Repair Shops/Stations for Allies

[Warhawks97]

I would suggest to add a similiar thing as the Rep Bunker to allis as well. Its super usefull, spares you in the long run to build rep units that get blown up every second arty barrage and makes using Tanks and vehicles extremely easy and relaxing. As long as you park your stuff near to them you dont have to micro tons of rep units arround to repair every scratch and use the engineers to get vehicles running again that are laying in the fields.


Idk how others feel about it, but i would add something like this to allis as well since its a huge effort to keep all the vehicles and tanks you need alive. It makes a smaller army as effective as a larger one simply bc the combat readiness rate of the units you have is much lower.


In general i would suggest that such rep stations would require the rep crew upgrade of a tank producing base building before you can build one in the field.

[Walderschmidt]

I agree with this.

Wald

[Diablo]

Yeah it's a strong feature to have one less tast occupy your mind..

From a quick brainstorm, these were my main thoughts:
- the repair bunker is damn cheap (200MP, thats it)
- you can build however many you can afford, 5.. 10.. doesnt matter, no upkeep, no pop cost
- as far as i can tell, the repair rate isnt slower than that of pioneers
- a downside is their low health, they're easily destroyed

So apart from the Allies missing an auto-repair option alltogether, building repair bunkers is a no brainer.
Possible factors to tweak:
> the price (something in the area of 350MP, some 15F?)
> a build limit of say 2 or 3
> some upkeep (absolutely no idea about upkeep figures, maybe that of an MG42 emplacement?), atleast two pop slots reflecting those repair guys.
> maybe a nerf to the repair rate, so they fix vehicles automatically, but at a pace that doesnt enable constant hit&run attacks
Any combination of the above might be appropriate.

Additionally i always wanted the British armor truck to have deployable repair engineers for 75 Muni like all the other factions.
Also, Axis factions can have up to two tank factories with repair guys, maybe the US armor doctrine could receive that upgrade to their motorpool, too?

Sorry for the slight off-topic
Cheers

Edit: typo

[Warhawks97]

Yeah it's a strong feature to have one less tast occupy your mind..

From a quick brainstorm, these were my main thoughts:
- the repair bunker is damn cheap (200MP, thats it)
- you can build however many you can afford, 5.. 10.. doesnt matter, no upkeep, no pop cost
- as far as i can tell, the repair rate isnt slower than that of pioneers
- a downside is their low health, they're easily destroyed

So apart from the Allies missing an auto-repair option alltogether, building repair bunkers is a no brainer.
Possible factors to tweak:
> the price (something in the area of 350MP, some 15F?)
> a build limit of say 2 or 3
> some upkeep (absolutely no idea about upkeep figures, maybe that of an MG42 emplacement?), atleast two pop slots reflecting those repair guys.
> maybe a nerf to the repair rate, so they fix vehicles automatically, but at a pace that doesnt enable constant hit&run attacks
Any combination of the above might be appropriate.

Additionally i always wanted the British armor truck to have deployable repair engineers for 75 Muni like all the other factions.
Also, Axis factions can have up to two tank factories with repair guys, maybe the US armor doctrine could receive that upgrade to their motorpool, too?

Sorry for the slight off-topic
Cheers

Edit: typo

very good ideas. I thought the same about the cost. You can easily get up two or three, its like building pioneers just that they dont cost upkeep and no micro required.


I would fully agree with the cost increase and the upkeep. I think limit is not needed at first if upkeep would be added.


And idk how it would work for the CW truck. Coz what will happen when it relocates?

[Diablo]

Regarding the CW armor truck engineers: ideally it would handle like the small US inf medic truck. When deployed, two medics spawn and start collecting survivors. They dissappear when the truck gets ready to move again and reappear with the next deployment.

[MarKr]

Making adjustments to the repair bunkers is one way to go but seeing this topic a question comes to mind - should Blitz and Prop doctrines even have them? It is ofcourse possible to limit them to 2-3 per player but in a team game it is quite likely that the team will have at least two, but likely more, of these stations on the map. Wouldn't it be better to just remove it from Blitz and Propaganda and keep it just in Def doc (possibly add it to SE or some PE doctrine)?

[Walderschmidt]

Making adjustments to the repair bunkers is one way to go but seeing this topic a question comes to mind - should Blitz and Prop doctrines even have them? It is ofcourse possible to limit them to 2-3 per player but in a team game it is quite likely that the team will have at least two, but likely more, of these stations on the map. Wouldn't it be better to just remove it from Blitz and Propaganda and keep it just in Def doc (possibly add it to SE or some PE doctrine)?

I'd go the other direction and make them ubiquitous as they eliminate lots of micro that gets in the way of gameplay over time.

Wald

[MarKr]

The thing is that the micro needed to deliver the repairs to your damaged tanks is part of the doctrine design and leaving these stations in so many doctrines makes some changes of rework obsolete. For example one of the ideas behind the re-reworked Tank Support doctrine was that it will provide strong tanks/TDs while having support infantry that can keep up with the tanks and repair them without the need to return to the base which would be one of the reasons why to choose it over BK/Prop docs. This intended advantage simply cannot work if you have repair stations scattered across the entire map by your team mates + it also removes the need to deal with repairs for BK and Prop docs.
(quick note for everyone: this was just an example DON'T start a discussion about "TS doc problems" here, there are separate topics about that already)

And this goes further - Armor doctrine didn't get the Combat Engineers to have some capable combat-infantry, they got the unit so that they have some infantry squad that doesn't die too easily under fire and can repair their damaged tanks (if people don't use them that way is another thing). Now, because all WM docs have repair bunkers, we have this topic about giving that option to Armor doc too which just undermines the reason for Armor doc have the Combat Engineers in the first place.

