoughts here as i'm short in time:

Against buffing 101st squads, and flame nades shouldn't come back to 101st. in fact... i'm against buffing any Allied inf at all. Axis inf are now much weaker than they used to be in 5.1.7 already. i would even tweak SAS inf as they are currently RAMBOS (specifically in late game after unlocks) who sweep the floor with heavily nerfed Axis infantry now.

Though, i would be fine if 82nd would get passive camo, however.. only with veterancy unlock.

As for jacksons, i would remove them from inf doc and allow them in Airborne doc as reward to Hellcat.
inf doc on the other hand would have 2x (instead of just 1) 76 jumbos at slightly higher price for each.

RL & airstrikes are fine now.

[Diablo]

in fact... i'm against buffing any Allied inf at all. Axis inf are now much weaker than they used to be in 5.1.7 already.

The following is anecdotal and just a single situation, not extensive testing:
Yesterday i send a 5-man Tommy Squad against point capping WH Pioneers. To be fair, they were facing each other, so i wasn't tactically perfect. Whatever, i closed in sprinting without loosing a man, but then in close range standing still the Pio Kar98ks demolished my SMG-equipped Tommies. Both squads were partially in green cover and partially in the open.

In the end, i was retreating 2 badly wound men, both dying while running away. The Pios lost one man and plenty of health on the others..

Conclusion? Big surprise.

[Warhawks97]

just briefly dropping my thoughts here as i'm short in time:

Against buffing 101st squads, and flame nades shouldn't come back to 101st. in fact... i'm against buffing any Allied inf at all. Axis inf are now much weaker than they used to be in 5.1.7 already. i would even tweak SAS inf as they are currently RAMBOS (specifically in late game after unlocks) who sweep the floor with heavily nerfed Axis infantry now.

yes, SAS is strong but first after lots of unlocks and they are the most expensive inf in game.
If you go straight for them you might end up losing them to a Volks squad and lmg.

So, RAF inf is strong late game but really only late game and 50% of unlocks is inf related.

But untill this point you have many ways to get the upper hand as they wont have tanks or even decent anti tank weapons when they only unlock inf stuff.


And luft inf isnt that much weaker, just reach their power peak a bit later.


You should mention at this point that axis is also not the most expensive inf anymore. In fact its cheapest. Volks is the cheapest in the long run out of all main line inf, Storms cost 360 MP and luftwaffe less than 82nd.

So pls mention both of these facts. The situation right now is that axis in outclasses allied inf in many occassions (let it be even pios vs engis. Pios are twice as good as early combat unit, just saying) and are far less micro intense because you can just build up sandbags and use the long range power of these guys.

Though, i would be fine if 82nd would get passive camo, however.. only with veterancy unlock.
As for jacksons, i would remove them from inf doc and allow them in Airborne doc as reward to Hellcat.
inf doc on the other hand would have 2x (instead of just 1) 76 jumbos at slightly higher price for each.

RL & airstrikes are fine now.

with camo and more hellcats AB would be able to handle armor better. The main issue is not the heavy tanks, the main issue are the hordes of medium tanks and the inability to set proper ambushes, esspecially when working behind the lines.

I aint get anything from expensive jacksons when i need to handle a cheap Tank IV or two that are pushing my inf.
The Panther is indeed an issue but again, with ambushes and more Hellcats you could handle them.


And we dont need ever increasing ammounts of Jumbos, Jacks and Pershings.

Srsly. Everywhere people request more/cheaper/earlier available Jumbos/Jacksons/Pershings.
How about fixing the 76 gun? Just saying.

At the end this game will only be all about Elite Tanks like Tigers/Panthers/Jumbos/Jacksons etc which will get cheaper and cheaper just to balance out the next buff of the opponents elite tank buff.

[Tulkas]

The bomber plane is completely useless. No matter how hard you try to place it, the bomb tickles enemy tanks. The airborne groups drop like flies in confrontation with the German troops, no matter how many weapons you upgrade, what does AB have to face the German heavy tanks? I'll tell you when you hear the sound of the 1st tank just run

[MarKr]

The bomber plane is completely useless. No matter how hard you try to place it, the bomb tickles enemy tanks.