[Warhawks97]

The thing is that the micro needed to deliver the repairs to your damaged tanks is part of the doctrine design and leaving these stations in so many doctrines makes some changes of rework obsolete. For example one of the ideas behind the re-reworked Tank Support doctrine was that it will provide strong tanks/TDs while having support infantry that can keep up with the tanks and repair them without the need to return to the base which would be one of the reasons why to choose it over BK/Prop docs. This intended advantage simply cannot work if you have repair stations scattered across the entire map by your team mates + it also removes the need to deal with repairs for BK and Prop docs.
(quick note for everyone: this was just an example DON'T start a discussion about "TS doc problems" here, there are separate topics about that already)

And this goes further - Armor doctrine didn't get the Combat Engineers to have some capable combat-infantry, they got the unit so that they have some infantry squad that doesn't die too easily under fire and can repair their damaged tanks (if people don't use them that way is another thing). Now, because all WM docs have repair bunkers, we have this topic about giving that option to Armor doc too which just undermines the reason for Armor doc have the Combat Engineers in the first place.

combat engis cost some 315 MP afterall and a mortar barrage can still whipe them easily. One luck shot or good missile.
A rep bunker costs 200, no MP, no micro and engis respawn after a while.

If only axis keep it, it just enforces camp play bc there will only be TD´s with rep bunkers behind and artillery. And everything gets repaired automatically with no micro or additional investment required. Engis constantly die in arty games so it becomes a though job to keep your units at health and repaired.

So, either we limit these stations to really just a few docs, or more should get it.

If more get it, these things should cost more MP and other res and upkeep.

[Shanks]

Making adjustments to the repair bunkers is one way to go but seeing this topic a question comes to mind - should Blitz and Prop doctrines even have them? It is ofcourse possible to limit them to 2-3 per player but in a team game it is quite likely that the team will have at least two, but likely more, of these stations on the map. Wouldn't it be better to just remove it from Blitz and Propaganda and keep it just in Def doc (possibly add it to SE or some PE doctrine)?

The repair bunker is easier to destroy than an engineer squad, I find it funny what you say...
In addition, American tanks can repair themselves on the battlefield, and they have special armor engineers who repair your tanks super fast.

[MarKr]

a mortar barrage can still whipe them easily. One luck shot or good missile.

By "doesn't die too easily" I meant when bullets start to fly around, not arty. Any infantry can get wiped by a lucky shot from arty/mortar (maybe except for elites with damge-reducing unlocks) and repair units even more so because when repairing they are all close to each other and take extra damage.

The repair bunker is easier to destroy than an engineer squad, I find it funny what you say...

I didn't say the bunkers are too hard to destroy or anything. I said that repair bunkers are in every WM doctrine and because of that there is now a request to give something similar to the armor doc but armor doc was given the Combat Engineers to do repairs - so if armor doc gets some repair station too, then there was no point in giving them the combat engineers.

In addition, American tanks can repair themselves on the battlefield, and they have special armor engineers who repair your tanks super fast.

Yes, but the self-repair costs ammo every time you use it and the "armor engineers" are just a 3-men squad with no weapons and so they are super easy to kill even by one burst from an MG.

[Warhawks97]

Making adjustments to the repair bunkers is one way to go but seeing this topic a question comes to mind - should Blitz and Prop doctrines even have them? It is ofcourse possible to limit them to 2-3 per player but in a team game it is quite likely that the team will have at least two, but likely more, of these stations on the map. Wouldn't it be better to just remove it from Blitz and Propaganda and keep it just in Def doc (possibly add it to SE or some PE doctrine)?

The repair bunker is easier to destroy than an engineer squad, I find it funny what you say...
In addition, American tanks can repair themselves on the battlefield, and they have special armor engineers who repair your tanks super fast.

the bunkers stay relatively safe, are many and take perhaps damage. but its engis respawn in case they die and they have a pretty big radius in which they get activated for repairs. I doubt rep bunkers die by a single mortar hit or bullets. And as long as it doesnt happen, they respawn free.


The US self repair is whole different thing. It costs ammo, vet 1 and you cant use or reactivate your tanks as long as its active. So it might become a death trap instead whe situation on the field changes quick.

On top its still not as brainless as to put rep bunkers here and there and everything goes automatically. You still have to drive to a save spot and when there, activate it.
And it doesnt rep any of your vehicles. So a 200 MP investment keeps all your vehicles and tanks repaired and in the game and you have to do nothing as getting your vehicles close enough to it (which is not hard to do).


So its about the micro one side got/one does not. And the already micro intense allied which have to micro everything, from skirmish to attack to defense have also lots of "logistical managment" to do if i call it this way.

[Shanks]

a mortar barrage can still whipe them easily. One luck shot or good missile.

By "doesn't die too easily" I meant when bullets start to fly around, not arty. Any infantry can get wiped by a lucky shot from arty/mortar (maybe except for elites with damge-reducing unlocks) and repair units even more so because when repairing they are all close to each other and take extra damage.

The repair bunker is easier to destroy than an engineer squad, I find it funny what you say...

I didn't say the bunkers are too hard to destroy or anything. I said that repair bunkers are in every WM doctrine and because of that there is now a request to give something similar to the armor doc but armor doc was given the Combat Engineers to do repairs - so if armor doc gets some repair station too, then there was no point in giving them the combat engineers.

In addition, American tanks can repair themselves on the battlefield, and they have special armor engineers who repair your tanks super fast.

Yes, but the self-repair costs ammo every time you use it and the "armor engineers" are just a 3-men squad with no weapons and so they are super easy to kill even by one burst from an MG.

ok