The bombing run is intentionally no longer anti-everything. It was said in the changelog for the 5.2.0 update:

Airborne Company
- AB Rocket Air Strike fires 8 rockets (the rockets hit closer to each other, leaving less space for vehicles to dodge getting hit)
- Lowered the strength of bombing runs (mainly effective against static defenses and infantry, lowered effectiveness against tanks)

If we keep Use the bombs against clusters of infantry or emplacements, not against tanks.

The airborne groups drop like flies in confrontation with the German troops, no matter how many weapons you upgrade, what does AB have to face the German heavy tanks?

Depends on usage and the type of Axis infantry you go against. I have a replay where one player used Luft and the opponent had AB. There were mistakes made on the Luft side, no arguing about that, but overall the AB player kept pressuring the Luft quite well. There were even situations where 2 101st squads (1 armed with Garands, the other just basic Carbines) took out Fallshirms with FG42s (or at least caused losses and forced them to retreat), even when the Fallshirms were in green cover and the 101st with Garands had no cover.
Maybe it was just bad luck on the side of Luft. Can you post some replay where you played AB and the infantry seriously underperformed?

[F31.58]

Hellcat limit definetely should be removed. Right now I consider it as low armored stug counter-part, as it has ambush, HE rounds and top machine gun (which you have to pay for sadly).
Question rises - what does stun ability does? I was using it last game against Tiger, still got oneshotted.

[MarKr]

Question rises - what does stun ability does? I was using it last game against Tiger, still got oneshotted.

It is listed in this topic. The first entry in the USA section. It is marked as "Chaffee" but it is the same for Hellcat too. The effect lasts 8 seconds.

[F31.58]

Question rises - what does stun ability does? I was using it last game against Tiger, still got oneshotted.

It is listed in this topic. The first entry in the USA section. It is marked as "Chaffee" but it is the same for Hellcat too. The effect lasts 8 seconds.

wow, I got lucky 10% then, thanks

[MarKr]

wow, I got lucky 10% then, thanks

I don't know what exact situation it was. Tigers fdon't have 100% accuracy at all ranges so it could have been less than 10%. Veterancy gives accuracy bonuses, tank commander gives accuracy bonuses, Tigers also have the Long Range Shot which has 200% accuracy at any range so then it could be more than 10%. As always - many factors could influence the outcome.

[Drushski]

Okay. Yesterday I was very angry at what was done to the airborne doctrine. I played my first game on a small 1x1 map against blitzkrieg doc, and I felt that playing for the WH player felt himself 10 times easier, although initially the goal of the entire update was to make the game stable in 1x1 mode and balanced, but this goal was not achieved, in the case of Airborne made the situation worse. Let's analyze objectively, AirBorne were nerfed specifically for games for 4 or 6 or 8 players, respectively fire grenades were removed , shooting from Johnson's mg on the move was removed, and more critically, patrol aircraft. All these innovations made them critically useless in the late stage of the game. The question - "how do they kill heavy tigers and panthers" remains open. Rockets airstrikes doesn't give the proper result and reliable protection, because sometimes an experienced player will simply dodge all these attacks, controlling panthers is very easy to do. Airstrike is useful against the clumsy Tiger of all modifications including the Tiger 2 and Jagdtiger, which appear very rarely, and experienced players generally avoid them, preferring the maneuverable Panther G and A. As for the oppositions heavy infantry blitzkrieg, for example. Let's see, pumping stormtroopers takes 6 team points at all, which gives them an unsurpassed advantage on the battlefield, perhaps they become the best infantry in the game, while the airborne guys needs 8 points to pump them to the proper level + 2 points for M10 tank against Stugs or Pz 4 or 3 (heavy AT guns don't count, they are too clumsy and go to their flank is not difficult, they can only be useful in the deep rear, in addition, blitz has a good arty in mind panzerwerfer, the same applies to the HT with a 57 mm gun, it will not be difficult to neutralize it with a squad of stormtroopers with a panzerschreck)
Based on all the above, I will ask 2 questions that I do not find an answer to and hope to get it from the developers.
how to resist:
1 - against heavy German tanks?
2 - against heavy German infantry?

PS,
Everything that was previously said by Sukin-Kot about this doctrine, I fully support.

[Drushski]

.

[Redgaarden]

2 - against heavy German infantry

I usually just off map heavy infantry. The 50cal strafing run would probably make little work of any infantry.